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    MindFlayer

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    Default Need strength help!!!

    In one of my 3.5 DnD campaigns, we have this dwarf. Nice dwarf. A little crazy though. He is one of our main fighters. one of our favorite past times of annoying the Dm is to increase his strength to high numbers. we have access to cleric spells, ranger spells, and sorcerer/wizard spells.all of our characters are from 9th to 13th level. any ideas?

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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    War Hulk, Miniatures Handbook. Needs large size, however.
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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    War Hulk, Miniatures Handbook. Needs large size, however.
    enlarge person + permanence = war hulk dwarf.
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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Also, if you can cast Miracle(or suceed on the UMD check of a level 7 scroll), Miracle let's you use the Wu Gen(Complete Arcane) spell Giant Size, which gives either a +16, +24, or +32 to str. Plus, it's not enhancement, so you can still benefit from a Belt of Giant's Strength +x.
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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Also, if you can cast Miracle(or suceed on the UMD check of a level 7 scroll), Miracle let's you use the Wu Gen(Complete Arcane) spell Giant Size, which gives either a +16, +24, or +32 to str. Plus, it's not enhancement, so you can still benefit from a Belt of Giant's Strength +x.
    That is crazy.


    Any possibilities that don't involve size growth?

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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DnDgeek13 View Post
    That is crazy.


    Any possibilities that don't involve size growth?
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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    It's a 7th level spell that normally can only effect the caster. Not really that bad.
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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DnDgeek13 View Post
    That is crazy.


    Any possibilities that don't involve size growth?
    Not really, at least for non-caster Dorfs that want medium size. If he's got a level of Barb and feats to spare(sorry, Fighter, so he only needs the Barb level), Frenzied Berserker works well. Also, don't forget to PAO into something with a good mod at some point.
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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Grafts from Lords of Madness, specifically the Sithilar grafts that adds a +2 untyped bonus. Expensive though. Another alternative, get bitten by a were creature. It'll add to his HD, which is probably not something you want, but who knows? It might be fun.

    Unfortunately, most ranger spells that give you a +str are personal only, so unless the dwarf IS the ranger, those will be largely useless. However you might wanna check out the Spell Compendium. Its got tons of spells.
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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    if i'm correct, he is a level 13 fighter.

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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Elation (BoED) (Brd2, Clr2, Sor/Wiz3) is +2 Str (morale).

    Fuse arms (SpC) (Clr2, Sor/Wiz2) is +4 Str (unnamed) with one arm. Combine with girallon's blessing (SpC) (Clr3, Drd3, Sor/Wiz3) to keep two arms.

    Polymorph is always a favorite when it comes to boosting Str. Treant, annis hag, fire giant, cave troll (MM3), war troll (MM3) and firbolg (MM2) are good high Str forms. Certain other forms work well with fuse arms...


    If you want Str for reasons other than combat, magic items like armbands of might (MIC), torc of the titans (MIC) and belt of the champion (MIC, requires feat) improve Str checks.

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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by DnDgeek13 View Post
    if i'm correct, he is a level 13 fighter.
    The majority of what we can do will require some measure of retraining. We can get you a melee Dorf 13 with 40+ Str, but most of what we can do requires more flexibility than what a pre-built character has.
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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    A few levels in factotum (specifically, three) will allow him to add his Intelligence modifier to his attack rolls, damage rolls, and his Str and Dex checks (including initiative), and Str- and Dex-based skill checks. If he has a 14 Intelligence, it's essentially the same as adding a +4 untyped bonus to Strength. Boosts to Int will act like boosts to Str, allowing you to get additional enhancement and other types of bonuses for far cheaper overall than adding them all to Str alone (for instance, two +2 enhancement items are quite a bit cheaper than one +4 item - and you can afford tomes earlier, as well).

    Adding a level in ranger, wizard, cleric, or druid will allow him to use items off of the ranger, wizard, cleric, or druid spell lists, respectively.

    If he buys himself a psychoactive skin of proteus he can use the psionic version of polymorph at will. Form of doom will give you a +4 untyped bonus, but it won't stack with polymorph-type effects. Strength of my enemy allows up to +8 to Str unaugmented, but for one, it's an enhancement bonus (won't stack with belts or gauntlets), and two, it has to be drained from enemies 1 point at a time (which is bad, because it's not instant gratification, but is good because it's a debuff).

