New DM: What do I need?

[BudgetDM]

After wanting to start a game of D&D for sometime, I managed to get three players together. However, I've hit a snag. A snag shaped like a dollar sign. Neither I nor any of my players are exactly rolling in the dough, and to make matters worse, I have never played any role playing game before, so I don't know what we need.

So I am asking you, forum mates, what what would you say is the minimum required books and accessories (for both players and DM) to run a 4E D&D game?

P.S. Any suggestions for cheap (but legal) places to acquire the aforementioned books and accessories will be much appreciated.

[EndlessWrath]

I play on a Gridsheet of paper. Using coins,legos, and other game pieces.

What you really need is this:
The rulebook: So... 4th Edition PHB
Dice: Can't really roll damage and whatnot without them.
Paper: Cheap
Pencil: Cheap.

I'd also suggest the Monster Manual...just to help. My first dungeon was .. recognizably more difficult after customizing dm made monsters.

-Wrath

Edit: I've seen Dice go on for $3->8 and I've seen 4e books range from $20 -> $35

If your paying over 30 its a scandal >.>. But I do suggest getting the book, because it survives a multitude of games...it is well worth the money if you use it.

You can also start with a free dungeon online.. they have loads of em downloadable. I started a premade dungeon till I got on my feet. That way you also get an idea what kind of monsters and how to stat them out if you don't get the Monster Manual. Finally... You can always grab a beginners box. Less options.. and it really runs itself once or twice...but you get miniatures, Dice, a limited PHB, and a map. Now, I know I couldn't do 4 players with just one set of dice.. but thats me.

I do suggest the first route though. PHB 4.0. A set of dice or two. I'd get one set for everyone...but thats budgetwise. Pencil, and Paper.

[Tyndmyr]

Typically, you need the PHB and DMG as a minimum. If you're not stuck on 4E, you can get all the core 3.5 stuff free online from the SRD.

If your friends already have 4e books, that can help too.

You need dice. At least one full set, plus extra of typical damage dice like D6s. You can klepto those from other games, though.

If it's 4E, you *need* a battle grid. A large sheet of construction paper or foamcore and a magic marker can make you a cheap substitute for the $40 dry erase maps. Use 1" squares.

Pencil and paper, for keeping track of stuff.

Dungeon master screen is touted as required by some, but honestly, I never bother with it. It does have lots of handy reference stuff, but it's not actually required.

[oxybe]

check my sig for lots of free goodies.

character sheet
click on the link for the WotC one, but you may want to shop around or may your own. this is preference.

free dice
click on dice link. not the most customizable online dice, but it works.

free battlemat:
Graph Paper link > Squares > Graph paper > Grid spacing 1 line/inch > Download PDF & print

keep the default settings to get a 1/4 inch graph paper, great for mapping.

Minis:
download the token maker program and if you don't have an image manipulation software (like photosho), i've got a link to the free GIMP program.

Players
Free Maps & portraits link > PC portraits > find & save appropriate mugshot. open the token maker, align the pic properly & save.

Monsters
the 3.5 srd link has a bunch of monster pictures, but google works fine > save it, token maker, align & save.

now, open up the image manipulation software, create a new document 8 x 11 inches, copy/paste the tokens onto your sheet (number multiples of the same, like Goblin 1,2,3,4,5,ect...) and print.

so yeah, the poor man's D&D. all you need is a printer, some ink & paper.

[Tyndmyr]

Yeah, 3.5 is a *lot* cheaper to play.

In addition to all the free goodies from the SRD, you can do without map and minis(4E is much more map/mini based).

Oh, and books for 3.x are *much* cheaper now. Even the local stores have them at 30% off or more, and online is even better. I've picked up a coupla lots for under $10/book.

[Berserk Monk]

After wanting to start a game of D&D for sometime, I managed to get three players together. However, I've hit a snag. A snag shaped like a dollar sign. Neither I nor any of my players are exactly rolling in the dough, and to make matters worse, I have never played any role playing game before, so I don't know what we need.

