Monk Fix #2 Adding Wisdom to attacks

[Darcand]

In much the same way that wisdom is added to a monk's AC I am thinking I would like to start adding it to his attack rolls two levels later and again to damage two levels after that, in an effort to provide a little more single stat focus.

With my proposed spell progression being wisdom based that would make wis the primary stat for defense, offense, and casting progression.

Again, any imput pro or con.

[root9125]

I have 3 messages for you that you will likely be receiving multiple times:

Obligatory "Is it that time of the week ALREADY?"

Obligatory "Just use unarmed swordsage."

Obligatory "Use the search function for ALL THE MONK THREADS ALREADY OUT THERE."

And to answer your question, no, Monk needs more than that.

[Dimers]

And a serious response, if unenlightening ... if you're already adding 6th-level spells based on a stat that helps to reduce MAD, that may be enough. It wouldn't make the monk overpowered compared to the primary casters discussed in this forum, but it could certainly be overpowered in some game worlds or among some groups. Particularly in combination with Zen Archery or Intuitive Attack, it could make the monk beat the "good" BAB progression pretty easily, though it would still lag somewhat behind in potential damage output compared to dedicated warrior-types. If you choose to use such a bonus, I'd recommend making it of a type that would overlap with one of the spells the monk will be able to cast, so that the sum doesn't run away. But I'm not in your brain, and I don't know how much more power you want the class to have.

Keep in mind the entry requirements and benefits of the Sacred Fist PrC while you're doing this redesign.

[Demons_eye]

It depends on your group. To a casual group no, to a high powered group yes.

[sonofzeal]

That could be interesting. Doesn't really solve the half-dozen problems the class faces, but makes them suck a little less. Really though, it's a small fix and a few extra point of Attack won't do much (since they lack PA options) and a few extra points of damage are hardly going to matter all that much either.

My fix - Full BAB, Flurry as a Standard Action. Possibly Spring Attack at 8th level. Gives them better offence and the ability to actually be mobile hit-and-run strikers.

[Rasman]

That could be interesting. Doesn't really solve the half-dozen problems the class faces, but makes them suck a little less. Really though, it's a small fix and a few extra point of Attack won't do much (since they lack PA options) and a few extra points of damage are hardly going to matter all that much either.

My fix - Full BAB, Flurry as a Standard Action. Possibly Spring Attack at 8th level. Gives them better offence and the ability to actually be mobile hit-and-run strikers.

Spring Attack as a free Feat would be nice, it's hard enough as is without having to burn feats on it, Pathfinder KIND OF fixes this and you get it at 10th level as a Monk Bonus Feat.

Frankly, if you're trying to decrease the MAD of a monk, Taking all the Strength based stats and turning them to the Dex and all Int based abilities and turning them to Wis would be my fix. That way you're really focusing on two stats, which isn't terrible. Giving monks something to help with AC would be stellar or an "Iron Shirt" ability that, as a defensive action, allows a monk to flex the muscles of his body as he's taking a physical strike, increasing his AC by 1/2, this can only be used once per hour. Something like that. I just feel that Monks don't have an "OH ****" button.

[sofawall]

Spring Attack as a free Feat would be nice, it's hard enough as is without having to burn feats on it, Pathfinder KIND OF fixes this and you get it at 10th level as a Monk Bonus Feat.

Frankly, if you're trying to decrease the MAD of a monk, Taking all the Strength based stats and turning them to the Dex and all Int based abilities and turning them to Wis would be my fix. That way you're really focusing on two stats, which isn't terrible. Giving monks something to help with AC would be stellar or an "Iron Shirt" ability that, as a defensive action, allows a monk to flex the muscles of his body as he's taking a physical strike, increasing his AC by 1/2, this can only be used once per hour. Something like that. I just feel that Monks don't have an "OH ****" button.

Dimension Door, which is more of an OH **** button than the fighter, Barbarian, Ranger or Paladin get, for example.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Rangers get Horizonwalker, which gets DD.

[sofawall]

Rangers get Horizonwalker, which gets DD.

Didn't we recently discuss how multiclassing doesn't show the power of a base class?

Although Ranger is the logical entry.

