Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 23 of 23
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Gender
    Female

    Default Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    Hey all, I was wanting to force myself to get better with spell knowledge as a player before resuming DMing, so I thought playing a utility arcane/divine hybrid class would be good. I was going with Mystic Theurge, but I could have sworn I remembered reading about a better one from some other book. I can't seem to find it. If you can, cool, otherwise it's a Mystic Theurge for me :D

    Thanks

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    There's Arcane Hierophant in Races of the Wild. Probably what you're seeking, though primarily Wizard/Druid (not that there's anything wrong with being a Wizard/Druid).
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2009-11-12 at 08:14 PM.
    Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
    Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
    SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    Mmm, except I was going for a wider variety of common spells, so I was wanting to constantly pull from the largest spell lists from each category (arcane/divine), meaning wiz/cleric.

    Thanks, though :) I may try that in the future

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    oxinabox's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2009

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    Could it be that you were thinking of the early method entry for Mystic theurge?
    like peple say:
    [ENTRY MTETHOD X] Mystic theurge?

    where [ENTRY MTETHOD X] is for example thetaht feat that gives you a second lvl spell. somethign praciced spell caster, or appentice something
    Last edited by oxinabox; 2009-11-12 at 08:19 PM.
    There is nothing on earth that we share; it is either Valjean or Javert!

    "A wizard can in fact be thought of the custodian to a familiar, a terrifying beast that charges its foes, slashing them to shreds while delivering their master's touch spells and bestowing upon their masters incredible bonuses to their hp or skill checks. A wizard is nearly powerless without one."

    Need to find a God? or Spell or Feat?

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    It could also be that I'm completely out in left field here, and I never read about any such hybrid class :P

    I really can't remember any other details. You know how it is... you Swear you read X somewhere amid that scary-looking huge pile of books sometime during the last few years :P

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    The Fochlucan Lyrist from Complete Adventurer is nice too, but you have to give up too many caster levels to get it.

    Also, you should go with the Archivist from Heroes of Horror instead of Cleric. Then you can have access to every divine spell there is.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Sep 2009

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    As someone currently playing an Arcane/Divine class (True Necromancer) I can say that it is not a good way to learn about casters. You end up very underpowered until you hit very high levels. You have lots of low level spells which are mostly pretty straight forward. Casters start to get spells that can really be used creatively until character level 5-7, so a Theurge doesn't get them until 8-11. I often find that being behind I don't have spells that can reliably affect the enemies we were fighting (in the last battle the opponent did not fail a single save over 5 rounds because I was trying to affect a creature that probably had 15HD with level three spells.

    If you want to learn more about Wizard spellcasting I found this guide to be very helpful. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002

    I have not found a good guide for Divine spellcasting, but my impression is that it focuses more on buffing than attack, especially at lower levels.
    The knight in glamered spiked armor

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    Quote Originally Posted by ranagrande View Post
    The Fochlucan Lyrist from Complete Adventurer is nice too, but you have to give up too many caster levels to get it.

    Also, you should go with the Archivist from Heroes of Horror instead of Cleric. Then you can have access to every divine spell there is.
    I actually do not know the archivist at all! Thanks! I'll look that up.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    Archivist was also released as a web excerpt, so for speedy look, check it out. And yeah, Wizard 1/Archivist 3/Mystic Theurge with Precocious Apprentice is very good (though with enough work, Archivist can get all the relevant arcane spells on his divine list; provided you use it as a Cleric with wider spell selection, Wizard is still very helpful); your casting is entirely Int-based and you're only one level behind on Archivist casting (3 on Wizard).

    Only Archivist bonus spells are derived off another stat and if you're an Illumian, you can make that stat Dex (instead of the standard Wis), which helps with the MAD somewhat.


    It is also possible to qualify for Arcane Hierophant without Druid-levels IIRC, though it takes some trickery. It's also a full arcane+divine advancement class so it would take you to level 20 from 14 where you run out of Theurge-levels (given early entry; 16 otherwise).
    Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
    Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
    SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Dimers's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    I'd like to add to Cmdr. Vimes' commentary that you're likely to learn about a subset of spells of each class with the dual-spellcasting setup. You'd have no need to pick certain wizard spells because cleric spells do the same thing better, and vice versa. Perhaps the process of comparing possibilities would lead you to learn about them ... but using the spells during play gives you a more complete viewpoint. So I opine that you should take the two parts of your education separately and get to know each spell list in more detail.

    I've heard rumors of a better divine/arcane PrC, too, but I didn't pursue it when I saw it. Sorry I can't help.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    Heh, it's just that they want me to DM again in 2-3 weeks, so... since it IS a weakness for me to work on, I'm thinking let's hop straight in to the 13th level party for the handful of games we've got, and then I'll be running it. I do Know the spells... it's just enormously different looking at the spells from a player viewpoint compared to DM, you know?