So I am asking you, forum mates, what what would you say is the minimum required books and accessories (for both players and DM) to run a 4E D&D game?

P.S. Any suggestions for cheap (but legal) places to acquire the aforementioned books and accessories will be much appreciated.

They have downloadable pdf's online for all the 3.5 books. Just do a google search.

[Tyndmyr]

He did specify "cheap (but legal)".

[Gralamin]

In addition to all the free goodies from the SRD, you can do without map and minis(4E is much more map/mini based).

Which you can still use paper and a pencil to work with. Map/mini is just faster.

[Ozreth]

A big piece of grid paper
dice
something to represent players/monsters (minis, coins, beads, tokens)
character sheets
pencils
DM screen (folded cardboard)
At least the PHB and DMG which can be found for cheap used or just download PDF versions
An adventure, tons of free ones online, or write your own.
Mountain Dew

[Berserk Monk]

He did specify "cheap (but legal)".

Downloading anything off the internet may or may not be legal? Next thing you'll be telling me is that Belkar isn't Lawful Good.

[Tyndmyr]

Which you can still use paper and a pencil to work with. Map/mini is just faster.

True. Heck, you can use papercraft terrain/models if you feel up to it. I've got a friend who is amazing with that stuff.

If you're sufficiently creative, nearly any hobby can become quite cheap.

[BRC]

The Bear Necessities:
Books, Pencils, Paper, Dice. A place to play, a group of awesome people, imagination, and a trained Canadian War Moose.

[Berserk Monk]

The Bear Necessities:
Books, Pencils, Paper, Dice. A place to play, a group of awesome people, imagination, and a trained Canadian War Moose.

You play D&D with bears? Awesome. But maybe you should tell him about the bare necessities he'll need.

[oxybe]

Yeah, 3.5 is a *lot* cheaper to play.

In addition to all the free goodies from the SRD, you can do without map and minis(4E is much more map/mini based).

Oh, and books for 3.x are *much* cheaper now. Even the local stores have them at 30% off or more, and online is even better. I've picked up a coupla lots for under $10/book.

actually, you're missing quite a bit to play 3rd ed for free. the XP & rewards tables for one. you still need the core books, which while cheaper, are harder to find if you don't have access to Amazon or another online retailer.

we've got 3 bundled sets of 3.0 books in our FLGS, but no 3.5 ones, which is a bit of pain for our ranger's player, who never did the "upgrade" and is playing off a photocopied SRD ranger. the books are no longer in print and while 4th ed is my system of choice, i'm not ready to drop my 3rd ed group.

as for 4th ed being more map/mini based, it's possible to play it without the map. if you were able to do so in previous editions (which all had their own measurements and reliances on distance & cover, so you had to do some hand-waving) you can do the same in 4th. you're probably not going to get the "full experience" but it's the same in any version of D&D where you ignore or just guesstimate/eyeball some rules.

[BRC]

You play D&D with bears? Awesome. But maybe you should tell him about the bare necessities he'll need.

Of course. That's what the War Moose is for, to fight them off.

[Tyndmyr]

I still actually own a 3.0 Phb...never bothered to upgrade to 3.5. The differences aren't that excessive, and for a casual game, generally don't matter much anyhow.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/treasure.h...esperEncounter

Experience is missing, but http://www.penpaperpixel.org/tools/d...calculator.htm solves most encounter issues. That leaves a whopping two tables missing...xp required to level, and xp per encounter. Neither are terribly hard to pick up.

4E is much more grid dependent than previous editions. You've got all sorts of powers that are very dependant upon exactly how people are positioned. In 3.x, it rarely was more important than "how many can I fit under the fireball".

