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    Default [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Just an idle question at the moment since I don't get in many campaigns, but in your opinion, what are the best methods of protecting a lich's phylactery?

    Though not strictly nessicary, I'd prefer it if you kept your schemes to the core books.

    My current thought is to find some object-targeting variation on contingency, then have it set to send of a couple dozen high-level doom spells and teleport back to me if it ever takes any damage. (Problem being, of course, that contingency has SEVERAL limiting factors that keep me from doing precisely that.

    Or, make the phylactery out of adamantium, disguise it as a random rock, protect it from any kind of scrying I can think of, then go out into the middle of a mountain range and drop it. Or in the ocean. Or on another plane. Or in the middle of a mountain range in the ocean of another plane.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Traps. Lots of 'em. Make the Phylactery itself a self-resetting trap of some sort. Also, a permanent Magic Aura spell to disguise its nature would help.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Whatever you do, make any protections from scrying exclude your spells.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Plane where Transmutation and Abjuration are prevented, with no gravity, probably achieved through Genesis. Cube of Walls of Force. Place inside a constant-effect Dimension Lock item, that can be deactivated for 1 round at a time, and a backup spellbook. Should be fairly invulnerable.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Akushin Oka View Post
    Just an idle question at the moment since I don't get in many campaigns, but in your opinion, what are the best methods of protecting a lich's phylactery?
    Drop it in an outhouse.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh's Fist View Post
    Drop it in an outhouse.
    Considering how adventures slug it out in sewers and dank dungeons with oozes and otyughs, I don't think fecal matter is a good enough defense. All the wizard needs to do is cast Prestidigitation afterwards.


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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    ... make it a gp piece, wear something else that looks like it must be a phylactry.

    (this may not be supported by RAW or RAI, but the look the players faces when a lich shows up in the loot bag is hilarious)
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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    My best mechanism so far: Find the Artifact that preserves the multiverse (if there is such a device in your universe). Sealed evil in a Can, keystone of creation, whatever it happens to be. Make it a phylactery. Point out to extraplanar GOOD forces that it's destruction will necessitate the death of the universe as a logical consequence, then hand it over to your mortal enemies (without telling them it's the phylactery, and after making sure they aren't with any nihilistic cults) as a sign of good faith.

    Word of advice though. Keep it from the inevitables. The whole "Everyone must Die" thing means that the Marut are actually okay with killing the multiverse to get to you as a matter of dogma. I recommend Celestia as a good place to invest in securities.

    And the best part is even if someone tries to destroy you the armies of heaven will show up to stop them, or a ragtag band of misfits will foil their plan, or what have you.

    The DM's options for getting rid of you boil down to "Sigh, okay, tag back in in... 4 days." or "Rocks fall, everyone dies." And if it's for an NPC, you get to prevent the players with a Sadistic Choice.
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    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    My best mechanism so far: Find the Artifact that preserves the multiverse (if there is such a device in your universe). Sealed evil in a Can, keystone of creation, whatever it happens to be. Make it a phylactery. Point out to extraplanar GOOD forces that it's destruction will necessitate the death of the universe as a logical consequence, then hand it over to your mortal enemies (without telling them it's the phylactery, and after making sure they aren't with any nihilistic cults) as a sign of good faith.

    Word of advice though. Keep it from the inevitables. The whole "Everyone must Die" thing means that the Marut are actually okay with killing the multiverse to get to you as a matter of dogma. I recommend Celestia as a good place to invest in securities.

    And the best part is even if someone tries to destroy you the armies of heaven will show up to stop them, or a ragtag band of misfits will foil their plan, or what have you.

    The DM's options for getting rid of you boil down to "Sigh, okay, tag back in in... 4 days." or "Rocks fall, everyone dies." And if it's for an NPC, you get to prevent the players with a Sadistic Choice.
    Death is not the only way of destroying someone in D&D. Flesh to Stone no longer works, but Rope Trick+Imprisonment does, as I'm sure similar effects still do.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    Death is not the only way of destroying someone in D&D. Flesh to Stone no longer works, but Rope Trick+Imprisonment does, as I'm sure similar effects still do.
    Sing it with me: CONTINGENCIES!!!! Freedom is an okay one, but if you're letting anyone in touch range of you anyway you have other problems. And you can always contingency a destroy undead spell on yourself. Melting your own face off to avoid defeat may be unpleasant, but it is effective.

