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2009-11-03, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
This is based on 3.5 fluff, for the record.
As the title says, evil wizards live forever as liches, but there isn't a good way for wizards to live forever? Why can't I cheat death and still be a good guy? What if I want to go beyond "my" time using ultra-cool, ultra-powerful magic to protect the weak and help give to the poor?
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2009-11-03, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Location
- The great state of denial
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
Baelnorns. Liches for good people.
Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.
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2009-11-03, 05:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
- Location
- Some kind of hell
- Gender
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
They become Elminster.
Cuz liches are b!*#$%.
-X
P.S. Or they cast wish for life extension. Good people are okay with spending XP to keep living. Or some wonky Epic Magic. Evil wizards always take the quick and dirty way out.Last edited by ErrantX; 2009-11-03 at 05:41 PM.
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2009-11-03, 05:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
Good wizards become liches and mindrape themselves back to Good. Oh, wait, I meant neutral wizards. w/e
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2009-11-03, 05:43 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Location
- The great state of denial
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
Technically, being good and becoming a lich doesn't make you evil. They just tend not to do it. There's a good lich template for those blokes.
Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.
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2009-11-03, 05:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
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2009-11-03, 05:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
Last edited by hamishspence; 2009-11-03 at 05:46 PM.
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2009-11-03, 05:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2008
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
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2009-11-03, 05:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Location
- The great state of denial
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.
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2009-11-03, 05:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2008
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2009-11-03, 05:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Location
- The great state of denial
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.
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2009-11-03, 05:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2009
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
Good wizards live forever as fond memories and legends!
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2009-11-03, 05:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Gender
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2009-11-03, 05:57 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
I think the good liches are called... Archliches?
trill in da playground
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2009-11-03, 05:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
- Location
- Somewhere in time...
- Gender
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
Why would a good wizard want to live forever anyhow? They'd be putting off their eternal reward, so the only reason I can see them wanting to do this, is if there is no other choice in order to complete some quest for the greater good.
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2009-11-03, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
Once you get access to lesser planar binding, get a nightmare. Dominate it. Have it cast astral projection on you. Come back to the Material Plane, cast gentle repose on your body (or cover it in quintessence), put it somewhere it won't be hurt, then go adventuring.
Your body will remain young so long as you're not in it.
Also, get a contingencied reincarnation, and kill yourself when you're getting near Old Age. Keep your mental bonuses, and keep your new Young Adult body.
Alternately, research a spell that ensures you become a ghost.
Or become a necropolitan.Last edited by Lycanthromancer; 2009-11-03 at 06:00 PM.
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2009-11-03, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Gender
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2009-11-03, 06:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
It doesn't mean what it says? Always is always. Mostly alignment X and ususually alignment X are different, but always is always (not counting magical ways to change alignments).
Also, on making liches, the BOVD disagrees with you;Unliving corpses-corrupt mokeries of life and purity-are inherently evil. Creating them is one of the most heinous crimes against the world that a character can commit. Even if they are ordered to do something good, undead unvariably bring negative energy into the world, which makes it a darker and more evil place.For the last time, it stands for Shadow of Darkness!
Thankin' Nevitan fer me babytar!
Kasaad Shadowweb-Chitine Paladin of Freedom (now a clickable link!).
Genderbender week comin' up! SoDess by Bisected8 *applause*
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2009-11-03, 06:03 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2007
- Location
- Missouri
- Gender
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
In 4E, it depends on your epic destiny. For example, a level 30 demigod who completes his destiny quest ascends into godhood. A level 30 archmage who does the same becomes one with magic itself.
Nonmagical epic destinies, e.g. martial ones, often have the level 30 character be remembered forever, the stories of his epic deeds giving him an immortality of sorts.
Avatars are an interesting case. When an avatar dies, his consciousness merges back with his greater divine self. For example, an avatar of Kelemvor would merge back with Kelemvor upon his death, and Kelemvor would then have all the accumulated experience, knowledge, and memories of his avatar.
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2009-11-03, 06:04 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
- Gender
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
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2009-11-03, 06:07 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2009
- Location
- Runite
- Gender
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
IIRC the difference from a "normal" lich and a good one is that good ones have inmunity to turning... possibly the libris mortis has that template.
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2009-11-03, 06:08 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
- Location
- Australia
- Gender
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
I disagree. I'd be comfortable saying that a single instance of throwing an innocent orphan child into a woodchipper would demonstrate not only that you are evil now, but that you were already evil for being the sort of person who would, even if the opportunity hadn't yet presented itself.
Being good only has any relevance at all if it takes some sacrifice. Being evil only has any relevance if it can get you things being good can't. Letting "good" people get the benefits of being evil without the pain cheapens both.
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2009-11-03, 06:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
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2009-11-03, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Location
- The great state of denial
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.
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2009-11-03, 06:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2007
- Location
- London
- Gender
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
Give them bread and circusses and the plebs wont rise against you. Give adventurers dungeons and trapped chests and they won't waste time looking to ransack your home and kill your wife.
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2009-11-03, 06:16 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2008
- Location
- The great state of denial
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
Well, you can get immortality through lichdom which is something that by the rules both good and evil can get (good lich template, lich template) so I doubt strongly that this is a relevant case.
Besides, circumstances around throwing a baby into a wood chipper may reveal some interesting reasons why the individual may not be evil, much like how a person becoming a lich may not indicate evil. If some culture decided that the appropriate way to dispose of corpses was to throw them in a woodchipper to let their corpse fertilize the field, would that be evil? No. Circumstances dictate everything.Last edited by Yukitsu; 2009-11-03 at 06:19 PM.
Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.
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2009-11-03, 11:47 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Texas...for now
- Gender
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
Necropolitan. Or Dread Necromancer which is specifically open to neutral characters, and turns you into a lich for free without you needing to do anything at 20th level. Not to mention the fact that negative energy is neutral, not evil, spells like Enervation aren't Evil, and even the Flesh Colossus, a massive amalgamation of 300 animated corpses controlled by a ghost, is neutral.
Also, I distrust any source that can't spell 'mockeries' or 'invariably'.[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.
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2009-11-03, 11:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
Ghost Matyr's for paladins,
Ghosts for Wizards
Matyrs for clerics.Nadir We,
Youth Born,
Blood Letters,
Axe Weilders,
Victors Still.
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2009-11-04, 12:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Location
- Chania, Greece
- Gender
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
Good wizards go to heaven, bad wizards go everywhere
Don't be a lich, be a ghost (whose alignment is often neutral and as the monster manual states, he needn't be confined in a space, also there are some variant powers in Monsters of Faerun)
Also Archlich from Libris Mortis, And then you can trade your sucky lich abilities for better ones also found in monsters of faerun (an old 3.0 edition book, has some cool powers and you lose your "fear aura" to get one)
Necropolitan is the best if you focus on spellcasting, but it always striked me as rather ... bland. However this is purely my opinion and frankly mechanics-wise its the best thing you can do.
Lastly i think you can use sanctify the wicked to turn undead into good (but i am away from my books so i could be wrong, the spell and the template it applies is found on Book of Exalted Deeds)Last edited by peacenlove; 2009-11-04 at 12:09 AM.
Complete Shadow Magic! for Pathfinder Rules. (Google Docs PDF)
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Previous games: Life in Hell
as Moira
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2009-11-04, 12:17 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: Evil Wizards Live Forever as Liches... Good Wizards Live Forever as...?
I'm surprised no eberron buffs mentioned the Deathless.
But in actuality, I'd say that evil wizards are liches. Good wizards are eventually zombies in the evil lich's armies.Last edited by PhoenixRivers; 2009-11-04 at 12:18 AM.