Would spells make monks overpowered?

[Darcand]

I have been considering the idea of giving monks the delayed spell progression, similliar to paladins and rangers, likely devine with access to only a few domains (strength, law, maybe war) Any imput pro or con?

[Pharaoh's Fist]

What spells specifically?

[The Glyphstone]

The words "Monk" and "overpowered" in the same sentence cause a Divide By Zero Error unless separated by "Never". It'd definitely help them a bit, and wouldn't make their MAD any worse.

[Lycanthromancer]

I have been considering the idea of giving monks the delayed spell progression, similliar to paladins and rangers, likely devine with access to only a few domains (strength, law, maybe war) Any imput pro or con?

It's gonna take a lot more than that to make monks useful, let alone overpowered.

However, it does help. A little.

Really, you're better off giving them access to psychic warrior powers. Either add the power progression to the class and cut a bit of the idiocy inherent in their class abilities (like Slow Fall), or just add them on as-is.

MUCH better, that.

[Temotei]

Unless you made it Charisma-based. But that would be stupid.

[Brendan]

Maybe just give them a domain of devine. Thats it. It can be used up to 3/day, and has all spell levels. I think that that could let it not be huge but enough to give a boost.

[Berserk Monk]

The words "Monk" and "overpowered" in the same sentence cause a Divide By Zero Error unless separated by "Never". It'd definitely help them a bit, and wouldn't make their MAD any worse.

I still don't understand what everyone's deal is with monks. They're a great class filled with a ton of abilities.

[Lycanthromancer]

I still don't understand what everyone's deal is with monks. They're a great terrible class filled with a ton of ^terrible^ abilities.

Read pretty much any monk thread out there for why.

Also, replace with swordsage. Done.

[UglyPanda]

It'd help a little, but Paladin and Ranger aren't really known for their spells. Half-progression is quite weak, and if the spells aren't things like all-day buffs or swift-action buffs, then the Monk isn't going to get enough actions per battle to use them.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Maybe just give them a domain of devine. Thats it. It can be used up to 3/day, and has all spell levels. I think that that could let it not be huge but enough to give a boost.

Divine. With an "i" in it.

I still don't understand what everyone's deal is with monks. They're a great class filled with a ton of abilities.

What's great about the class? What's great about the abilities? I've seen many monk threads and nothing the monk offers has impressed me so far, except for the PHB2 and the UA variant monks.

[Barbarian MD]

I'd say make it Wisdom-based.

I've always wanted to give monks spells like "enlarge person", which synergizes really well with a grappling build (don't argue about the merits of such build! I'm just saying if you're going to build a grappling monk, he may as well be bigger).

Healing spells. Perhaps even True Resurrection at level 20 like the half-celestial template. Most of the half-celestial SLA's would work well, in fact.

[Lycanthromancer]

Divine. With an "i" in it.

With two "i"s in it.

"I spy with my little eye, something beginning with "i". Guess what? It's your EYE."

"But that doesn't start with -" *Pop* "Argh!"

[Tavar]

I still don't understand what everyone's deal is with monks. They're a great class filled with a ton of abilities.

Having more abilities doesn't=power or usefulness. If you have 1000 pennies, you still have less money than someone who has 100 dollars. Also, many of the abilities don't work together, and some are simply pointless.

As for giving it a boost, it really depends on what exactly they're given.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

With two "i"s in it.

I bite my thumb at thee.

[Brendan]

Divine. With an "i" in it.

Sorry. Either a typo or lack of sleep.

[Temotei]

Or both. Yeah...monk's not all that great when you look at it and analyze greatly. At first, though, it looks nice.

[sonofzeal]

I know groups that are adamantly convinced the Monk is overpowered. The mind boggles.

[Lycanthromancer]

I know groups that are adamantly convinced the Monk is overpowered. The mind boggles.

And the stomach heaves.

They think, "ZOMG, 2d10 DMG AT LEVEL 20! THAT'S, LIKE, 500 POINTS OF DAMAGE!" despite averaging in at 11 damage.

That usually misses.

[Tavar]

Just looking at number of abilities tends to do that. I mean, the monk gets, what, about 28 class features, and many of them improve with level. Granted, they all suck, but still, by pure numbers they should be awesome.

[Zeta Kai]

It depends on the spells, but I would say that a partial progression would go a long way toward fixing the monk. I say that their casting should be based off of Constitution, just to be different & to cut down on their already-crazy MAD. Also, these should be divine spells, but no healing & no polymorphing. A unique spell list is probably in order. Hmmm...

<runs off to ponder>

[Tavar]

Why not Wisdom? I mean, it's already a spellcasting stat, especially for divine casters.

[Dimers]

I have been considering the idea of giving monks the delayed spell progression, similliar to paladins and rangers, likely divine with access to only a few domains (strength, law, maybe war). Any input pro or con?

Pro. I'd leave out the domains entirely; that concept is mostly for differentiating one full caster from another. Give them their own spell list, like ranger, paladin, and Oriental Adventures sohei. I agree with Lycanthromancer that psi is more fitting, particularly psychic warrior powers, but if you go that route I'd still recommend custom-fitting a list of powers available to the class.

[Emmerask]

I still don't understand what everyone's deal is with monks. They're a great class filled with a ton of abilities.

they are not overpowered so by internetz logic they are crap ;)

Anyway monk is good for a few level dip (same as fighter, ranger, paladin)
your fists are considered natural weapons (for spells etc) only class that gets that and you can buy the sparing dummy of the master (10' instead of 5') those two abilities alone make a 2 level monk dip quite good actually.
oh and two okayish feats on top of that ;)

Yes 20 level monk is not good... worse then 20 level fighter actually but who cares no one does a 20 level monk or fighter build anyway

As for the monk with delayed divine spells why? make a monk/cleric/sacred fist and be done with it...

[Pharaoh's Fist]

they are not overpowered so by internetz logic they are crap ;)

Rogues, Binders, and Warlocks aren't OP either, and they get much more love than Monks do.

*Hugs Iago the Warlock/Binder/Hellfire Warlock 's character sheet.*

[Edea]

Also, replace with swordsage. Done.

Seriously. The only problem's that ToB itself causes people to take up their pitchforks o_o.

[Volos]

Monks are combat based, they do not need spells.

[Lycanthromancer]

Monks are combat based, they do not need spells.

Err...What?

[Tavar]

Monks are combat based, they do not need spells.

Spells make you better at combat. I see no contradiction here.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Monks are combat based, they do not need spells.

I think what he is trying to say is that martial classes do not need spells.

Which does not make sense given the presence of the Paladin and Ranger... unless they are not combat based?

[Lycanthromancer]

So you don't see how this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this and this could make a monk a more viable combatant?