Bossing Around Mad Cats for Fun and Profit: Let's Play MechCommander 2!

[Artanis]

Well, I can tell you right now that the Enfields won't be seeing any use because they are outright, objectively inferior to Starslayers

[Timberwolf]

Don't knock the enfield. Given some love in the mechlab, it's very effective. I personally prefer it to the Starslayer. Of course, compare it with one of the other mechs you pick up there and they're both somewhat inferior.

[Istari]

I'm playing through this again on hard this time, and it is definitely much harder.
Most early Steiner missions were almost a cakewalk, but now I find I have to re do them several times. Any advice?

[Demented]

You can always exploit the AI, assuming hard doesn't change the behavior any. Send in a fast unit, have them all target it, then run the fast unit away and pick off the oblivious simpletons.

Don't knock the enfield. Given some love in the mechlab, it's very effective. I personally prefer it to the Starslayer. Of course, compare it with one of the other mechs you pick up there and they're both somewhat inferior.

The Enfield is identical to the Starslayer in every way, save that it has 12 less heat, no jumpjets, and costs 5750 credits less. That's a shame, seeing as it's so much better looking.

[blackouttwo]

The Enfield's better than the Fire Ant and Urbanmech, at the absolute least. Take some solace in the fact that you'll get a Shadowcat. That's always nice. Clan Gauss Rifle this early in the game is impossible to replace or get onto any other mechs.

[Artanis]

The Enfield is identical to the Starslayer in every way, save that it has 12 less heat, no jumpjets, and costs 5750 credits less. That's a shame, seeing as it's so much better looking.

Exactly. It'd be a poor Commander who sends his troops into combat with objectively inferior equipment when you can get better stuff for a relative pittance

The Enfield's better than the Fire Ant and Urbanmech, at the absolute least. Take some solace in the fact that you'll get a Shadowcat. That's always nice. Clan Gauss Rifle this early in the game is impossible to replace or get onto any other mechs.

I didn't mean to give the impression that I was going to toss out all the salvage. I just meant that the Enfields are useless and going to be sold off since I have several Starslayers stockpiled, and can buy more if I want. There's lots of mechs in both missions that will come in really handy after I salvage them, but Enfields aren't one of them

[SparkMandriller]

Exactly. It'd be a poor Commander who sends his troops into combat with objectively inferior equipment when you can get better stuff for a relative pittance

Hey, hey, you gotta save your cash so you can afford to buy a company of blood asps when they become available. That's like, the whole point of MC2.


(So nobody wants to play with me?)

[BooNL]

I like the distinction between the heavy lance and the light lance.

Hammer lance is, of course, a classic. How about Thunder lance and Inferno lance?

If we're allowed to make 'mech suggestions. Worm in a Raven is my favourite combo and I'm glad to see you use him in the previous mission! I'd like to see a Vulture in there as well, though they're massively inferior to the Catapult...
What level do you get the Mad Cat again?

Mission 2b definatelly. I've recently done 2a and its a dud, a couple of 'mechs for salvage, but a rubbish mission.

[SparkMandriller]

I'd like to see a Vulture in there as well, though they're massively inferior to the Catapult...

!?

Catapults have 1 extra space, and possible jump jets, but Mad Dogs have better starting armour, better maximum armour, much better speed, and better heat capacity.

You must really like jumping.

[BooNL]

Indeed, I really like jumping...

Armor is pretty useless on a LR 'mech, they should be out of the usual line of fire. LRM's don't take up a lot of heat, so extra heat management isn't overly useful. This is of course, assuming you don't ditch the LRM's for other weaponry.

Granted, Vulture's are tougher 'mechs, but IMO the extras aren't overly useful.

[SparkMandriller]

Clan LRMs get pretty hot though. I guess it's not really an issue for a while, but once you get access to them there's no real reason not to upgrade. Except cost, maybe, but it's not like the game doesn't give you ridiculous amounts of money.
As for the extras, I guess I'm just not as patient as you seem to be. Waiting for slow mechs to get to places makes me boooored, so faster is better. Armour doesn't really matter because the AI is stupid and just attacks whatever it sees first, but that just proves that we should be playing against each other, right? I mean, damn, there are eight player maps, I dunno where else I'm gonna find another seven people.

[blackouttwo]

I've got to agree with SparkMandriller there, on just about every count. Vulture vs Catapult stock models, with two players and no AI, the Catapult's jumpjets won't be much help.

[BooNL]

True, a Vulture beats a Catapult in a straight fight, no argument there.

My argument, however, is that most of the Vulture's features are moot when the 'mech is used to its full potential, which is ranged combat. If an assault 'mech gets within close (or even medium) range, both the Vulture and the Catapult have already lost.

However, consider a situation where an assault 'mech does break through the line and is charging. In this case, the only thing a Vulture can do is run, until it's boxed in and dies.
The Catapult on the other hand, can simply jump to the next cliff and continue its barrage from there.

