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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default [3.5] Long-range archer build

    I'd like to build a long-range archer to mess with my PC's a bit, but I realized I really don't know how to build one. All the archers I've built are pretty much swift hunters.

    What I'd like is the following:
    - Mid-level, 10-12
    - Able to deal damage at ranges of at least 2 range increments without too much difficulty; ability to stay away from melee combat is of low priority since he's got mooks
    - No/low reliance on magic or psionics to deal damage. Ranger casting or a dip in psychic warrior for the Psionic Shot chain is fine, a zen archery cleric is not
    - Assume that houseruled Spot rules negates the need for pumping Spot checks to insane levels
    - Single-shot/sniper fits what I have in mind better, but volley archery is fine as well

    What I was thinking is something along the lines of Ranger5/Psychic Warrior2/Deepwoods Sniper4, being able to Greater Psionic Shot during the opening and then going into Rapid Shot volleys. But like I said I really don't know what I'm doing here.
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Long-range archer build

    See hide rules, spot rules. Sniping rules in particular. Those distance penalties to spot are actually critical for good sniping. You need them to overcome your -20 penalty to hide. 200 feet or so will do that quite nicely. So it's easy. Get some range, pull out your bow and go to town on the poor PCs. who won't know where the baddy is firing from. Not until after multiple painful rounds of guessing at the general direction and finally getting close enough to make their spot checks. Even if the archer has a penalty to hit (which you can reduce), the PCs will be having a hard time when the enemy can attack and they can't.

    PCs walking down a path, OTOH, are automatically seen, no house rules required. If anything it's a flat DC 0 check no matter how many ranks the target has in hide. You must have cover or concealment to hide. You can't "turn on stealth mode" like some video game and travel that way. Unless traveling through forest undergrowth and not on a trail at all. But undergrowth slows you down considerably, and then that amount is halved again for sneaking. 10 day journey is now a 40 day journey. Will the PCs really do that? Well, maybe they could pull a Lord of the Rings and make it 20 days going through the forest without hiding, but if they're unlucky enough to stumble within 200-400 feet (or w/e the visible range in a forest is) of anything then it'll easily see them.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-11-02 at 06:11 PM.
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    Volos's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Long-range archer build

    Give your archer a +1 greatbow of distance. Distance doubles the range of any given ranged weapon. The enchantment bonus will give him a little bit of an edge as well as half the number of range increments he will have to deal with. With a +1 greatbow of distance you would have 240ft range increments, and with a +1 composite greatbow of distance you would have 260ft range increments.

    (Complete Warrior pg 154)
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Long-range archer build

    If you want to get really ridiculous, there was a thread recently that got range increments of thousands of feet, with minimal penalties for firing that far.

    But I assume you want your PCs to talk to you again after they encounter this sniper.

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    Darrin's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Long-range archer build

    Quote Originally Posted by Gametime View Post
    If you want to get really ridiculous, there was a thread recently that got range increments of thousands of feet, with minimal penalties for firing that far.
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Long-range archer build

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Dragonwrought Kobold + Distant Shot [epic] + PsyWar/Expansion + Hulking Hurler: throw your opponent onto the surface of the sun.
    Haha yea, I know about that.

    I'm more interested in a decent build, and really that's what I need help with, though thanks for the other advice. I know how to get plenty of damage on melee or swift hunters, just not long-range archers. Or is favored enemy + Knowledge Devotion + Rapid Fire pretty much as far as it goes?
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    Crafty Cultist's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Long-range archer build

    I beleive the cragtop archer(races of stone) might be worth a look
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    Akal Saris's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Long-range archer build

    Ranger is actually pretty decent for this, since you need a high Spot check anyhow.

    Check BG for the archer's handbook, by Eldariel (who also frequents these forums).
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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Long-range archer build

    Quote Originally Posted by Akal Saris View Post

    Check BG for the archer's handbook, by Eldariel (who also frequents these forums).
    From the quick glance, that Archery Handbook is an amazing reference. As to some feats of the top of my head, the "Races of the Wild" source book is great when it comes to archery. Things like "Able Sniper" and "Woodland Archer" are fantastic for long rang sniping while staying hidden. "Improved Precise Shot" from CompWar lets you ignore partial cover and partial concealment.
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    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Long-range archer build

    Going strait sniper variant Scout should work fine. Found here on page 160.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Long-range archer build

    Quote Originally Posted by sebsmith View Post
    Going strait sniper variant Scout should work fine. Found here on page 160.
    This works incredibly well with improved precise shot since only total cover/concealment benefits the target's AC, so the sniping damage would still apply
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Long-range archer build

    Quote Originally Posted by ghashxx View Post
    This works incredibly well with improved precise shot since only total cover/concealment benefits the target's AC, so the sniping damage would still apply
    Eh... it's a pretty pathetic amount of extra damage, and you have to "see the target well enough to pick a vital spot," which is problematic.