    Thanks again, all. I think Mystic Theurge is my chosen path

    Edit: Ah, I missed a post. With us being at level 13, we've got a nice list of spells to choose from. Additionally, since when I take over, we're starting over at low level, it'll be a while before I use the high level spells anyway.
    Last edited by rubycona; 2009-11-12 at 08:57 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Dwarf in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2008

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Wizard 1/Archivist 3/Mystic Theurge
    How are you getting into MT with only Wiz1? MT requires 2nd level arcane and divine spells.

    Edit: derp, missed the Precocious Apprentice part of that post. That's great if your DM allows that.
    Last edited by Andras; 2009-11-12 at 09:11 PM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
     
    jiriku's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2009

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    Archivist is a good way to learn divine spells. I'd recommend avoiding dual-progression classes (especially mystic theurge). You're likely to come away from that with the mistaken impression that casters suck. If you want to sample both branches of magic with the same character, you're probably best off creating a divine character who samples heavily from the arcane list. There are a couple of ways to make that happen:

    • Archivist is one, since the archivist can potentially learn every spell on all cleric domain lists, and quite a few of them are spells normally reserved for arcane casters.
    • Clerics with the spell domain, or clerics of Mystra in the Forgotten Realms who take the Initiate of Mystra feat, can case anyspell and greater anyspell, which also provide access to the divine equivalent of arcane spells.
    • The divine magician alternative class feature from Complete Mage allows a cleric to sacrifice a domain in order to put a handful of wizard spells on her list.
    • The magic domain power makes it pretty easy for a cleric to activate wands with arcane spells.


    Edit: Wow, totally ninja'd. Serves me right for stopping to eat dinner while posting.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2009-11-12 at 09:36 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andras View Post
    How are you getting into MT with only Wiz1? MT requires 2nd level arcane and divine spells.

    Edit: derp, missed the Precocious Apprentice part of that post. That's great if your DM allows that.
    And he shouldn't unless Focused Specialist is involved too. That's the legitimate version, Precocious Apprentice alone doesn't work.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    hamishspence's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    What about the Savant from Dragon Compendium? Arcane casting, divine casting, trapfinding.

    It might not be as godly as a full caster, but this is not necessarily a bad thing.
    Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
    New Marut Avatar by Linkele

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Lincoln, RI
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    What books are Focused Specialist and Precocious Apprentice in?
    Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.- Benjamin Franklin


    I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. -Evelyn Beatrice Hall

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Finland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sinfire Titan View Post
    And he shouldn't unless Focused Specialist is involved too. That's the legitimate version, Precocious Apprentice alone doesn't work.
    It can work under some DMs. That said, I was pretty much assuming FS for a multischool caster with vastly overlapping spell lists anyways.
    Campaign Journal: Uncovering the Lost World - A Player's Diary in Low-Magic D&D (Latest Update: 8.3.2014)
    Being Bane: A Guide to Barbarians Cracking Small Men - Ever Been Angry?! Then this is for you!
    SRD Averages - An aggregation of all the key stats of all the monster entries on SRD arranged by CR.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    dsmiles's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In the T.A.R.D.I.S.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    Also, you should look into the True Necromancer from the Tome and Blood. Divine and Arcane spellcasting and phenomenal control of the undead. Fairly potent in my oninion.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-to-effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
    Awesomesauce Doctor WhOotS-atar by Ceika!

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Orc in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    An interesting but often overlooked concept is the Wu Jen/Druid Mystic Theurge (Which would totally work). You wouldn't get quite as many spells per day, but you'd still quite a few interesting spells. And, with your impressive bundle of spells, you'd get a bunch of interesting class features before you went into Mystic Theurge. It would be like this...font of the wild, guy, just spewing nature energy everywhere. Not saying it's perfect (!), mind you, just a thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    Causing Hideous laughter is an Extraordinary ability of 20th level monks.

    At least, it should be.
    Proud Supporter of Vorpal Tribble's Monster Competition

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Banned
     
    Optimystik's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    How about Geomance-

    Wow, I almost made it through that with a straight face

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    dsmiles's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In the T.A.R.D.I.S.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    How about Geomance-

    Wow, I almost made it through that with a straight face
    I resent that, the Geomancer presents VERY interesting RP opportunities.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-to-effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
    Awesomesauce Doctor WhOotS-atar by Ceika!

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Banned
     
    Optimystik's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmiles View Post
    I resent that, the Geomancer presents VERY interesting RP opportunities.
    So does Expert, but you don't see everyone rushing to play one.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Quick ?, Arcane/Divine class?

    Thanks all for your help :)

    Just as a note, I thought I'd clarify, I'm pretty familiar with the magic system, but I just have always viewed it from the "reader" or "DM" perspective. IE, Nightmare being a really interesting spell, despite the fact that it rarely has application (though it's still cool if you Do manage to get in a situation for it).

    I also do know that spellcasters are extraordinarily capable. I was really just trying to find a way to force myself to be able to read the spells from a player perspective, you know, "what spells will my character pick and prepare?" and go from there. Without, hopefully, dying too readily. That and I'm only going to be playing just a few games.

    Again, though, thanks all for your help ^-^ I appreciate it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •