[4e] Retraining at 11th level

[LibraryOgre]

So, I'm fiddling in the Character Creator, updating my character for next game, and I realize I haven't been using my "Creation Secret" power; a heroic tier feat... I usually have something better to do with Channel Divinity, and I only have 1 daily item power, anyway (I go more in for Properties and Encounters, myself). So, I look to retrain it.

However, I was under the impression that when you reached Paragon tier, you could begin to retrain heroic tier feats into Paragon tier feats; the list provided to me, however, only included Heroic Tier feats. I found a suitable one (Warforged Tactics), but had I misread, or is there an error in the CB?

[Kurald Galain]

However, I was under the impression that when you reached Paragon tier, you could begin to retrain heroic tier feats into Paragon tier feats;

This is correct, per PHB page 28. It is thus common for a level-12 character to have four paragon feats.

[Reinboom]

"You can replace heroic tier feats (see page 193) with higher-tier feats, but only one at a time, once per level you gain. For instance, at 11th level, you gain one feat and you can also retrain one of your heroic tier feats, gaining a paragon tier feat in its place. At 12th level you can do the same, so you can potentially have four paragon tier feats at 12th level. (You might find that many of your heroic tier feats remain worthwhile well into higher levels, however.)"

So yes, that might be an error in the character builder.

*ninja'd*

Edit:
Testing the Character Builder. You can retrain a heroic tier feat to paragon just fine.
Make sure, under build, you are in the Retraining tab and that you are retraining under the level you are retraining at (so, 11th level) and not the level the feat is at.

[Dekkah]

Are you using the Retraining section in the builder or simply trying to change the feat directly in the feat section?.
You'll only be able to change a heroic feat for a paragon feat within the retraining section.

[LibraryOgre]

Make sure, under build, you are in the Retraining tab and that you are retraining under the level you are retraining at (so, 11th level) and not the level the feat is at.

THAT'S the problem; I retrained it at 8, not at 11. Ok, I can fix that when I get off the desk again.

Thanks, folks.

And.... DONE. Creation Secret became Paragon Defenses (and I also picked up Lightning Reflexes, and a paragon path that gave me Heavy Shield proficiency... I was sick of Hzurr saying "I rolled a 2.... and that still beats your reflex.")

[Hzurr]

And.... DONE. Creation Secret became Paragon Defenses (and I also picked up Lightning Reflexes, and a paragon path that gave me Heavy Shield proficiency... I was sick of Hzurr saying "I rolled a 2.... and that still beats your reflex.")

*Sigh* You're just bound and determined to ruin all of my fun, aren't you? Fine. Let's see how a warforged deals with a rust monster....MUAHAHAHA!


(Actually, what would happen with a warforged and a rust monster? Hmm...interesting...)

[Edge of Dreams]

And.... DONE. Creation Secret became Paragon Defenses (and I also picked up Lightning Reflexes, and a paragon path that gave me Heavy Shield proficiency... I was sick of Hzurr saying "I rolled a 2.... and that still beats your reflex.")

Paragon Defenses and Lightening Reflexes both give feat bonuses (as does shield specialization, if you were looking at that) so they don't stack!

[Blackfang108]

(Actually, what would happen with a warforged and a rust monster? Hmm...interesting...)

Warforged Fighter, seeing a Rust Monster coming: This Is Gonna Suck.

[Kylarra]

(Actually, what would happen with a warforged and a rust monster? Hmm...interesting...)

He gets eaten and can reconfigure all of his components with the residuum

[LibraryOgre]

Paragon Defenses and Lightening Reflexes both give feat bonuses (as does shield specialization, if you were looking at that) so they don't stack!

I'll double check, but the program seems to have stacked them.

EDIT: Have checked, and it wasn't stacking them. I'd just forgotten that my reflex increased to 17 at 10th level, meaning the +2 for a Heavy Shield and the +2 for Lightning Reflexes resulted in 21, instead of the extra +1 coming from Paragon defenses. Look like it's time to change my retraining!

*Sigh* You're just bound and determined to ruin all of my fun, aren't you? Fine. Let's see how a warforged deals with a rust monster....MUAHAHAHA!

I'll throw the wizard at it. That's why we have one, isn't it?

[Yakk]

Sadly, Lighting Reflexes was pre-PHB2-feat-patch for NADs. Paragon Defences (and Robust Defences) make it mostly obsolete.

[LibraryOgre]

Sadly, Lighting Reflexes was pre-PHB2-feat-patch for NADs. Paragon Defences (and Robust Defences) make it mostly obsolete.

First of all: NADs?

However, I went with Lightning Reflexes over Paragon Defenses... my Will is fine (Warforged Cleric with 16 Wisdom), my Fort is fine (23 Strength), but my reflex is abysmal (10 Int and Dex, and no Shield until 11th level and Paragon). That +2 from Lightning Reflexes brings my reflex, not up to the level of my other defenses, but at least out of the toilet. Sure, I could use a little more Fort and Will, but with Reflex as bad as it was, it was far more important to close up that huge gap in my defense than to shore up my strengths a little more.

[Draz74]

First of all: NADs?

Non-AC-Defenses. Also as in, "It really hurts when you get hit in the NADs."

[Mando Knight]

He gets eaten and can reconfigure all of his components with the residuum

Because now, oddly, the Rust Monster rusts magic, not metal. Though it only affects heavy armor and weapons, so it still kinda rusts metal...

[Kurald Galain]

(Actually, what would happen with a warforged and a rust monster? Hmm...interesting...)

By RAW, actually, nothing...

[Asbestos]

Because now, oddly, the Rust Monster rusts magic, not metal. Though it only affects heavy armor and weapons, so it still kinda rusts metal...

Well, the regular ones still rust metal, the bigger ones eat magic items.

And yes, as KG said, by RAW a Rust Monster can not rust a Warforged. Seems like a reasonable houserule so long as the DM isn't using it to completely cripple any Warforged characters.