[SparkMandriller]

Yeah, but what happens when the Catapult's fighting enemies with long range weapons? I doubt its back armour is gonna last long enough for it to find a cliff, jump up, and then run far enough to get away. Not like it's gonna be outrunning anything under 90 tons, either. Except Urbanmechs. Great work, Urbanmech.

But anyway now that I look at it this is getting like one of those ToB threads or something where everyone just argues forever and nobody gets anything out of it at all, so maybe we should stop. I'll just, y'know, make a mental note that if we should ever play against each other, kill the Catapults first. Catapults must die.

[Artanis]

It seems that 2b is the winner, but I don't see that great a consensus on names. Thor Lance and Loki Lance are ahead, but only by one vote, so I'll leave that open a while longer




re: Catapult vs. Vulture


In practice, at least for me, the two wind up fairly close to equal in MC2. Fighting alone and needing to escape are rarely, if ever, issues in the game, so it comes down to performance under fire. The Vulture's biggest advantage is that its higher heat helps it deal with my love for energy weapons, while the Catapult doesn't get beat up nearly as much for some reason that I've never been able to figure out

[Timberwolf]

The Enfield is identical to the Starslayer in every way, save that it has 12 less heat, no jumpjets, and costs 5750 credits less. That's a shame, seeing as it's so much better looking.

I guess it's a style thing. I don't use jump jets much and rely on low heat weapons that make big holes (aside from when I use a PPC boat, which I do with a Zeus at this point in the game)

Vulture vs Catapult - if you're a puretech maniac then it's Vulture all the way just for the Clan weapons, especially if you modify. I always rip out it's little dinky lasers for more armour but essentially leave it stock after that. If you assume equal weapons, I still think vulture - same job, 5 tons lighter, looks better, better name. Yeah, vulture for me.

[SilentDragoon]

Maybe I've just played MechWarrior games too often, but I never want to use a Catapult due to the enormous cockpit/head that they have. I've beaten too many of them in a single head shot to have any respect for them or to try and put my mercs in them. The only way I would use one is as an extreme range sniper or long range ballistics weaponry in conjunction with a few other mechs that could draw fire. The Vulture doesn't share the head shot weakness to the same extent, so it was my heavy missile battery of choice in MW. Does that carry over to Mech Commander? I've only played a few missions, but it seemed my mercs really easily destroyed the enemy Catapults.

[blackouttwo]

Near as I can tell, Catapults are pretty awesome when you get the chance to use one. Vultures are just plain better, but for the time you have them and before you encounter House Davion units, Catapults are fairly good heavy units....nothing compared to Atlas's or Zeus's though.

[Artanis]

The writeup for this mission is taking a bit longer than expected. Something about the mission messes up my "rhythm", so to speak, so I'm having a little trouble putting together a good run at it

Rest assured though, I am working on it.

[Artanis]

==LIAO CONTRACT, MISSION 2b==


==MISSION BRIEFING==

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TYPE: Seize Assets

LOCATION: Jacksen Sector - Steiner/Davion Border




TEAM:
--STEEL, Lao Hu
--TWITCH, Starslayer
--WORM, Raven

==MISSION LOG==

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While it was only a matter of time before Davion got drawn into the war, Liao didn't want to wait that long. They decided that it would be to their advantage to hasten the inevitable, and found the perfect opportunity to do so. In the Jacksen sector, Steiner and Davion had bases staring each other down from across opposite banks of a river. Each House also had a weapons facility there, holding tech that they no doubt wanted to keep out of the other's hands.

Our job was to sneak up the Davion side, capture their weapons facility, and steal the mechs from a salvage yard next to it. They would probably blame Steiner for the attack. We'd then take the stolen Davion mechs across the river to capture both the Steiner weapons facility and the HQ of a base a ways to the south. They would definitely blame Davion for this.

The first issue was that Davion had a sensor net directly between our drop point and anything remotely of interest. That meant I would need a mech with ECM to go in and take out the towers without being detected, which in turn meant Worm in a Raven. Since I needed to fight my way into a Davion base to capture the RPs I'd need for the salvage yard, I wanted firepower and jump jets, which I got by putting Steel in a Lao Hu and Twitch in a Starslayer. Longshot and company would be held in reserve for the salvage mechs.


The first part was simple enough. Worm ran into a few of the worst-placed turrets I've ever seen, but was otherwise uncontested on his way to the sensor towers. Meanwhile, Twitch and Steel made themselves useful capturing a few RPs outside the sensor net's coverage while they waited.






Other than Worm drawing a couple hovertanks into the turrets as Twitch and Steel caught up, there was little worth noting until I prepared to make my assault on the Davion RP base. I had the option of sneaking around and hitting it from the side or of fighting my way down a line of firebases along a ridge. I had no idea what defenses were in the RP base itself, and I didn't want to wind up being flanked, so I took the latter option.

