Saving Christmas Using Caltrops- A Valentine's Day Guide

[OracleofWuffing]

An... initially innocent question asked elsewhere kind of developed into a significant threadjack, so this topic is about doing silly things involving caltrops. I'll try to summarize the key points in the other topic to the best of my abilities, I'm certain I will miss anything and apologize in advance. Apology. There may be a few catgirls killed in this topic, even this very post, but I won't apologize in advance for that. Not apology. In case the title of the thread doesn't make it clear, the entire idea is supposed to be a sort of thing, so please don't take things too seriously. If something sounds too serious, I encourage sarcasm tags and/or smilies where appropriate.

Without further adieu, it was pretty well concluded that an ordinary bag of caltrops could be spread on a five-foot square as a free action. The reasoning behind this is that the Player's Handbook does not indicate what kind of an action it is, dropping things is a free action, and caltrops will always point upwards when they land.

Now, let's say you took the Quick Draw feat. For whatever reason. The Quick Draw feat says that you can draw a weapon as a free action. Now, you can't really draw a bag of caltrops using quick draw, as a bag of caltrops is listed as gear and not weapons.

Here's where things start getting . Let's use caltrops as improvised weapons. Caltrops are objects, and they're not made for combat, so they can apparently be used as improvised weapons. Since an improvised weapon is a type of weapon, you can draw caltrops using quick draw. Yes, this also means you can draw anything you have using Quick Draw, including maybe the entire material plane, but that's a topic for someone else to discuss.

Next comes the part. There isn't a RAW guide for how many caltrops are in a bag of caltrops (It should be noted that Curmudgeon, who is more talented than I at making caltrops, came to the conclusion that there should be up to roughly seven of them, going by real-world metrics). RAW does say, however, that a two-pound bag fills a five-foot square. So, if you have a bag of caltrops, it is possible that that bag contains only two one-pound caltrops, which are enough to fill a five-foot square.

So, using this abomination of RAW and logic abandonment, you can draw two caltrops as a free action (a total of two free actions), drop them as a free action (a total of four free actions), and they'll act just like caltrops that you've spread out on the floor. From there, do whatever.

As with other things on the internet, this has accumulated it's share of , so here's a few aspects of that:

One could say that Quick Draw should be limited to "actual" weapons. While this is a possible solution, I don't really like the idea of declaring things as "weapons" and "not weapons" on the fly. Especially with Drunken Masters about.

One could say that spreading caltrops should be a standard action. This is claimed to reduce their effectiveness in combat. However, the Bag of Endless Caltrops, in Arms and Equipment Guide and again in Magic Item Compendium, creates mundane caltrops which require a standard action to spread. Naturally, whether this applies to the Bag of Caltrops is up for DM interpretation, and I'd lean to say most DMs would say yes. But again, this is a topic, and I'm going to run this out as far as I can.

You could run into a "reasonable limit of free actions" using this nonoptimal joke of a strategy, but the involved parties, we can safely assume that the limit is somewhere between two to thirty free actions per round. As you only need four free actions to pull this off once, I'm comfortable with that range.

Now, logically, using such a small amount of caltrops to cover a five-foot square should be less effective than using a nice sevenish caltrops. Yes, that's how things work in the real world, and that's probably what a DM is going to say. But the book says it's the weight of caltrops you use, not the number.

It might be a better idea to just avoid all this hoop-jumping and create a new spring-loaded type caltrop, shove it into a weapon sheath, and call it a day. The two things I have against that line of thought is that I like fiddling with the existing rules, and even if I did go that route, I'd rather go all the way and create magic magictrops which magically produce the same effect as caltrops and magically cost the same as a bag of caltrops, they also magically spread themselves and magically regenerate, they magically work in an antimagic field, and they can be enchanted with magic- just that I can't have a familiar when I want to use that item.

So, all that explained, anywhere else anyone wants to run with this? I'd really like to see some larger shenanigans done with this sort of thinking.

[sofawall]

just that I can't have a familiar when I want to use that item.

I see what you did there.