[Salty]

Like others have said, you may want to consider something other than 4E. 3.5 is good, but I'd recommend Pathfinder. The rules are online in their SRD, their character sheets are on their site, and you can buy the books as .PDFs for $10 each. The PHB may seem a tad expensive at $50 for a physical copy, but it's cheaper on Amazon, and it includes content that would normally be found in both the Player's Handbook and the Dungeon Master's Guide.

As far as dice go, you could probably get a few pretty cheap sets if you know where to look. Otherwise, you could easily use a digital set instead. Several are available online, and I found it was quite simple to program one myself on a graphing calculator. Additionally, if anyone has access to an iPhone or an iPod Touch, there are quite a few dice-rolling apps, some of which are free.

As for minis, I decided to save money by making OotS-Style characters on my computer, and printing out the results. You can see my full description here, or see some other examples here.

Good luck on your game, PM me if I was unclear on anything.

[dragonfan6490]

Downloading anything off the internet may or may not be legal? Next thing you'll be telling me is that Belkar isn't Lawful Good.

Wait. Belkar isn't Lawful Good? When did this happen? I thought all "Sexy Shoeless Gods of War were Lawful Good . I think my world just shattered.

[BudgetDM]

The Bear Necessities:
Books, Pencils, Paper, Dice. A place to play, a group of awesome people, imagination, and a trained Canadian War Moose.

Books: I'll see if I can get the group to go in together for a PHB. I'll might end up buying the DMG and MM myself, cause this was my idea so I feel that the majority of the cost should be paid buy me.

Pencils: check. Pencils with erasers: Less of a check.

Dice: As of now I have one d10. I should probably get more.

A place to play: Fun fact, I actually live in parents basement. So place to play AND stereotype: check

A group of awesome people: looking good so far.

Imagination: I knew I was missing something. CUSRE YOU INORDINATE AMOUNTS OF TELEVISION. The Oompa Loompa were right, TV does destroy your imagination.

Trained Canadian War Moose: Well, I know some people from Canada so I might be able to get a second hand War Moose.

I also probably should have been more clear that I'm fairly set on 4E. I've looked into the whole 4E vs. 3.XE vs. Pathfinder thing and 4E is more of what I want to do, so I'm willing to pay a extra for it. I'm just trying to minimize the extra.

P.S.
oxybe those links are awesome.

[Siosilvar]

CUSRE YOU INORDINATE AMOUNTS OF TELEVISION. The Umpa Lumpa were right, TV does destroy your imagination.

'Tis Oompa Loompas.

[Anonomuss]

There's always the very easy, very cheap way of starting off playing 4th edition.

Get a few dice, making sure you've a d20, d12, d8, d6 and d4, some graph paper, and some scrap paper. Then, take your browser and visit the following:
http://wizards.com/dnd/TryDnD.aspx

It gives you:
-The basic rules of DnD 4e
-Sample Characters
(Actually try here: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Tool.aspx...charactersheet)
-A full, and reasonably fun adventure, which will take the characters from 1st to 3rd level.
-An additional adventure introducing your characters to a different campaign setting.

You don't need any more to get started really, and it's 100% legal.

From there I'd advise getting a player's handbook, a monster manual and a dungeon masters guide, in that order. It'll expand where you can take your adventures from there.

After that, of course it get's more complicated, but long before you've expended the resources above, you'll have decided if DnD 4e is really for you.

EDIT: Ah... ninja'd by a long distance.

[oxybe]

i see TV also affects the spelling part of the brain ;)

anywhoo, i checked amazon and they're selling one of the sets (PHB, MM, DMG) for 60$ used.

i would recommend getting all 3 books. the PHB has all the rules needed to play the game and the MM is a book full of pre-made killing things, but the DMG is a real gem in the rough.

while it contains a bunch of rules like DM toolkit: traps, monster modifications, artifacts, ect... it's a book of solid advice that goes into player motivation, DM style, storytelling, ect... how to run a game. if you don't want to buy it, at least borrow one from a library for a bit (if they have D&D books. some do, others don't).