At first, things looked like they'd be easy as I ran into a single Wolfhound. They may be combat-oriented, but they're 30 tons, and as such not really that great in a fight.




Of course, the pilot seemed to realize that and immediately booked it towards the nearest firebase. The firebase's turrets, placed to defend from a Steiner incursion, were no threat. The Enfield and second Wolfhound waiting for him there, on the other hand, were.




As the three Davion mechs engaged the team, Worm gave me bad news: more sensor contacts - big ones - were inbound.




They were Jagermechs. Armed with four Light ACs, Jagermechs are similar to Catapults in that running up next to them would completely neutralize them. Unfortunately, things were not so easy since there was two of them, and thus they could cover each other. The team was quickly pushed down the hill from the firebase and clear past the second sensor tower.







One batch down, plenty more to go.

The RP base was guarded by vehicles and three Enfields. After a quick repair, I started trying to draw out the defenders one at a time into the guns of a nearby firebase I had captured.

The plan worked brilliantly, with one Enfield coming out to engage while his two comrades resolutely stayed at their posts. He walked right into the combined fire of three mechs and several Autocannon turrets, precisely as I had planned.



What I had not planned for was the Enfield making a beeline for the captured turret control and blasting it to smithereens.




The battle to clear the rest of the RP base's defenders promised to be a tough fight. It did not, however, live up to that promise as my mechs' jump jets and Liao-wrought speed kept the defending Enfields from bringing the majority of their firepower to bear. It was a long, slow fight, but not a particularly threatening one as the two remaining mechs were picked apart at long range.




With the RPs in hand, it was finally time. The Davion defenders were cleared, their RPs captured, and now, their weapons facility and salvage yard, with its two Jagermechs, two Enfields, and one Shadow Cat, lay open and unguarded.



And the weapons facility? The weapons facility held Clan energy weapons. Even after more than a decade of reverse-engineering, Inner Sphere weapons were still flat-out worse than their Clan counterparts, and we had just captured a weapons facility full of Clan Pulse Lasers, Clan ER PPCs, and everything in between.



With the weapons facility captured and the team nearly 300 tons heavier, it was time to cross the river and go after Steiner.


When I got to the Steiner weapons facility, I was greeted with a really rather depressing sight: Steiner had shelled out the money to build heavy turret cover for it, but had put the control buildings where the turrets couldn't really protect them. They had also put them where mechs and vehicles in the base couldn't protect them, for that matter. It was like they wanted me to turn their defenses against them.




I swung around wide and approached from due north, minimizing what little cover one set of turrets could provide to its control building. Longshot took a couple hits capturing the building, but nothing a quick hop to the Davion repair bay across the river couldn't fix. Two Highlanders came out of the base to oppose the team, but when faced by fire from their own turrets and my ridiculously numerous team, they lasted barely long enough to down the turret control. An LRM Carrier also showed up at some point, but was killed by Longshot almost before I noticed it.








With the base clear, Longshot jumped her Shadow Cat over the wall and captured yet another set of incredibly ineffectual turrets, leaving the weapons facility open. After the treasure trove in the Davion weapons facility, I couldn't wait to see what was in the Steiner one.

It held Swarm LRM racks. Swarm LRMs are incredibly deadly, but have targeting issues. And by "targeting issues" I mean "tend to blow up your own guys more than they do the enemy." Even the normally giddy Cash seemed disappointed.




After brief repairs, it was time to head towards home. Our last objective was to capture the HQ of a Steiner base right next to the extraction point, but first, we had to get past a small base standing in our way.

I guess it wasn't terribly surprising that its defenses were disproportionate to its size, given that it was guarding a bridge that went across the river into Davion territory. Still, three mechs and a decent turret grid was going to be a hell of a fight for such a small reward.



I figured there was little point in waiting and sent in the troops. Skirting a minefield, they charged up a hill overlooking the base and, in a rare move for me, opened fire on the turrets' generator. I normally prefer to capture the turrets, but they weren't liable to be open for capture anytime soon and I decided just to take them out of the fight ASAP.



With the turrets down, the mechs charged out to meet my forces. Two of the defending mechs turned out to be Razorbacks, and didn't last terribly long. The third, however, was a Zeus, and caught Longshot with a couple of volleys.



The misstep cost me dearly as a lucky hit blew the Gauss Rifle off of Longshot's Shadow Cat. With only minimal backup weaponry, I would have to hold her out of combat for the rest of the mission. Even with one of my mechs out of the fight though, one Zeus didn't stand for long against what was left.


Like I said, it wasn't much of a prize. I shrugged and sent the team on to the HQ building and extraction point. After the previous couple fights, I wasn't expecting much out of the Steiner defenders.

I expected wrong.