    But really? His best bet is to go factotum, then start splitting his boosts between Str and Int.
    Last edited by Lycanthromancer; 2009-11-11 at 02:53 AM.

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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Actually, that doesn't work. Three levels of Factotum doesn't allow you to add you r intelligence to attack and damage as a matter of course. I believe it may allow you to spend an Inspiration point to do it for one roll, but a level 3 Factotum only has 3 Inspiration points per day.

    Adding it to Initiative, however, is entirely legit.
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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    Actually, that doesn't work. Three levels of Factotum doesn't allow you to add you r intelligence to attack and damage as a matter of course. I believe it may allow you to spend an Inspiration point to do it for one roll, but a level 3 Factotum only has 3 Inspiration points per day.

    Adding it to Initiative, however, is entirely legit.
    Well, a few feats taken as Fonts of Inspiration...

    Retraining? Psychic reformation?

    Of course, he does get those inspiration points every encounter, so he might not need THAT many of them...

    Oh, and you can also see about doing a true mind switch, and though it's undispellable, it's also kind of risky (for obvious reasons). Expensive, too.
    Last edited by Lycanthromancer; 2009-11-11 at 02:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Polymorph Any Object into whatever you want. Duration: Temporary.

    Polymorph Any Object again into the same thing. Duration: Permanent.

    Use that to qualify for War Hulk. If he's dumb enough, he may even get an int boost.

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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixRivers View Post
    Polymorph Any Object into whatever you want. Duration: Temporary.

    Polymorph Any Object again into the same thing. Duration: Permanent.

    Use that to qualify for War Hulk. If he's dumb enough, he may even get an int boost.
    What's the Strength score on a sarruhk? Int 30 on that. Otherwise, if he can get the Otherworldly feat, he could get Int 22 fairly easily through a celestial or fiend from the Monster Manual.

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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthromancer View Post
    What's the Strength score on a sarruhk? Int 30 on that. Otherwise, if he can get the Otherworldly feat, he could get Int 22 fairly easily through a celestial or fiend from the Monster Manual.
    Int isn't the focus here. Sarruhk strength is the same as the other stats: Whatever it wants, with little work.

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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixRivers View Post
    Int isn't the focus here. Sarruhk strength is the same as the other stats: Whatever it wants, with little work.
    I'm not talking Pun-Pun here. Just getting both Str and Int sky-high. Maybe PaO into a sarruhk, then a regular polymorph into a firbolg?

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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthromancer View Post
    I'm not talking Pun-Pun here. Just getting both Str and Int sky-high. Maybe PaO into a sarruhk, then a regular polymorph into a firbolg?
    Wouldn't be permanent. If you were gonna do this, you'd wanna double PaO into a Sarrukh, then use regular Polymorph as needed for another creature.

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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixRivers View Post
    Wouldn't be permanent. If you were gonna do this, you'd wanna double PaO into a Sarrukh, then use regular Polymorph as needed for another creature.
    I know. That's what I was suggesting.

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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Dragon disciple. It gets a lot of flak for sucking for casters, but it's a solid prestige for martial builds. 4 levels gives 4 strength (among other niceties), and level 4 is a good stopping point. So are 7 and 10 btw. You'll also need a level in a class that casts arcane spells spontaneously to meet the pre-reqs. Among other things; check the class description.

    Other methods include size increases, polymorph or getting bitten by a werebear for +16.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-11-11 at 11:41 AM.
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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Dragon disciple. It gets a lot of flak for sucking for casters, but it's a solid prestige for martial builds. 4 levels gives 4 strength (among other niceties), and level 4 is a good stopping point. So are 7 and 10 btw. You'll also need a level in a class that casts arcane spells spontaneously to meet the pre-reqs. Among other things; check the class description.
    10 is pretty horrible because it costs you Humanoid-type and thus Enlarge Person. 4 and 7 are both fairly good, though. Losing the third BAB at 9 kinda sucks though, though of course Wings are nice for a martial type.

