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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Which race is the best as a wizard? I said halfling, but my friend kept saying that elves were better As far as I was aware, elves make for bad wizards. Or are we both wrong? Are humans or gnomes better?

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    If you play Gray Elf you can get an Int bonus. MM is core.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Yeah humans are the best, just for the extra feat.

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Human, Dwarf.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Dwarves make damn good Wizards thanks to the Con bonus.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Your friend was probably buying into the various Elf stereotypes. Grey Elf is probably the best in core, but if you're only using Player's Handbook races, it's Humans or Gnomes.

    Humans because of the extra feat, Gnomes because of the CON bonus and small size (Being smaller is an advantage when you don't do physical combat).
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    aje8's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Grey Elves if you're using non-phb core books.

    Otherwise Human. Human>Gnome in my experience.
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    Devil

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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    gnomes are good due to their +con and small, also good for illusionists...
    humans for the extra feat
    elves are good for the extra touch ac, but -2con can be annoying (might depend on your rolls...)
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Gnome too, as illusion is pretty strong. Stronger with Races of Stone, and if the overpowered Transmutations are banned.

    Tiefling is great too if you can alter self into other outsiders.

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    Starbuck_II's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Gnomes are good with illusions so an Illusionist might make a good Gnome.

    But yeah Elves suck. Favored class don't mean what you good at: they mean what you can dabble in. So Elves are made to be a little bit Wizard and then whatever you want.

    Halfings are good at dabbling in rogue, etc.

    You ignore the favored class. Except human can ignore the highest level class.

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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Gray Elves are great Core Wizards thanks to Int-boost. Gnomes are great 'cause of the Illusion-plusses and Con-boost + small size. Human is great because of the bonus feat.

    I'd probably gravitate towards the Elf but only 'cause I have an unhealthy affection for Elves; the Con-penalty does hurt but getting bonus to two other primary stats with a penalty to dump is v. good. Gnome's biggest penalty is the 20' movement rate, really. Human's bonus feat isn't THAT strong in Core, but it's still plenty good.


    Quick pros & cons:

    Gray Elf
    +Int-bonus for save DCs, bonus spells (big one), Spellcraft, etc.
    +Dex-bonus for going first, reflex and low-level AC.
    +Spot/Listen-bonuses, weapon proficiencies (Longbow can be useful if you rolled ~8-10 Str), low-light vision, etc.
    -Con-penalty!!!
    -Str-penalty for carrying capacity

    Gnome
    +Illusion save DC bonus (especially on low levels; Color Spray is insane)
    +Con-bonus for HP, Concentration & fort-saves
    +Low-Light Vision & Listen-bonus, random bonuses vs. types
    +Small for AC, to hit and stealth
    -20' Movement Speed!!!
    -Str-penalty for carrying capacity

    Human
    +Bonus Feat!!!
    +Bonus Skillpoints
    -No other plusses

    Dwarf
    +Con-bonus for HP, Concentration & fort-saves
    +Racial bonus to saves
    +Darkvision, random bonuses vs. types
    -20' Movement Speed
    -Charisma-penalty for Charms/Planar Bindings


    That's about it for decent Wizard-races. Basically, if you need the bonus feat for your build, go Human. Otherwise, using a lot of Illusion, go Gnome. If not that, go Gray Elf. And yeah, avoid:
    High Elf
    Half-Elf
    Half-Orc
    Halfling
    Most MM races (Planetouched are a possible exception thanks to Polymorph-abuse with the Outsider-type, but +1 LA means it really isn't worth it still)

