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2009-11-06, 02:16 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
The Quintessence of Being a Scorpion [3.5]
"Yes, little thing. Back under the rock. Back into the glove compartment. More licky work. More scorpion kisses."
So, the Scorpion feats in Sandstorm. Interesting. The Scorpion Heritor. Interesting...but not sure how good it is. Now first off all, what do we think of these feats?
More importantly, I always get to thinking when I read through all those sections with scorpions I think, "Damn. A scorpion-worshiping character who tried to emulate them as much as possible would be awesome." Obsessed with the idea of rebirth, as romance being associated with violence (their mating rituals oh man their mating rituals), the works. That odd way of moving. It's just so viscerally terrifying.
So, to get down to the nitty-gritty--what's the most effective scorpion-abilities build you can muster? I'd prefer it to be martial as scorpions don't go around casting spells at people. Keeping those essentials of poisoning and grappling with claws and such (bonus points if they use those scorpion claws from Sandstorm as their primary weapon).
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2009-11-06, 02:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- I wish I knew...
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Re: The Quintessence of Being a Scorpion [3.5]
Well, it's not hard to make a Returning Harpoon, I guess you could use Shadow Jaunt for the teleport punch...
...
Oh, wait... wrong Scorpion..SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
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2009-11-06, 02:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: The Quintessence of Being a Scorpion [3.5]
Divine minion for monstrous scorpion forms, using a scorpion whip, and lots of scorpion feats.
Even more interesting if you're a half-drow, worshiping something that ISN'T Lolth.
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2009-11-06, 02:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2009
Re: The Quintessence of Being a Scorpion [3.5]
Come on, man. No jokes. Let's just get started on this guy so we can FINISH HIM.
Wow, that was weird. Why did I shout that? This must be some neurological condition. I hope it's not FATALITY.
What the?...oh, man. I have got to call my doctor and tell him to GET OVER HERE.
EDIT:
@Lycanthromancer: Tempting, but I'd like to stay mundane. I mean, the character's theoretical, but I imagine someone trying to imitate them while staying essentially completely human. There can be some little supernatural things but they would be things that, in real life, you could perceive as questionably magic.Last edited by Anonanimal; 2009-11-06 at 02:40 AM.
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2009-11-06, 02:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
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- Australia
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Re: The Quintessence of Being a Scorpion [3.5]
Since you're getting Wild Shape and Sneak Attack anyway, how about a 2-4 level dip into Daggerspell Shaper? That way you can enchant your claws with whatever enhancements you like.
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2009-11-06, 02:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
Re: The Quintessence of Being a Scorpion [3.5]
The PrC Tier Project lists Scorpion Heritor as a +1. Yours truly actually rated that particular PrC, though it's been months since I've looked at it and I really don't remember much, expect that it's not gamebreaking but it's generally an improvement over, say, straight Fighter. Which isn't really saying much, but still.
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2009-11-06, 02:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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- I wish I knew...
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Re: The Quintessence of Being a Scorpion [3.5]
Honestly, I think a Swordsage would do well with this, probably duo-wielding claw and shortspear. Lot of Shadow Hand and Setting Sun techniques.
SpoilerQuite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us
My homebrew world in progress: Falcora
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2009-11-06, 03:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
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2009-11-06, 04:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- England
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Re: The Quintessence of Being a Scorpion [3.5]
If you're looking for a grapple-and-sting style character, then you probably want someone that can actually grapple....this says either Goliath or Half-Ogre to me. Both have LA, which isn't good, but it can be bought off fairly quickly.
Grapple, not being the most terribly effective combat style, doesn't want to be your main focus. The same could be said for the poison aspect. A shortspear might be an appropriate 'sting' to use in a grapple. Alternatively, you might look into that feat that allows you to change the damage type of your unarmed strike (I forget where you can find it). Downside of the unarmed strike route is that you won't be able to get magic enhancements...of which the Toxic and Virulent properties (DotU) are almost neccesary for anyone that makes regular use of poisons.
Your other option for poison is to look into getting a poisoned natural attack. Of the top of my head, the only way beyond magic or bizarre races of doing this is the Geomancer PrC and even that requires you be a spellcaster and the poison isn't very good anyway.
My advice would be to largely ignore the poison aspect. Sure, scorpions are venomous, but that doesn't neccesarily mean our scorpion fan-boy needs to be as well. In fact, I'm not even sure a grapple-tastic build is neccesary either. I quite like the idea of a small race; a goblin, kobold or halfling perhaps taking on the mantle of a scorpion. I'm seeing someone that embodies the scorpion trait of being small and unassuming, but very very deadly. Come to think of it, a Poisondusk Lizardfolk might be a perfect candidate. Not a desert-dwelling race, but I see no reason why a well-travelled one might not come to practically worship scorpions. They get racial Poison Use and the grapple aspect could be represented by using a net (which they get racial proficiency with). They also have a chameleonic ability which gives them a further bonus to Hide above their size bonus.
hmmm...let's see now...