The logical place to start the attack was a hill outside the base's eastern wall. It was high ground, and it had a turret control that, surprisingly, was actually protected by its turrets. That would give my long-range mechs a fortified impromptu firebase from which to rain death onto the Steiner defenders. It would also protect my flank from the Razorback or two that were wandering around.




Steiner refused to take the bait, so more active measures were called for. I ordered Twitch to jump the wall in the southeast corner and capture the turret and gate controls there, opening the way for a frontal assault. He succeeded, but the rest of the team couldn't get to him before Steiner forces arrived.

And by "forces", I mean "a Highlander." Things did not go well for Twitch as his horribly outmatched Starslayer was pounded while he stayed at his post, desperately trying to keep the Highlander from recapturing the two control buildings.






The Highlander, even when backed up by a Bushwacker, stood no chance against the team's full might, and Twitch managed to get out alive. Wounded and with his mech half-destroyed though, he would have to join Longshot behind the lines.

With a foothold secured, the team rested and regrouped while I watched a Hollander get blown apart by the hill turrets when it came out to investigate. Now, the only defenses still standing between me and a successful mission was the two mechs defending the HQ building in the northern half of the base.

I captured the controls to the gate separating the two halves of the base, and launched my assault. One of the mechs turned out to be a Zeus, which put up a real fight before finally being brought down. The other was another Hollander that went down to stray fire while I wasn't watching.








All in all, it had been a very profitable mission, Swarm LRMs not withstanding. Lots of salvage, plenty of cash, and most importantly, Clan energy weapons.

I had also had a chance to see Davion forces in action. Their defensive architecture was much more competent than Steiner's - or worse, the bandits' - had been, but the forces I had come up against had been less than impressive. Stock Jagermechs are good at their job of providing fire support, but are even worse than Catapults when isolated like they had been when I fought them. Enfields are just plain bad, especially when you're like us and can buy Starslayers at the same weight. And for all the hype over Davion's vaunted "imports", the only Omnimech I'd encountered was my new Shadow Cat.

I doubted it would last though. Major Kelly, the local Davion commander, was no moron, so I figured it wouldn't take long for her to realize that Liao was up to their usual tricks. And when people mess with Davion, it's only a matter of time before Mad Cats start showing up.

==MISSION COMPLETE==



Any more votes for the lance names? So far, only one of them has more than a single vote.

[The_JJ]

Lighting and Thunder.

Yes, I'm taking my vote away from the one that's winning and redistributing it.

Deal.

[The Glyphstone]

Larry Lance and Curly Lance. Then, if you need a third-string set of pilots, they can be Moe Lance.

[Uncle Festy]

Larry Lance and Curly Lance. Then, if you need a third-string set of pilots, they can be Moe Lance.

This.

[blackouttwo]

Yeah, I'm gonna go for Curly and Larry Lance. Just for the sake of finally having some official designations for the 'Mech lances.

Also, YAY! Clan energy weapons AND a Shadowcat!

[Artanis]

Just to note, I reserve the right not to use a set of lance names that I really dislike

[SparkMandriller]

Swarm LRMs are incredibly deadly, but have targeting issues. And by "targeting issues" I mean "tend to blow up your own guys more than they do the enemy." Even the normally giddy Cash seemed disappointed.

Has anyone ever found a good use for swarm ammo in this game? Because the only thing I've ever seen it do is miss. I suppose it'd be good against someone who was AFK, maybe?

[Eldariel]

Has anyone ever found a good use for swarm ammo in this game? Because the only thing I've ever seen it do is miss. I suppose it'd be good against someone who was AFK, maybe?

I suppose they can be relatively efficient if you can get a 4-point surround with Swarm LRM-stacked mechs on a large enemy group or something... That way they'll take hits regardless of where they move. But considering that requires a 4-point surround, no, not really.

[BooNL]

They can be effective against the computer though. Have them go after the heaviest 'mech you have and you can pick them off easily with swarmers.

Of course, by the time enemy 'mechs get close enough they should be a pile of dust anyway.

I've had some success with them in the past though.

[chiasaur11]

Just to note, I reserve the right not to use a set of lance names that I really dislike

I knew we should have gone with Shemp lance and Fake-Shemp lance.

[SparkMandriller]

They can be effective against the computer though. Have them go after the heaviest 'mech you have and you can pick them off easily with swarmers.

I tried that, and half the time the enemy managed to get away from them even at walking speed. They did manage to kill some Urbanmechs though!

They've even got an incredibly distinctive firing sound to let people who aren't paying attention know that they should start moving. Maybe the developers are trying to make people abide by zell too. :/


Oh yeah and also while we're on the subject of terrible weapons, how about heavy large lasers? Heavy mediums could theoretically be of use on a short range focus Cougar, but I have no idea what larges could be good for. I mean 18 heat, damn.