Bardbarian

[shadow_archmagi]

So, some time ago, I was playing Dungeons and Dragons Online with some friends, one of them with the username "Barbalute"

Barbalute played a Bard, but my friend suggested he multiclass and take a level of barbarian, making him barbalute the bardbarian witha lute.

So, now, in the current game I'm in, I'm an artificer/factotum6, my teammate is a wizard/cleric6 (gestalt) and I'm thinking of taking Leadership.

While there are only the two PCs, my friend has an army of undead, and I was thinking a Bard-barian NPC could:

1. Buff the small horde (20ish skelies)
2. Provide a bit of tanking.
3. Be a great source of comic relief. Imagine Thog and Elan combined!

EDIT: Oh right I forgot to mention the POINT of the thread:

I've only ever made one bard and that bard was absolutely awful and achieved nothing and I have no barbarian experience.

[Gorbash]

While there are only the two PCs, my friend has an army of undead, and I was thinking a Bard-barian NPC could:
1. Buff the small horde (20ish skelies)

No, he couldn't. Inspire Courage/Greatness/etc is a mind-affecting ability, to which undead are immune to.

[Cieyrin]

The only problem I see with your plan is mindless undead aren't affected by morale effects like Inspire Courage and whatnot. You'd need the Requiem feat to do so.

Otherwise, Bardarians are fun and then some. Probably more barbarian than bard is a good mix. The key with the barbarian side is Power Attack and the like to increase damage output to extreme levels. The bard part will probably focus on Inspire Courage, which means things like the Badge of Valor, Song of the Heart, Vest of Legends and other Inspire Courage enhancers.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

[KitTheOdd]

Bardbarian is fun, but if you are mostly looking to increase the melee ability of the bard try the Tome of Battle.

With Song of the White Raven, either Crusader or Warblade can Inspire Courage just as well as a Bard of the same level. You could refluff for the barbarian feel.

Look here http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130199 for more ideas.

[Ravens_cry]

The only problem I see with your plan is mindless undead aren't affected by morale effects like Inspire Courage and whatnot. You'd need the "Requiem" feat to do so.

Oh Gods, that sounds awesome.
A small pale child with dark curls in a black hooded cloak skips and dances
ahead of a hoard of skeletons while playing a flute.

[Cieyrin]

Oh Gods, that sounds awesome.
A small pale child with dark curls in a black hooded cloak skips and dances
ahead of a hoard of skeletons while playing a flute.

Heh, certainly has the bard part of it, if not the barbarian portion.

[Ravens_cry]

Heh, certainly has the bard part of it, if not the barbarian portion.

The feat, man, the feat. Either a multi class, or gestalt, cleric/bard for musical undead controlling and buffing, deadly cute, gothic action.
*squee!*

[Darrin]

I've only ever made one bard and that bard was absolutely awful and achieved nothing and I have no barbarian experience.

Start with a Desert Half-Orc (+2 Con, -2 Int, no Cha penalty). Add the Magic-Blooded template if available (+2 Cha, -2 Wis, Dragon #306, details on Crystalkeep under 3.0 templates). Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Bard 4 to start with (or Barb 2/Bard 3 if you play with multiclass penalties). If you like, you can add the City Brawler Barbarian variant (Dragon #349) for Improved Unarmed Strike, TWF (unarmed only), and reduced -2 improvised penalty.

From there, you can go into the Battle Howler of Gruumsh PrC (Dragon #311). Full BAB, full Bard caster levels, all melee/armor proficiency, and more rage.

The biggest drawback is rage and spellcasting go together like caltrop sandwiches. You can mitigate this somewhat by going into the Rage Mage PrC. Otherwise, focus on Dragonfire Inspiration + Inspire Courage. Add Song of the White Raven for BardBariaBlade.

[UglyPanda]

There's an Emo Undead-loving Prestige Class for Bards called Dirgesinger in LM as well. From what I remember, it's not too good, but it's amusing to give to enemies.

Rage Mage is a trap. Don't do it. You lose music and get half-progression on your spells.