    Edit: Undeath to Death is what I was thinking of. Target yourself, voluntarily fail the save.
    Last edited by golentan; 2009-11-15 at 12:25 AM.
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    My motto: Repensum Est Canicula.

    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    Plane where Transmutation and Abjuration are prevented, with no gravity, probably achieved through Genesis. Cube of Walls of Force. Place inside a constant-effect Dimension Lock item, that can be deactivated for 1 round at a time, and a backup spellbook. Should be fairly invulnerable.
    Make the phylactery the backup spellbook. Also, memorize, but never write down, the location of the isolated plane/demiplane. If your main lair is raided by adventurers and the phylactery's location is inscribed somewhere nearby, they may be able to get in before you regenerate.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by AslanCross View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh's Fist View Post
    Drop it in an outhouse.
    Considering how adventures slug it out in sewers and dank dungeons with oozes and otyughs, I don't think fecal matter is a good enough defense. All the wizard needs to do is cast Prestidigitation afterwards.
    I think that basically that phylactery defense is a mug's game was his estimation of the scenario.

    Personally I like the lark of turning the phylactery into an innocent, immortal person and one's self into an angelic being of some sort, rescuing a kingdom that you may or may not have rigged to be in peril and kingless, and establishing oneself as the savior king.

    Engineer phylactery as royal princess daughter, and so on and so forth.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Secret Chest?

    Or something more off the wall... making your phylactery be another lich?

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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    I think that basically that phylactery defense is a mug's game was his estimation of the scenario.

    Personally I like the lark of turning the phylactery into an innocent, immortal person and one's self into an angelic being of some sort, rescuing a kingdom that you may or may not have rigged to be in peril and kingless, and establishing oneself as the savior king.

    Engineer phylactery as royal princess daughter, and so on and so forth.
    But, see, then you'd be the Evil Overlord(lady). And she'd be your Beautiful Daughter. The one the hero is obligated to seduce. Do you really want the hero doing that to your soul? A bit necroerotic, no? Plus she might kill herself to stop your reign of tyranny. My general rule is only give free willed beings power of life and death over you by their life if you have power over something worth more than their life over them. Plus, people will have accidents, I'd rather not entrust the well being of my soul to whether or not someone always doublechecks before crossing the street, ya know?
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    My motto: Repensum Est Canicula.

    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    I think I recall a protection involving polymorph, petrify, transmute rock to mud, and then tossing the mud into the ocean. The only real problem here is where do you respawn at when your phylactery is strewn across the world?
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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    Secret Chest?

    Or something more off the wall... making your phylactery be another lich?
    I've seen this before. Where the other Lich is your phylactery. And you are his. Works best if it is like spelljammer where you can be ANYWHERE.

    Also someone on here once mentioned a Dry lich with the 5 phylactries. Sounded like fun. PAO them twice into princess, start up rumors about the 5 princesses of the desert which never age. Make sure they are LG/etc so no one suspects them. I'm setting up a campaign arc around this, see how long it takes my party to figure it out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    How about a variation on the Psionic Save Game hack?

    The Phylactery is a canister filled with Quintessence, topped off with a self-resetting trap of Forced Dream. Drop someone in, and the Phylactery manifests Forced Dream on them and then locks them out of time.

    Killing you makes you respawn near the phylactery, as normal. Destroying the phylactery frees the prisoner inside, then your Dominate/Mindrape/Programmed Amnesia kicks in and they immediately activate Forced Dream. The last however many thousand years retroactively never happened, and time resets to right before you dropped the guy in.

    I think if you make the whole thing out of Riverine, any effect that could disenchant the Phylactery-ness of your Phylactery will also set off the time-bomb.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Greater teleport to the moon (less atmosphere to blur the sight of the next part), with supplies to build a rather large observatory. Using the observatory, locate a suitably distant nondestructive cosmic body, preferably a different moon. Greater teleport there. Repeat until bored. Use one of the methods of another poster on said moon.
    Greater Teleport to each observatory and deconstruct it.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    In a forgoten rhelms book, a lich created a large, powerfull golem, that when damaged, broke apart and became many smaller, still very dangerous golems. Then within a chunk that didn't break apart, hid a permenent prismatic sphere, protecting the phylactery.