    What I've got:
    Ranger2/Fighter4/Deepwood Sniper6
    Str12 Dex20 Con16 Int15 Wis14 Cha10
    Feats: PBS, Far Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Ranged Weapon Mastery, Woodland Archer, Knowledge Devotion
    +1 force composite(+1) dragonbone longbow, range increment 380feet and only -1 per range increment (swiftwing arrows)
    So attack routine is +21/21/16/11 with 1d6+10/19-20x4, and if he misses an attack all others that round gain a +4 [does this continue to stack as long as you keep missing?]

    Anyone see anything else that could improve this?
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Long-range archer build

    Ed: drat. curse my lack of patience allowing me to be so stupidly ninja'd.

    Hmm... Seems ok. I'd have to refresh myself with Deepwoods Sniper to be able to really grasp it properly though.
    Last edited by Coidzor; 2009-11-02 at 11:29 PM.
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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Long-range archer build

    Quote Originally Posted by lsfreak View Post
    Eh... it's a pretty pathetic amount of extra damage, and you have to "see the target well enough to pick a vital spot," which is problematic.

    What I've got:
    Ranger2/Fighter4/Deepwood Sniper6
    Str12 Dex20 Con16 Int15 Wis14 Cha10
    Feats: PBS, Far Shot, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Ranged Weapon Mastery, Woodland Archer, Knowledge Devotion
    +1 force composite(+1) dragonbone longbow, range increment 380feet and only -1 per range increment (swiftwing arrows)
    So attack routine is +21/21/16/11 with 1d6+10/19-20x4, and if he misses an attack all others that round gain a +4 [does this continue to stack as long as you keep missing?]

    Anyone see anything else that could improve this?
    I'd try for higher Strength. Unlike Swift Hunters, martial archers really rely on Str to maximize their damage output. I made a Level 20 Fighter Archer for Tarrasque hunt recently and actually focused on Str on level-ups; with stuff like Knowledge Devotion & Ranged Weapon Mastery, your To Hit will be through the roof anyways so you can generally afford to pump your Str.

    Con isn't that important for archers either as you'll have good Hit Dice and Fort-progressions and yet spend most of your time out of trouble. I suggest you swap your Str and Con (or rather, toss the 12 to Int or Wis, 14/15 to Con and 16 to Str). I'd also strongly consider a medium race; size increases make for a decent source of extra damage, particularly with a Greatbow. 1d10 grows to 2d8 then 3d8; this requires Enlarge & Strongarm Bracers.


    A great way to increase the damage is to dip one level of Barbarian, pick up Whirling Frenzy and Extra Rage [CWar] (twice if you feel the need). Whirling Frenzy gives you an extra attack, which is incredibly useful for obvious reasons, and the Str-increase means you can use a higher Str bow (best have an adjusting bow like Bow of Winterymoon [MiC] or Energy Bow [WoTC site], though just a second bow works too, of course).

    Since you're using 3.0 material, it's worthwhile to try and fit 3 levels of Peerless Archer [Silver Marches] in there too, to get Power Shot. If you do, feel free to keep pumping Dex as it allows nice conversion of To Hit to damage (which makes your feats much more live, as stuff like Improved Rapid Shot suddenly becomes useful). Ultimately, I'd continue with your chosen path (don't forget that if you have a party member capable of casting Minor/Major Creation, you could make great use of some poisons; you can also craft them yourself without being entirely drowned), tossing the one Barbarian-level in before Deepwood Sniper, and do a small recursion to Peerless Archer to pick up Power Shot.


    You may want Education [PGtF] to truly make use of Knowledge Devotion, though it'll hurt your other handy skills (Hide/Spot in particular). And yeah, one level dip in Cragtop Archer might be useful.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2009-11-03 at 03:36 AM.
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