Bardbarian doesn't have good synergy with itself. It's fun, but isn't useful. You can't sing (or cast spells) while raging, so you have to let that "Five rounds after he stops..." do most of the work. Both classes eat feats like candy, so you're not going to get the best out of either.

If you want to optimize Inspire Courage (Or Dragonfire Inspiration), then you'll need the following: Song of the heart (Feat, some Eberron book), Vest of Legends (Item, DMGII), Inspirational Boost (Spell, Spell Compendium). If you manage to be exalted, then go for Words of Creation (Feat, Book of Exalted Deeds), it doubles your already-boosted Inspire Courage bonus.

If you want to be a skill-monkey, then Improvision (Spell Compendium), Bardic Knack (Alt Class Feature, PHBII), and Jack-of-all-trades (Can't remember) are useful.

I can't really remember too much off the top of my head.

[Darrin]

Rage Mage is a trap. Don't do it. You lose music and get half-progression on your spells.

Yes, I forgot to mention: just take Arcane Strike, and just use your spells to buff your damage. Works very well with the Whirling Frenzy rage variant and Snowflake Wardance.

Also, are you sure about not being able to use Inspire Courage while raging? Inspire Courage does not require concentration nor does it require a Perform check.

[Hashmir]

Bardbarian doesn't have good synergy with itself. It's fun, but isn't useful. You can't sing (or cast spells) while raging, so you have to let that "Five rounds after he stops..." do most of the work. Both classes eat feats like candy, so you're not going to get the best out of either.

You can't sing while raging? I thought you could use any of the songs that don't require a Perform check, since they're not technically using a Cha-based skill.

[KitTheOdd]

You can't sing (or cast spells) while raging, so you have to let that "Five rounds after he stops..." do most of the work.

That is only true for some songs. Inspire Courage (the bread and butter of a bardbarian) is NOT among the songs that require a concentration check and are therefore perfectly allowable during a rage.

The only problems comes in making sure that your choice of Perform is compatible with melee. Sing/Chant/Oratory all work. Strings and woodwinds...not so much. :)

edit: partial ninja'd

[Cieyrin]

Rage Mage is a trap. Don't do it. You lose music and get half-progression on your spells.

Champion of Gwynharyf, on the other hand, is excellent for rage casting. It has it's own casting though and only rage casts with those, which leaves you high and dry for bardic casting, unfortunately. =/

Bardbarian doesn't have good synergy with itself. It's fun, but isn't useful. You can't sing (or cast spells) while raging, so you have to let that "Five rounds after he stops..." do most of the work. Both classes eat feats like candy, so you're not going to get the best out of either.

You can sing while raging, you just can't do anything that requires concentration. This disallows Fascinate, Suggestion, Song of Freedom and Mass Suggestion but Inspire Courage, Inspire Competence, Inspire Greatness and Inspire Heroics are all still fair game for the raging bard, which is what we care about here, anyways (well, maybe not Inspire Competance but *shrug*).

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

EDIT: partially ninja'd as well.

[UglyPanda]

I misread it, I guess. You still can't cast spells (buffs and such) though.

Bards gets ACF in medium armor (But Mithral Breastplate works for some reason). It's not a big deal, but it was on my mind.

The thing about anything involving Bards is that you always have the fallback of Bluff+Glibness. No matter how you screw up your character, you can always lie about it.

[kladams707]

"But Mithral Breastplate"

Medium armor made from mithral=light armor.

[UglyPanda]

I know. But it gives several people headaches until they can wrap their minds around it.

The Bard suddenly becomes proficient in a type of armor just because it weighs less than it did before.

[Cieyrin]

I know. But it gives several people headaches until they can wrap their minds around it.

The Bard suddenly becomes proficient in a type of armor just because it weighs less than it did before.

meh, I'm of the school of mind that they're still not proficient despite it being one category lighter b/c, damn it, barbarians shouldn't be running about in mithral full plate b/c they're proficient with Medium Armor.

[jeek]

Snow Flake Wardance from Frostburn is kind of like rage for a bard, right?

[Cieyrin]

Snow Flake Wardance from Frostburn is kind of like rage for a bard, right?

It's superficially a rage, though it has more in common with Dervish than Barbarian, really.