Race: Poisondusk Lizardfolk
Class: Ranger 2/Swashbuckler 3/Dervish 10
Feats:
1 - Combat Expertise
Flaw - Dodge
Flaw - Mobility
Ranger 1 - Track
Ranger 2 - Two Weapon Fighting
3 - Weapon Focus (Scimitar)
Swashbuckler 1 - Weapon Finesse
6 - Sand Dancer
9 - Underfoot Combat
12 - Confound the Bigfolk
15 - Sand Spinner
edit: come to think of it, if I were building this in Gestalt, the Tattooed Monk PrC gives a couple of abilities that would be appropriate. I would probably go for the White Mask, Ocean, Falcon, Monkey and Wasp tattoos. The White Mask, Ocean and Falcon because they make the character implacable. The Monkey for +5 to a host of skills and Wasp because it's Haste for 5 minutes per day (and you can't argue with that!).
So it would look like;
Monk 6/Tattooed Monk 10//Swashbuckler 3/Ranger 13
As far as Alternative Class Features go, I'd use Spell Reflection (CM), Champion of the Wild (CC) and Distracting Attack (PHBII) for Ranger and Arcane Stunt (CM) for Swashbuckler .Last edited by JellyPooga; 2009-11-06 at 04:51 AM.
I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.
Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.
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2009-11-06, 12:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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- Manchester NH
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Re: The Quintessence of Being a Scorpion [3.5]
there is also a few scorpian feats in secrets of xendrix from Eberron. FYI... there is a great one that has to do with the scorpian claws. its a rend type ability that you can get at level 1 if i remember..
When the end comes i shall remember you.
I sorry i fail Englimish...(appologise for Spelling/Grammer Errors) Please don't correct my spelling or grammer eaither.
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2009-11-06, 12:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2007
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Re: The Quintessence of Being a Scorpion [3.5]
Well, you could always go either totemist (and grab suitable soulmelds for...just about anything melee you could want), or psychic warrior (which has powers that would suit a poisonous grappler better than well). Both gain natural attacks, are awesome grapplers, and have access to poison and/or acid attacks that would suit a scorpion-guy just fine.
You could also take Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Monstrous Scorpion) and dual wield them.
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2009-11-06, 01:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2007
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Re: The Quintessence of Being a Scorpion [3.5]
Last edited by FinalJustice; 2009-11-06 at 01:08 PM.
In two seconds I will hit the ground
A moment stretched out over years
And my eyes will flicker and then something has changed
An empty cage, a crimson bud, a street of blood
A city rose sprung out to greet the rain
PoS: Enter Rain
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2009-11-06, 01:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Washington, DC
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Re: The Quintessence of Being a Scorpion [3.5]
Scorpion Heritor is pretty weak. 10 levels, 7/10 BAB, Rogue-ish Skills, 5d6 Sneak Attack, 2 weak bonus feats, the ability to Polymorph into a Tiny Scorpion (which would be useful for a Tiny but Deadly build, except that you can only do it once per day), a moderately useful poison ability you can use 3 times per day, and a poisonus tail attack that lasts for 1 hour per day. Honestly, I'd rather just be a strait Rogue and pick up Improved Uncanny Dodge and two Special Abilities. Either way, you're going to be on the shallow end power tiers.
You might also want to take a look at the Scorpion Wraith PrC (Secrets of Xen'drik). 5 levels, full BAB, Ranger-ish Skills, Poison Use, +3d6 Sudden Strike, Wild Empathy (that also applies to Vermin), +4 unnamed Initiative bonus if there is a Surprise Round, a few minor Darkness related abilities, and the ability to produce a strong Poison (1d10 Con, DC 15 + Wis mod) 1+Wis bonus times per day. It's comparable in power to the Scorpion Heritor, but it's only 5 levels, you don't have to give up full BAB, and Wild Empathy is a very useful (and underutilized) ability.
As far as the Scorpion related feats go, the only one I would take is Scorpion's Grasp, which is a must have for Unarmed Grapple builds.
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2009-11-06, 03:48 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: The Quintessence of Being a Scorpion [3.5]
I think a grapple/poisoning build would be best to fit the scorpion flavor. Something using the scorpion's grasp feat to hit people with a kukri or something, then draw them in, using str-damaging poisons so they can't escape your grapple.
Also, scorpions are pretty cheap as pets if I recall - only 900g or so for a huge one (A&E Guide). The amber amulet of vermin can also summon a huge scorpion 1/day for 700g, or a large scorpion if you use the errata - both are solid purchases (MIC).
I agree that it is a very nifty idea - I think I included a scorpion heritor build as part of my Poison Handbook, actually. I'll have to check out the Scorpion Wraith from Secrets of Xen'Drik now too :)Handbooks: (Hosted on the new MixMax forums)
[3.5] The Poison Handbook
[3.5] (New) Master of Shrouds Handbook
[3.5 Base Class] Healer's Handbook
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2009-11-07, 02:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2009
Re: The Quintessence of Being a Scorpion [3.5]
Awesome. So many lovely ideas. Thanks, folks! And keep 'em coming, if you've got them. I'm especially partial to the kobold or poisondusk lizardfolk one, as it does capture the feel quite well.
Last edited by Anonanimal; 2009-11-07 at 02:58 AM.