[Person_Man]

From the X to Y thread:

Wisdom

Spoiler

Show

{table=head]Name | Type | Book |

Page #

|

Edition

| Bonus | Notes
Illumian (Aeshhoon) | Race | Races of Destiny |

54

|

3.5

| Damage | uses Turn attempt
Illumian (Uurhuun) | Race | Races of Destiny |

54

|

3.5

| Reflex Saves | -
Saint (+2 LA) | Template | BoED |

185

|

3.5

| AC | -
Battlesmith 1 | PrC | Races of Stone |

96

|

3.5

| Damage | -
Citadel Elite 5 | PrC | Sharn |

165

|

3.5

| Fort Saves | -
Cloud Anchorite | PrC | Frostburn |

52

|

3.5

| Balance, Climb, & Jump | -
Dragon Warrior 1 | PrC | Dragon #298 |

104

|

3.0

| Hit Points | -
Dragon Warrior 2 | PrC | Dragon #298 |

104

|

3.0

| AC | -
Hunter of the Dead 3 | PrC | Complete Warrior |

43

|

3.5

| Saves | vs. Undead spells & effects
Impure Prince 4 | PrC | Magic of Eberron |

74

|

3.5

| Fort Saves | Replaces Con
Mantis Mercenary 5 | PrC | Oriental Adventures |

231

|

3.0

| AC | from Dodge feat target only
Monk 1 | Class | PHB |

39

|

3.5

| AC | doesn't stack with Ninja
Moon-Warded Ranger 2 | Sub level | Dragon #340 |

55

|

3.5

| AC | as Monk
Mortal Hunter 5 | PrC | BoVD |

65

|

3.5

| Saves | vs. Spells
Ninja 1 | Class | Complete Adventurer |

5

|

3.5

| AC | doesn't stack with Monk
Ordained Champion 5 | PrC | Complete Champion |

91

|

3.5

| To-Hit | replaces Str, uses Turn attempts
Ordained Champion 5 | PrC | Complete Champion |

91

|

3.5

| Damage | replaces Str, uses Turn attempts
Perfected One | PrC | Dragon #297 |

56

|

3.5

| Reflex Saves | while unarmored
Sacred Fist 4 | PrC | Complete Divine |

59

|

3.5

| Damage | -
Shiba Protector 1 | PrC | Oriental Adventures |

222

|

3.0

| To-Hit | -
Shiba Protector 1 | PrC | Oriental Adventures |

222

|

3.0

| Damage | -
Shifter Druid 5 | Sub level | Races of Eberron |

127

|

3.5

| Wildshape | Replaces Con to determine duration
Shifter Ranger 1 | Sub level | Races of Eberron |

128

|

3.5

| Wild Empathy | Replaces Cha
Soulbow 1 | PrC | Complete Psionics |

36

|

3.5

| Damage | with Mind Arrows
Sword Sage 2 | Class | Tome of Battle |

16

|

3.5

| AC | while in light armor
Sword Sage 4 & 12 | Class | Tome of Battle |

16

|

3.5

| Damage | on Strikes from chosen Discipline
Dungeoneers Intuition | Feat | Waterdeep |

144

|

3.5

| AC | for Trapsense AC only
Intuitive Strike | | BoED |

44

|

3.5

| To-Hit | -
Serenity | | Dragon Mag #306, Drag Comp |

106

|

3.5

| Saves | Replaces Wis for Cha for all Paladin Abilities
Serenity | | Dragon Mag #306, Drag Comp |

106

|

3.5

| To-Hit | On Smite Evil, limited uses, replaces Wis for Cha for all Paladin Abilities
Yondalla's Sense | | Races of the Wild |

152

|

3.5

| Initiative | -
Zen Archery | | Complete Warrior |

106

|

3.5

| To-Hit | Ranged
Monk's Belt | Equipment | DMG |

248

|

3.5

| AC | as Monk
Balance | Domain | Player's Guide to Faerun |

84

|

3.5

| AC | 1 rd per lvl, 1/day
Watery Death | Domain | Player's Guide to Faerun |

92

|

3.5

| To-Hit | On Smite, limited use, aquatic creatures only.
[/table]

I'd see nothing wrong with making Monks Wis SAD, since you can pretty much do it within the existing rules anyway.

[dyslexicfaser]

Me, I'd like a factotum-like ability to add Wis modifier to your athletic skills. If I'm going to be sacrificing power to play as Bruce Lee, I want to at least do a reasonable facsimile.