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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Cicciograna's Avatar

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    Default Sleep/Stunning and Saving Throws

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    Reading the introduction to Mind Flayers entry from Lord of Darkness I always wondered what the "taste link" was. After buying the Expanded Psionic Handbook I finally discovered that it is a use of the power Sense link.
    But there is something unclear: the target of this power must be "a willing creature", which I'm sure that Kilimur is not. One could imagine that the Illithid called Sugglir used instead Sense link, Forced, but while on the first power it's possible to augment it and having the target feel one of the manifester's senses, the forced version doesn't allow such an option. Which brings me to the question.
    Knowing Mind Flayers it's verosimilar that the human Kilimur was held captive, and he was probabily stunned. So my question is...

    Is a sleeping/stunned/otherwise unconscious creature considered "willing" in respect to powers and spells that require the willingness of the target to work? Does it's lack of conscience make her automatically fail eventual saving throws (maybe only on Will)?
    [SPOILER]If not, how could Sugglir link his mind to his snack's and have him taste his own brain?[/SPOOLIER]
    Last edited by Cicciograna; 2009-11-09 at 05:37 PM.

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    Default Re: Sleep/Stunning and Saving Throws

    IIRC, unconscious creatures always count as willing.
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    Default Re: Sleep/Stunning and Saving Throws

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose87 View Post
    IIRC, unconscious creatures always count as willing.
    Would you please care to report a source for your answer? I seem to recall the same thing, but I couldn't find it anywhere.

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    Default Re: Sleep/Stunning and Saving Throws

    Quote Originally Posted by PHB p175, Aiming a Spell
    Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing, but a character who is conscious but immobile or helpless (such as one who is bound, cowering, grappling, paralyzed, pinned, or stunned) is not automatically willing.
    There you go.
    Last edited by jokey665; 2009-11-09 at 05:56 PM.
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    Lower levels arcane spells are usually a drag, but lower level psionic powers are often just higher ones waiting to be augmented.

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    Default Re: Sleep/Stunning and Saving Throws

    Quote Originally Posted by jokey665 View Post
    There you go.
    Thank you too.
    Thread can be closed.

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    Default Re: Sleep/Stunning and Saving Throws

    jokey665 gave the reference. In particular, note that "stunned" and similar conditions do not qualify. Any means of rendering someone unconscious will work, but a stunned character is still conscious. He is merely disoriented enough to be unable to act coherently, much like you might be after getting a hard knock on the head that wasn't quite hard enough to knock you unconscious.
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    Default Re: Sleep/Stunning and Saving Throws

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    jokey665 gave the reference. In particular, note that "stunned" and similar conditions do not qualify. Any means of rendering someone unconscious will work, but a stunned character is still conscious. He is merely disoriented enough to be unable to act coherently, much like you might be after getting a hard knock on the head that wasn't quite hard enough to knock you unconscious.
    Yes, reading the actual reference clarified every doubt.
    Last edited by Cicciograna; 2009-11-09 at 06:21 PM.

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