    As a joke...i hope, someone come up with an undead tarresque. i think this trick was done in 2nd edition, i dont really recall. Anyways, make it out of an item immune to acid, and EXTREMELY resistent to being crushed, wear it, and use Fly to dive right in its mouth. A combinationg of DR and Acid immunity spells should see you long enough to imbed the Xitem into its body, let its awsome regen powers seal up your thingy. Use the big T as your next body. Never played as a lich or fought the big T in 3rd edition, so not sure if it works.

    Also, I like the idea from the forgotten realms book (war of the spider queen i think), but make it a adamantium golem, give it the ability to rust everything except itself (variation of the Blueshine ability from MIC), along with some support from various traps, monsters, hidden locations, magic defenses, and the complete lack of telling anyone. Do some research on some areas that you've never been to personally, pick a nice hazardus place thats toxic, radioactive, etc, build the dungeon of death, then use whatever means you have to kill your builders, and prevent thier souls from going to the underworld.

    And remember, this is your characters life, would he/she spare any expense to get the best defense?
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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Greater teleport doesn't work that way. Only for the planet. There is a ninth level spell in a pathfinder module for that, or wish could do it.

    At least that is my understanding of "plane." Spelljammer seems to make it clear that a planet is a planet, not a crystal sphere.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    I've seen this before. Where the other Lich is your phylactery. And you are his. Works best if it is like spelljammer where you can be ANYWHERE.
    Tal no lookie
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    My original idea was a group of 5 Lich casters, including a Blackguard, Cleric, Beguiler, Wizard, and Bard. They adventured together before falling to evil, and trust no one other than each other. Any deaths, and the Beguiler and Bard vanish, Wizard goes Batman, and the Cleric and Blackguard go hunting.
    And my group thinks our current DM runs evil casters. :D
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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    In a forgoten rhelms book, a lich created a large, powerfull golem, that when damaged, broke apart and became many smaller, still very dangerous golems. Then within a chunk that didn't break apart, hid a permenent prismatic sphere, protecting the phylactery.
    I love that series. War of the Spider Queen. I think that's the fifth book, but I could be wrong. I was thinking the same thing for defenses...hehe. Wasn't there something else, for when someone did get through the sphere? Like an explosion?
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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    Tal no lookie
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    My original idea was a group of 5 Lich casters, including a Blackguard, Cleric, Beguiler, Wizard, and Bard. They adventured together before falling to evil, and trust no one other than each other. Any deaths, and the Beguiler and Bard vanish, Wizard goes Batman, and the Cleric and Blackguard go hunting.
    And my group thinks our current DM runs evil casters. :D
    Surprised ya'll don't hide in individual demiplanes with a permanent nightmare bodyguard/caster of astral projection.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alabenson
    Evil Intelligence is knowing the precise ritual that will allow you to destroy the peaceful kingdom that banished you.

    Evil Wisdom is understanding that you probably shouldn’t perform said ritual while you’re standing in the estimated blast radius.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Surprised ya'll don't hide in individual demiplanes with a permanent nightmare bodyguard/caster of astral projection.
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    That's the Wizard's plan, but if you can beat those defenses on one, you can beat them on the rest, so they all use different survival methods.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Temotei221 View Post
    I love that series. War of the Spider Queen. I think that's the fifth book, but I could be wrong. I was thinking the same thing for defenses...hehe. Wasn't there something else, for when someone did get through the sphere? Like an explosion?
    good knowledge check (FR Books), forgot about that, ya, something about glyphs or something that were linked to the whole house, that regrew after being dispelled. Would have killed the drow too but for contingency teleport I believe. Good lessen learned, have a dimensional lock on the area, don't want that mage escaping.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by BobVosh View Post
    Greater teleport doesn't work that way. Only for the planet. There is a ninth level spell in a pathfinder module for that, or wish could do it.

    At least that is my understanding of "plane." Spelljammer seems to make it clear that a planet is a planet, not a crystal sphere.
    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm

    I see only a suggestion that "separate planes are like planets". I do not see any restriction further than this.
    In fact, other places in the SRD suggest that planes and planets are wholly separate. For example, "The Void" card description or the Well of Many Worlds.
    Avatar by Alarra

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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Coidzor View Post
    Personally I like the lark of turning the phylactery into an innocent, immortal person and one's self into an angelic being of some sort, rescuing a kingdom that you may or may not have rigged to be in peril and kingless, and establishing oneself as the savior king.