    Whatever they do, other races do better as Wizards. I'd personally avoid Dwarf Wizards too since Gnome Wizards are generally just better (Wizards can't exactly utilize the Dwarf Armor bonuses meaning they end up as a 20' movement race), but the bonus to saves is just too good to ignore for those looking for survivability. The Dwarven Fort-saves in particular are just insane with +1 Con and +2 racial.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2009-11-08 at 08:06 PM.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    I'll just point out that 6 strength at medium size doesn't carry much at all. Carrying capacity might seem like an afterthought until you realize you can't bring along standard adventuring equipment on your level 1 adventure. That said, in point buy you could just put 2-4 points in it and be done.
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    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by GoodbyeSoberDay View Post
    I'll just point out that 6 strength at medium size doesn't carry much at all. Carrying capacity might seem like an afterthought until you realize you can't bring along standard adventuring equipment on your level 1 adventure. That said, in point buy you could just put 2-4 points in it and be done.
    This is true up until you can afford a Heward's Handy Haversack. Once there, you've got 5lbs that carries everything you'll ever need. Then all you need is spell component pouch, clothes and maybe a weapon or so. But yeah, on low levels if you're going with 6 Str it's best to buy a mule. That said, I'm playing a 4 Str Gray Elf Wizard right now and it's yet to be a problem (though Str Drain is gonna suck).
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2009-11-08 at 08:17 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by GoodbyeSoberDay View Post
    I'll just point out that 6 strength at medium size doesn't carry much at all. Carrying capacity might seem like an afterthought until you realize you can't bring along standard adventuring equipment on your level 1 adventure. That said, in point buy you could just put 2-4 points in it and be done.
    Once again:

    Carrying stuff is for hirelings and the party fighter. I mean, it's nice to be able to carry more gear, but few DMs keep careful track of that kind of thing, and most of them let you hire donkeys or something.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Many adventuring places, such as dungeons, are not a good place for large quadrupeds. And at least in my experience you'll want your stuff on your person for immediate access, and you can't trust the fighter to give it to you at the right moment.

    I did overstate the case, though. There are a variety of campaigns where incredibly low strength is workable, until (as Eladriel pointed out) the Shadows show up.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Human. If LA buy off is allowed, Tiefling is also nice.

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    Thurbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Human, Gray Elf, Dwarf, Gnome...probably in that order.

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    deuxhero's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    Once again:

    Carrying stuff is for hirelings and the party fighter. I mean, it's nice to be able to carry more gear, but few DMs keep careful track of that kind of thing, and most of them let you hire donkeys or something.
    However Ray of Enfeeblement nasty if you have 6 strength. Find a way to get the last point and you are effectivlly dead from two actions without saves.
    Last edited by deuxhero; 2009-11-08 at 08:32 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Gnomes and dwarves both have an advantage when it comes to carrying capacity, letting them dump strength. Another big plus. Dwarves can walk around with a heavy load without slowing down. In spite of the -2 strength and 3/4 size limit to carrying capacity, gnome stuff weighs half as much. At mid levels when you actually need to carry a lot of things just get a handy haversack, mithral and darkwood.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-11-08 at 08:40 PM.
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Planetar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    How is gray elf is core? In which book he is?
    Last edited by Arakune; 2009-11-08 at 08:45 PM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Grey Elf is in the Monster Manual.

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    Starbuck_II's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by Arakune View Post
    How is gray elf is core? In which book he is?
    Core is PHB, MM, and DMG. Grey Elf is a variant elf in the MM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    The best wizard race is what you make it to be...the more fun you have, the better. It could be really fun to play a half-orc wizard, or something along those lines, just because it defies the stereotype.

    Mechanically, my favorite race is human.
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    Ponce's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Strongheart halfling. Bonus feat, but small (Though campaign-specific).

    Personally, I like Elans. They look like humans, but they live forever, in case you don't want to have to worry about silly things like dying. You could always become undead, of course, but all those methods are a bit messy.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Core Races as wizards

    Quote Originally Posted by GoodbyeSoberDay View Post
    I'll just point out that 6 strength at medium size doesn't carry much at all. Carrying capacity might seem like an afterthought until you realize you can't bring along standard adventuring equipment on your level 1 adventure. That said, in point buy you could just put 2-4 points in it and be done.
    I played a Str 3 Gray Elf(this is what happens when you allow negatives to offset additional points in point buy). Yeah...it sucks when a light crossbow is dangerously heavy, and additional gear that has a listed weight is pretty much verboten...but that only lasts a couple of levels, and anyhow, wizards need very little gear. Spellbook, spell component pouch, crossbow is pretty much it at first. Add the usual stuff to your party member's packs or to a mule.

    Once you have everything you'll ever need in a haversack, life is good. Also, spells to handle lifting/moving things for you are readily available at even low levels. Leave the tests of strengths to those who excel at them, save your precious points for more important areas.

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