[oxybe]

another thing to note:

check out the free 3rd ed modules & the free 4th ed ones in the test drive links in my sig.

this should give you a few examples of adventure design to work with and really aren't that hard to convert over. for this, i would recommend "reskinning" monsters a bit. if a low-level 3rd ed module asks for an ogre (which are) reskin an orc, make him large and call him an ogre. they fill the same archetype: big, lightly armored facesmashers.

[Delwugor]

Have your players played before?

If not then no one in your group really knows if they will even like gaming or not. Instead of paying for games and systems when people aren't even sure then I'd suggest some of the free D&D clones.

The one I recommend most is Microlite20. It is basically a very light version of D&D 3.5 and 100% free.
You will probably need some more when it comes to GMing though. You might try some GMing sites to help you out. Even after *many* years of playing and GMing I still go to Roleplayingtips.com for advice and for some initial ideas of getting started this site might be usefull.

[BudgetDM]

Have your players played before?

If not then no one in your group really knows if they will even like gaming or not. Instead of paying for games and systems when people aren't even sure then I'd suggest some of the free D&D clones.

The one I recommend most is Microlite20. It is basically a very light version of D&D 3.5 and 100% free.
You will probably need some more when it comes to GMing though. You might try some GMing sites to help you out. Even after *many* years of playing and GMing I still go to Roleplayingtips.com for advice and for some initial ideas of getting started this site might be usefull.

I know one member of my group has played before, but that's a good point. Maybe I'll start with a one shot free adventure before I bust open my piggy bank for what I expect to be the first of many books.

[Tyndmyr]

Pencils: check. Pencils with erasers: Less of a check.

Just never make a mistake and you'll be fine. =)

Trained Canadian War Moose: Well, I know some people from Canada so I might be able to get a second hand War Moose.

Good, the war moose is not optional.

[Katana_Geldar]

Can we have a stop to convincing people to play other editions than the ones they are prepared to play? He wants to play 4E and is asking us for help with that, trying to convince him to play another edition is pretty harsh.

Dice you can pick up cheap from teacher's supply shops as long as you don't mind a lack of colours, same with grid paper though you can so some up on a spreadsheet program for next to nothing (just don't ask me how).

For minis, get some cheap game tokens counters, tores etc (also from a teacher's shop, these shops are heaven for gamers on a budget ). You also may need coloured rubber bands for various conditions (dazed, bloodied etc).

Try and find a cheap calculator, as it helps when adding up rather difficult things (like the effect rituals have as well as spells that have multipliers and stuff added on at the end) but don't use it all the time.

And if you want a screen, tape a few binders (about three or four) together and tape the various tables and diagrams you think you'll need on the inside. You also may want another folder for your notes and things, as it's going to get HUGE with all your campaign material.

Little notebooks and pencils are quite good too, and remind players to write on their character sheets in pencil as sooner or later you're going to rub it out. It also means you can reuse the sheets if they're not too grubby.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Can we have a stop to convincing people to play other editions than the ones they are prepared to play? He wants to play 4E and is asking us for help with that, trying to convince him to play another edition is pretty harsh.

He mentions 4e once and D&D twice, and does not own the 4e books. He has never played RPGs before. I have difficulty believing that he wants to play 4E, specifically, compared to any other edition.

[Katana_Geldar]

So I am asking you, forum mates, what what would you say is the minimum required books and accessories (for both players and DM) to run a 4E D&D game?

I'd say that's pretty self-evident, and 4E isn't a bad way to come in to D&D, despite some people's prejudices against it.

But this is all beside the point, my suggestions stand.

[AslanCross]

I'd say that's pretty self-evident, and 4E isn't a bad way to come in to D&D, despire some people's prejudices against it.

I don't like forcing people to play other editions either, but his problem is that he doesn't have the money to buy the books. If 3.5 and other derivatives have options that don't require as much money as 4E, which generally isn't being sold at discounts due to being new. "Not having money" seems like a more significant hurdle to getting into RPGs than "I want to play this edition."