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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Gralamin's Avatar

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    Default [4e] Missing Hybrids

    Here are my attempts to homebrew up the missing hybrid classes, excluding Psion. If anyone has an amazing idea of how to include Psion, let me know.

    Unfortunately, there isn't all that much content here, because I refer to class features that already exist.

    ((Blog Version))

    Hybrid Artificer
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    Profs, implements: Same
    Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude or +1 Will

    HP1/HPlevel/HS: one half.

    Class Skills: as Artificer (No auto-arcana), and 1 extra skill from artificer list

    Class Features: Healing Infusion (Hybrid), Arcane Rejuvenation
    Hybrid Talent Options: Arcane Empowerement, Artificer Armor Proficiency

    Arcane Rejuvenation
    As Artificer class feature.

    Healing Infusion (Hybrid)
    As Healing Infusion, but usable once per encounter.

    HYBRID TALENT OPTIONS

    Arcane Empowerment
    As Artificer class feature.

    Artificer Armor Proficiency
    Cloth and Leather Proficiency.


    Hybrid Assassin
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    Profs, implements: Same
    Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude or +1 Will

    HP/HP/HS: one half.

    Class Skills: as Assassin (No auto-stealth), and 1 extra skill from assassin list

    Class Features: Assassin's Shroud (Hybrid), Shade Form, Shadow Step (Hybrid)
    Hybrid Talent Options: Guild Training, Shadow Step, Assassin Armor Proficiency

    Assassin's Shroud (Hybrid)
    As Assassin's Shroud, but you may only invoke the shrouds with Assassin Powers.

    Shade Form
    As Assassin ability.

    Shadow Step (Hybrid)
    As Shadow Step, but usable once per encounter

    HYBRID TALENT OPTIONS

    Guild Training
    As the Assassin ability of the same name

    Shadow Step
    As the Assassin ability of the same name

    Assassin Armor Proficiency
    Cloth and Leather Proficiency, and light shields.


    Hybrid Monk
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    Profs, implements: Same
    Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Reflex or +1 Will

    HP/HP/HS: one half.

    Class Skills: as Monk

    Class Features: Unarmed Combatant, Unarmored Defense
    Hybrid Talent Options: Monastic Tradition (Hybrid)

    Unarmed Combatant
    As ability of the same name.

    Unarmored Defense
    As Ability of the same name

    HYBRID TALENT OPTIONS

    Monastic Tradition (Hybrid)
    As the Monk ability of the same name, but Flurry of Blows may only be used with Monk Powers.


    Hybrid Seeker
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    Profs, implements: Same
    Bonus to Defense: +1 Reflex or +1 Will

    HP/HP/HS: one half.

    Class Skills: as Seeker

    Class Features: Inevitable Shot
    Hybrid Talent Options: Seeker's Bond, Seeker Armor Proficiency

    Inevitable Shot
    As ability of the same name.

    HYBRID TALENT OPTIONS

    Seeker's Bond
    As ability of the same name.

    Seeker Armor Proficiency
    Cloth and Leather

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    mummy162's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e] Missing Hybrids

    In the updated version, Artificer is included.

  3. - Top - End - #3
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    Yakk's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e] Missing Hybrids

    Artificer Armor Proficiency
    Cloth and Leather Proficiency.
    This shouldn't be a hybrid talent option.

    Do you understand why this shouldn't be a hybrid talent option?
    Assassin's Shroud (Hybrid)
    As Assassin's Shroud, but you may only invoke the shrouds with Assassin Powers.
    This is broken.

    Take an Assassin|Rogue, for example.

    You spend most turns using your Rogue attack damage, while building up shrouds.

    After turn 4, you use one Assassin attack, and deal 4 rounds of striker-boost damage from the Assassin power, plus 3 rounds of Rogue-boost damage, producing 7 rounds of striker-boost damage from 4 rounds.

    And you can keep this up indefinitely.
    Unarmored Defense
    As Ability of the same name
    Should have something extra rolled into it.

    The hybrid monk, in general, is missing a striker (damage boost) feature.
    Seeker Armor Proficiency
    Cloth and Leather
    Yet another "should not be a hybrid talent" option.

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    mummy162's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e] Missing Hybrids

    Armor proficiencies are never hybrid talent options. You get the proficiencies that both of your classes have.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: [4e] Missing Hybrids

    Looking at the rules in the char builder, that's not true.

    Hybrids get the lowest armour proficiency of their two classes. Hybrid talent options exist, for every class that gets more than leather, that just give you their armour proficiencies. If it's just leather you're better off with the normal feat and the hybrid talent option is omitted. In a few cases, Barbarian for example, you get armour proficiency and something else.

    For weapons and implements you get the proficiencies from both classes, but armour is different.

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Gralamin's Avatar

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    Default Re: [4e] Missing Hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    This shouldn't be a hybrid talent option.

    Do you understand why this shouldn't be a hybrid talent option?
    I put it in for completeness, Yes I realize that it might as well be the Leather Armor proficiency feat, but at the time of designing I thought at least one of the classes had it. That said, In retrospect, I was mistaken, and besides an official Artificer version exists now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    This is broken.

