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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Troll in the Playground
     
    jiriku's Avatar

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    Default [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    Rumor has it that shadow dancer is not such a great prestige class.

    What builds or prestige classes can approximate the flavor of the shadow dancer (stealth, elusiveness, a few mysical abilities) with more mechanical effectiveness?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    Swordsage 20. Or Rogue 2/Swordsage 18. Or Rogue 14/Swashbuckler 3/Swordsage 3. Really, just Swordsage.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    The Shadow Walker template (Unapproachable East) gives pretty much any character an elusive shadow theme...SLA's based on HD, largely focused around Darkness and Dimension Door...also gives you easier access to the Telflammar Shadowlord PrC (same source) which gives you everything you'll want for a Shadowdancer-esque character; Shadow Jump, spellcasting, permanent Blur when in shadows, Pounce after using a teleport effect, Death Attack and finally de-facto immunity to death from HP damage. All over 7 levels for the cost of Dodge, Mobility and Spring Attack.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    Same as the guy above. Although I like the shade template more, but for the shade one you need to talk to the DM. No listed LA.

    Shadowlords are fun.
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    herrhauptmann's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Same as the guy above. Although I like the shade template more, but for the shade one you need to talk to the DM. No listed LA.

    Shadowlords are fun.
    It was published in an errata somewhere. I believe the shade template has a LA of +4. (Races of Faerun)
    There's also 'dark' from ToM, shadowlord as stated, and I think another in manual of planes (with 3.5 update)
    Shadow from Lords of Madness (+2)
    Last edited by herrhauptmann; 2009-11-11 at 07:25 PM.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    The thing is that if you're talking about the signature ability of the Shadowdancer -- Supernatural Hide in Plain Sight -- then there are very few alternatives. Almost none of the Extraordinary versions of HiPS work as well (just that of the Eye of Lolth, AFAIK).

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    Thurbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    There's a PrC in the ToM called Shadowblade - it's more martial than the shadowdancer, but might suit your needs.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    jiriku's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    I am the DM, so LA will not be an issue.

    So, perhaps something like swordsage 7/shadow dancer 1/(telflammar shadowlord or shadow blade) X, with a shadow walker, shade, or dark template?

    Hmm, I could actually make a couple different variations on this to make NPCs with varied abilities. This is good. Any other options?
    Last edited by jiriku; 2009-11-11 at 09:48 PM.

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    Mongoose87's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    There's a PrC in the ToM called Shadowblade - it's more martial than the shadowdancer, but might suit your needs.
    A quick glance leads me to believe this isn't all that good. Yea or nay?
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    Thurbane's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    I haven't actually used it yet, I just thought the thematics looked good. I can't vouch for it's effectiveness.

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    Draz74's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose87 View Post
    A quick glance leads me to believe this isn't all that good. Yea or nay?
    It's ... not great. Probably no stronger than the Shadowdancer itself. (Not broken-terrible, either, though.)
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  12. - Top - End - #12
    Troll in the Playground
     
    jiriku's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    It's not really powerful, but it's tricky. Plus, it's in an obscure book, so it's likely none of my players will be familiar with it. And with power attack, sudden strike, a spiked chain, and a couple of ways to deny Dex or make touch attacks, it can hit like truck. Players get scared when facing a heavy-hitting opponent who's mobile and hard to hit. These guys will be functioning in a supporting role, so they don't need to be showstoppers.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    I am the DM, so LA will not be an issue.

    So, perhaps something like swordsage 7/shadow dancer 1/(telflammar shadowlord or shadow blade) X, with a shadow walker, shade, or dark template?

    Hmm, I could actually make a couple different variations on this to make NPCs with varied abilities. This is good. Any other options?
    You could just drop the the level of shadowdancer and just pick up an Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (ToM). The collar (which gives you Hide in Plain Sight) +Swordsage is really good. You'll still need a Dim Door source like the Shadow Walker template unless you have a really nice DM who would allow Shadow Jaunt to qualify for Telfammar Shadowlord. Human (Shadowwalker) Swordsage 7/ Telfammar Shadowlord 6/ Dread Commando (HoB) 5/ Swordsage 2 will net you Shadow Jaunt/Stride/Blink for a lot of pouncing, +5 to your initiative and 3d6 sudden strike.
    Last edited by gorfnab; 2009-11-12 at 01:10 AM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    a level of warlock, the darkness invocation, and a single feat can get you the equivalent of hide in plain sight.

    the dark template (+1 LA) gives you much the same and a bit more

    straight swordsage gives you access to a swift invisibility, which is pretty snazzy.

    Really, I know it's been said, but you can cover the bases except the shadow familiar thingy with just swordsage.

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    AslanCross's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    I'll throw in my agreement with those who said Rogue/Swordsage. Focusing on Shadow Hand gives the character a lot of ways to set off sneak attack while gaining shadow teleportation and invisibility options.


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    Hyfigh's Avatar

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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    Don't forget that a splash of Umbral Disciple will allow you a Blur/Displacement style ability and while it's activated allows you to HiPS. I believe it only requires a 3 level dip to obtain and can be entered with either levels in one of the incarnum classes or a couple of feats.
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  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5] replacement for shadow dancer

    all umberal disciple needs are skills and one essentia its great for rouges their are feats and races that grant essentia and it progress your sneak attack and its hide in plane sight ability is better becuase i don't believe you need shadow to do it

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