[Volos]

-dies laughing, having failed his will save-

[Rasman]

my assumption with Caltrops is that they're like Jacks because they behave similarly, with a two pound bag of jacks, if they were made of metal, especially if they were to cover a 5 foot square, I would assume that there would be around 32 caltrops, each weighing around 1 oz a piece

something doesn't have to weigh a lot to hurt, applying enough force with something small can do more damage than applying the same amount of force with something larger

try stepping on a tack and then stepping on a tent spike, with the same amount of force, tell me which one hurts worse

my point being that, in this case, "size does matter"

...wait...was this even part of the question...was there a question?

[Korivan]

See, when I saw the title I immediatly thought of someone using caltrops on thier roofs to deter obeace pajama wearing men that habitualy break into peoples houses and run sweat shops in near-unlivible climates.

Yes, I know my spelling sucks

[Curmudgeon]

try stepping on a tack and then stepping on a tent spike, with the same amount of force, tell me which one hurts worse

With heavy-soled combat boots? I'll step on as many tacks as you like (and probably not even notice). And if you tried to make a tack out of soft iron rather than steel even slippers would be enough protection. But that sharpened tent spike would put a serious crimp in my dancing prospects.

Size does matter. Too small and they won't penetrate footwear. And if you make really big caltrops 2 pounds' worth will cover hardly any ground and will be easy to see and avoid.

[Darrin]

I'm tempted to repost all my caltrop-musings over here... but I should probably just link to them instead.

One more Caltrop idea before I toss out another horrible attempt at derailment... really more of a trivia question:

The rules are frustratingly vague on what type of action is required to spread caltrops. Can anyone identify the only official source of how long it takes to clear a 5' square of caltrops?

(And yes, there is an official source, but dagnabbit it's a wee bit obscure.)

Oh, and the derailment: I've always wanted to do something with the Caber, another one of those odd battlefield control weapons. Add the Sizing property, or equip a Hengeyokai sparrow Master Thrower/Bloodstorm Blade build with a bunch of fine-sized Cabers, and by RAW they do 2d6 damage to anyone who can't get out of their way.

[Set]

Make caltrops out of bone. And then animate them into fine skeletal caltrop swarms that move around under their own power, so that they are nearly impossible to avoid, as they scramble to get under your feet.

[Vizzerdrix]

caltrop.... magically.... familiar.....

.........

...!

Oh god! I have it! what we need to to somehow get animated caltrops AS a familiar! Then you can get the spredding of them down to a free action, by having them climb on you while constantly readying an action to let go.


Side Note: I do like the thought of a bag of caltrops as a familiar. I shall have to work on this some time this week and report my findings.

[Tyndmyr]

There's also jumping caltrops. MiC. Like a whopping 300g.

Vastly easier way to get moving caltrops than familiar shenanigans.

[Darrin]

No guesses, eh?

Deep Horizon, p. 5: "It takes a full-round action to sweep a square clean of caltrops."

How about this... take a variation of my King of Pong build, and use Sweeping Strike to throw the caltrops at the square my opponent is occupying and the one behind him. By thoroughly ignoring a little RAW and quite a lot of RAMS, I get an improvised thrown/melee attack with the equivalent of a 2 lb. object (1d4 + Str/PA/etc.). Since my opponent is being attacked in a square with caltrops, they get an attack against him. I bull-rush him into the square behind him, and the caltrops get another attack. The caltrops automatically return to my hand as a free action, so I can repeat this for each iterative attack I have.

Needs a good name, though:
"King of Poptabs"
"Full Metal Flipflop"
"Fist Full of Thumbtacks"
"The Red Stapler of Doom"
"Iron Piranha Tornado"

[erikun]

Actually, if you're quick draw/dropping caltrops, you'll end up with a pile of caltrops next to you, not a bunch of them spread out to fill a 5'-square. I'm not sure how long it would take to kick them out of fill the space, but probably the same time as it takes to spread them normally.

As for myself, my gnome wizard is trying to learn an arcane version of Animate Object, so that he can animate a bag of caltrops to run around the battlefield on their own. Also, to create a permanent Animate Rope.