    Take an Assassin|Rogue, for example.

    You spend most turns using your Rogue attack damage, while building up shrouds.

    After turn 4, you use one Assassin attack, and deal 4 rounds of striker-boost damage from the Assassin power, plus 3 rounds of Rogue-boost damage, producing 7 rounds of striker-boost damage from 4 rounds.

    And you can keep this up indefinitely.
    Thats not even the optimal way of using Assassin's Shroud: a lot of the time you can get better results by letting off shrouds every other turn. However, I admit, I may be mistaken, would it be better if I limited it to 2 shrouds on a single creature?

    Edit: Perhaps "You may only place a shroud on a turn you use an Assassin Power, and you may only evoke the shrouds when you use an Assassin Power"?

    Should have something extra rolled into it.
    Err why? You get it for free, why should it be better then the Monk feature?

    The hybrid monk, in general, is missing a striker (damage boost) feature.
    The Monk's extra damage is so small as is, that I figured I could just put it in the Hybrid Talent (See Monastic Tradition). That said, If I gave it to start, I'd have pretty much nothing to give as a Hybrid Talent. I choose to have something useful to take over fitting exactly to form.
    Last edited by Gralamin; 2010-02-19 at 03:21 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: [4e] Missing Hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by Gralamin View Post
    Thats not even the optimal way of using Assassin's Shroud: a lot of the time you can get better results by letting off shrouds every other turn. However, I admit, I may be mistaken, would it be better if I limited it to 2 shrouds on a single creature?
    Basically, the assassin feature is about "your bonus striker damage is from the minor action".

    The idea of the 4 turns of shrouding before attacking is that you get 3 turns of alternative striker-class damage, then you get 1 turn of 4 turns of assassin striker-class damage (and 3/4 of it if you miss).

    The reason why doing it every 2nd turn is 'near optimal' is that you are getting 86% of the feature damage without risking the target dies before it goes off (assuming a 50% hit rate).
    Edit: Perhaps "You may only place a shroud on a turn you use an Assassin Power, and you may only evoke the shrouds when you use an Assassin Power"?
    I am not sure, really. The assassin striker feature is sufficiently unique that I don't know how to balance it.

    Note that Hybrid rangers can already exploit using minor action attacks to trigger ranger HQ on the same turn as using the other striker class feature, but at least that is restricted to the number of ranger encounter powers you have (or encounter/daily powers that are non-standard action actions in general).

    Would lowering the die size help, sort of like the Paladin one? Hmm. I really do not know.
    Err why? You get it for free, why should it be better then the Monk feature?
    Oops, misread that as being a Hybrid Talent.
    The Monk's extra damage is so small as is, that I figured I could just put it in the Hybrid Talent (See Monastic Tradition). That said, If I gave it to start, I'd have pretty much nothing to give as a Hybrid Talent. I choose to have something useful to take over fitting exactly to form.
    The primary role of the monk is striker -- so a hybrid monk should get features that make it at least decent at the primary role.

    Some things that might work in hybrid talent:
    Ki Focus Implement: The ability to wield Ki Focus as an implement (by standard, you can only use weapons as implements).

    Unarmed and Unarmored: Roll the +3/d8 unarmed strike, and +2 AC in cloth, into one hybrid talent feat.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Default Re: [4e] Missing Hybrids

    Quote Originally Posted by Yakk View Post
    Basically, the assassin feature is about "your bonus striker damage is from the minor action".

    The idea of the 4 turns of shrouding before attacking is that you get 3 turns of alternative striker-class damage, then you get 1 turn of 4 turns of assassin striker-class damage (and 3/4 of it if you miss).

    The reason why doing it every 2nd turn is 'near optimal' is that you are getting 86% of the feature damage without risking the target dies before it goes off (assuming a 50% hit rate).

    I am not sure, really. The assassin striker feature is sufficiently unique that I don't know how to balance it.

    Note that Hybrid rangers can already exploit using minor action attacks to trigger ranger HQ on the same turn as using the other striker class feature, but at least that is restricted to the number of ranger encounter powers you have (or encounter/daily powers that are non-standard action actions in general).

    Would lowering the die size help, sort of like the Paladin one? Hmm. I really do not know.
    So we'll leave this aside for now, it's definitely a bit of an odd one.

    Oops, misread that as being a Hybrid Talent.
    Ah, that explains it.

    The primary role of the monk is striker -- so a hybrid monk should get features that make it at least decent at the primary role.

    Some things that might work in hybrid talent:
    Ki Focus Implement: The ability to wield Ki Focus as an implement (by standard, you can only use weapons as implements).
    Now a days (The newest monk), Ki-Foci are the only implements monks have, and by base hybrid rules you'd get the implement for free. Though, this was originally designed for the monk before that.

    Unarmed and Unarmored: Roll the +3/d8 unarmed strike, and +2 AC in cloth, into one hybrid talent feat.
    I guess. But, then the question is, would I ever actually take this Hybrid Talent? All it gives us is a slight AC boost (While in Cloth), and a weapon that the class doesn't even really use anymore. I'll think about it, but it doesn't really seem like a good trade.

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