    Engineer phylactery as royal princess daughter, and so on and so forth.
    Personally, i think it's much more fun to contrive it so all the evidence points to your phylactery being a royal princess or innocent maiden. Thus when the brave knight overcomes the moral dilemma and finally brings himself to kill her, you can show up and laugh at him.

    Good times

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    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    Truth be told, my guess is that you have more or less two... maybe three options with phylacteries.

    One, make your phylactery out of something completely nondescript and hide it somewhere completely nondescript. Hells, the One Ring managed to stay hidden for 3000 years because it fell in a pond. And this is a shiny semi-sentient artifact that WANTS to be found. Now take a random rock that DOESN'T want to be found. Chances are reasonably good that no one is going to find it anytime soon. The only possible flaw is that a particularly stubborn hunter might repeatedly kill you and narrow down it's location based on where you're first spotted upon resurrecting. (This could be avoided by teleportation or not simply not being a high-profile individual. Not particularly an option for my character, who's a cleric intending on being a quasi-benevolent dictator pretending to not be undead. [Lawful Evil, though more of a Well-Intentioned Extremist.] Not terribly relevent to the main discussion, but it certaintly plays into my decision making.)

    Two, make your phylactery into whatever, but then ward the **** out of it. Place it on a different plane, put up loads of protective enchantments and explody things to discourage would-be destroyers of your soul-hidey place, surround it with constructs with the direction of "kill anyone who enters this room who isn't me." The works. The reason I would consider this one kind of impractical is that phylacteries make you regenerate near by them. If you decided that it would be stuffed inside a prismatic sphere, this could be inconvienient. Another thing to consider, especially if you're a PC Lich, is to NOT take from the DM's artifact-protecting dungeon design book. Those generally are designed as vaguely survivable. Chances are you want yours to make the Tomb of Horrors look cuddly. The exception, of course, is to make it so YOU can LEAVE. Being immortal is totally awesome when you can't leave your room lest ye be evicerated in seventeen different ways and promptly respawned back in your room.

    Third, and probably the most risky in my opinion, would be to make your phylactery into something the good guys don't WANT destroyed. The cosmic keystone, sealed evil in a can, whatever the campaign's MacGuffin happens to be (so long as it isn't a "destroy the MacGuffin" type quest). The risky part comes in where you have to tell everyone that the object that keeps you not dead exists at all. Obviously with type 2 the Giant Fortress of Certain Horrible Death that suddenly popped up on the Plane of Unpleasantness might draw some attention, but since Unpleasant Certain Horrible Death happens to anyone who so much looks at it sideways is going to be turned into red mist, not much of a problem. Having the Shiny Thing that Keeps The Existance Existing be your soul-hidey place may keep the heroes off of it, but now all the doomsday cults want to smash it. Then again, if it is smashed, your inability to respawn is pretty much moot, so I suppose it's a sound theory. (Assuming, of course, you are even capable of obtaining said important thing, which being theoretically Something Very Important might not be as easy as it sounds.)

    My, look at all that text. Right, I'll let you have your say now.
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  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location

    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    If it's not sequestered Vision, legend lore or even divination can find it (lead doesn't help, those are not of the scrying subschool).

    So to truly hide a phylactery you need someone with mind blank continuously active (otherwise you can simply divine your way to the guy casting sequester) to cast sequester on it each week ... oh and you have to find a way to force your phylactery to fail it's save against the sequester.
    Last edited by PinkysBrain; 2009-11-15 at 08:32 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Imp

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Belgium
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [3.5] Phylactery Defense

    • Take a kobold.
    • Cast Dominate Person on him.
    • Cast Mind Blank on him
    • Give him your phylactery.
    • Cast Imprisonment on him.
    • Cast Discern Location to know where he is now.
    • Cast Greater Scrying to look at the area.
    • Cast Greater Teleport to get there.


    If you can, take the sphere to another place
    A room, 30ft x30ft, where you'll cast the following spells :
    • Forbiddance
    • Permanency + Symbol of Death
    • Permanency + Mage’s private sanctum


    Add a Simulacrum of yourself, with a easily breakable item on which you'll cast "Refuge" and a ring of Sustenance. The Simulacrum is attuned to the Symbol and is instructed to break the Refuge item whenever somebody enters the room and survive. This will teleport you back.

    If you can't take the sphere yourself, "Wish" for the sphere to be teleported right at your side. Then proceed with the room.
    Last edited by Johel; 2009-11-15 at 09:18 AM.

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