    Biggest draws of the class:
    +4 Str
    Natural Bite-attack


    I'd only really consider it in Core though.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2009-11-11 at 11:40 AM.
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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Huh, I didn't think a bite attack was worth much. But if you got the feat to reduce it to -2, and you have a good strength mod to add, I guess it's free damage. I was thinking more about the d12 HD, good will save, and natural armor besides the strength boost. The +4 strength alone more makes up for the 2 points of BAB you lose (1 from DD, 1 from sorc or bard), then the rest is extra chocolatey goodness. Since he has 13 levels of fighter without a prestige, and didn't like the idea of size boosts, his group didn't seem that powergamey. So I left it as an option in case other options get the thumbs down.

    Come to think of it, I'd consider dipping dragon disciple and then 1 level of dwarven defender purely for the +4 to will saves, other minor bonuses, and little if anything sacrificed.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-11-11 at 11:47 AM.
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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Barb with Reckless Rage at 1st gets +6 Str/Con, -4 AC penalty when raging.

    Reckless improves Rage and Frenzy so a Frenzied berserker gets it boosting both.

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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    There are a couple spell in Magic of Faerun that provide a circumstance bonus to Strength, which would stack with almost any other available bonus. Sadly, they're spells you cast on enemies, because they also cause daze and penalties to most rolls. Immunize the dwarf against dazing, and it might be worth it just to annoy the DM.

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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    Huh, I didn't think a bite attack was worth much. But if you got the feat to reduce it to -2, and you have a good strength mod to add, I guess it's free damage. I was thinking more about the d12 HD, good will save, and natural armor besides the strength boost. The +4 strength alone more makes up for the 2 points of BAB you lose (1 from DD, 1 from sorc or bard), then the rest is extra chocolatey goodness. Since he has 13 levels of fighter without a prestige, and didn't like the idea of size boosts, his group didn't seem that powergamey. So I left it as an option in case other options get the thumbs down.
    Well, the Bite-attack is simply a free extra attack at -5; that's like an extra second iterative (with obviously worse damage 'cause you can't two-hand bite). With a high-Str type, it's got quite a decent chance of hitting, and fair damage output; tossing ~20-30 extra damage into the deal is really nice and if you happen to have a Druid with extra Greater Magic Fang handy...

    I wouldn't take Multiattack just for it; spending feats for a +3 on a secondary attack is kinda meh. But if his Str is going to be in the clouds anyways, and he has otherwise full BAB, I see quite a good chance of hitting with it.
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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    20-30? From 1d6+strength mod? That'd put his strength at around 40-60, which seems a bit crazy to pull off unless he does all the retraining, large size, etc. people are talking about. Or has shock trooper, which seems iffy given that his build is fighter 13. And at the -5 penalty it only hits 1/2-2/3 of the time. Well, it is free <shrug>.
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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    20-30? From 1d6+strength mod? That'd put his strength at around 40-60, which seems a bit crazy to pull off unless he does all the retraining, large size, etc. people are talking about. Or has shock trooper, which seems iffy given that his build is fighter 13. And at the -5 penalty it only hits 1/2-2/3 of the time. Well, it is free <shrug>.
    I was assuming the enhancement bonus (Greater Magic Fang) and some PA (as you're probably using it with your primary attack). I mean, you'll have +4 Str from Dragon Disciple and probably your largest number from the character creation in Str, along with probably the best enhancement you can afford and all level-ups, meaning you can reach ~30 Str or so by teens.

    And then maybe +3-+4 weapon and couple of points of PA (from your primary attacks). 1d6+10+3+3 is ~20. 30 was a tad on the high side before ~16-20, though; I just threw the numbers in there without math.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2009-11-11 at 05:17 PM.
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    Default Re: Need strength help!!!

    Already thought of that when I said "shock trooper". Without shock trooper you aren't going to want to PA on a full attack; it hurts your chances of hitting too much on the multiple secondary attacks. Even with the AB boost from a 30ish strength, which i consider standard. The boost from dragon disciple comes with a BAB penalty so strength and damage go up (making misses even more painful) but AB stays the same. But if he agreed to some tricks others mentioned and managed a 40-60 strength, or got shock trooper, then his AB might be high enough to PA.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2009-11-11 at 05:30 PM.
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