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Thread: 3.5 Enervation

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    Default 3.5 Enervation

    I have searched and have been unable to find the answer to this.

    If I split ray an enervation, Can I target the same person with both and have them stack?
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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Yes.

    Anything else?

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    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Enervation does stack with itself. What you're describing should work fine.
    "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." Kurt Vonnegut

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    It's nasty, what can I say? One of the major reasons I like to give rays a range increment, so the to hit isn't as easy.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Legal, but remember the DMG has sharp corners.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Also, what goes around, comes around.

    Always.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Stacked enervation is so much tasty. I used to do this all the time. Then I hit a monster with a ray of weakness, and it got reflected back at me. So glad I wasn't using split ray with enervation or that would have gotten real ugly real fast.
    Nosce te ipsum

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Do keep in mind that many things (undead, constructs) do not react well with negative levels. And that a simple death ward spell (persisted or stuck into armor at higher levels) will defeat it. It works well - possibly too well (arcane thesis'd black-lore-of-moil split ray empowered twinned, for example) - when it works, but has a fair amount of things that defeat it.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Being a 1 trick pony generally doesn't end well, doesn't really matter how common are counters for your trick, enemies will hear about your signature move and will find ways to counter it..
    A wise monk trains both mind and body, but a smart monk is actually a swordsage.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Yah. But the beauty of being a wizard is that you can change your tricks every day! Empowered Split-Ray Enervation one day, Widened Solid Fog the next.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Fell Drain, the poor man's enervation, is also great. Tack it on a magic missile or the like, and it's excellent at spreading negative levels around to multiple targets.

    Note that while it doesn't stack with itself on a single spell, using something like twin spell can make a single casting of a fell drained spell remove multiple levels per target.

    Sadly, unless you get crazy with snowcasting and flash frost, you can't fell drain an enervation. You can maximize and empower it, though.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Fell Drain, the poor man's enervation, is also great. Tack it on a magic missile or the like, and it's excellent at spreading negative levels around to multiple targets.

    Note that while it doesn't stack with itself on a single spell, using something like twin spell can make a single casting of a fell drained spell remove multiple levels per target.

    Sadly, unless you get crazy with snowcasting and flash frost, you can't fell drain an enervation. You can maximize and empower it, though.
    Actually, Enervation deals 5 points of damage normally. No need for snowcasting.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sstoopidtallkid View Post
    Actually, Enervation deals 5 points of damage normally. No need for snowcasting.
    Not precisely. the -5hp from taking a negative level isn't classified as damage. it's classified as a penalty, meaning it comes back when/if the neg level wears off.

    From the SRD
    A creature takes the following penalties for each negative level it has gained:

    -1 on all skill checks and ability checks.
    -1 on attack rolls and saving throws.
    -5 hit points.
    -1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level).
    If the victim casts spells, she loses access to one spell as if she had cast her highest-level, currently available spell. (If she has more than one spell at her highest level, she chooses which she loses.) In addition, when she next prepares spells or regains spell slots, she gets one less spell slot at her highest spell level.
    emphasis mine.
    Last edited by mabriss lethe; 2009-11-17 at 06:37 PM.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Where can one find this Fell drain?
    Is it like a metamagic feat or something?
    Last edited by Gamerlord; 2009-11-17 at 06:46 PM.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Quote Originally Posted by gamerkid View Post
    Where can one find this Fell drain?
    Is it like a metamagic feat or something?
    It's Metamagic from Libris Mortis:The Book of Bad Latin. +2 spell level, deals 1 neg level to any foe damaged by the spell.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sleepingbear View Post
    Also, what goes around, comes around.

    Always.
    +1.

    if you spread a lot of split/twined/metamagic'd up the wazoo Enervation around, expect the DM to send some your way sooner or later.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    So Death Ward would probably be in order then.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    If you have Death Ward, so too should your enemy.

    In fact, Deathward is "that one spell" that my opponents always prepare and cast on themselves. It's an incredibly powerful spell and very good at what it does.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    It's fairly powerful, but any reasonably intelligent spellcaster enemy is going to have Death Ward prepared, so it's only useful against mooks and such, or against fighting-types that don't have Death Ward.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazrasa View Post
    It's fairly powerful, but any reasonably intelligent spellcaster enemy is going to have Death Ward prepared, so it's only useful against mooks and such, or against fighting-types that don't have Death Ward.
    Or just a good touch armor class.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    Sadly, unless you get crazy with snowcasting and flash frost, you can't fell drain an enervation. You can maximize and empower it, though.
    Black Lore of Moil, which you should have if you're going crazy with Enervation anywho (for the -1 adjustment with Arcane Thesis). And after having gone crazy with it, the piddly 3d6 damage becomes a much more respectable 50-100 points, which should be enough to finish off the poor bastard you just drained 20 levels from.
    Last edited by lsfreak; 2009-11-17 at 08:37 PM.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    If I wanted to twink out enervation, how would I do it?

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Sadly, death ward isn't a Wizard spell.

    Ray deflection is, though.
    Play your character, not your alignment.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Quote Originally Posted by Seatbelt View Post
    If I wanted to twink out enervation, how would I do it?
    Incantrix 10, for -1 to all Metamagics and a bunch of free feats. Arcane Thesis for a further -1. Take Empower, Maximize, Quicken, Twin Spell, Black Lord of Moil, Fell Drain, and every +0 metamagic you can track down. Use the +0s to offset the cost of the +3 and higher metamagics.

    It's also a good idea to snag Arcane Thesis for another spell, just for the variety. Orb of Fire is a good idea(either take Searing Spell or Energy Sub:Frost if you go this route).
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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Human Wizard5/Incantatrix10
    Split Ray
    Empower Spell
    Black Lore of Moil
    Twin Spell
    Quicken Spell
    Arcane Thesis (Enervation)

    That's the bare-bones of it. Throw in additional metamagic reducers (Easy Metamagic: Quicken, Residual Metamagic) and additional metamagicks (Maximize, Repeat, Fell Drain) to taste. Just with the base you get effectively 12d4 negative levels a round using a 5th level and a 7th level slot.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Saying you should take Incantatrix is like saying you shoud take Planar Shepherd. It just doesn't happen due to DM fiat.

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Assuming Incantatrix is banned, and I can't add 0 level metamagics to reduce the cost for something like highten spell or whatever, whats the best you could do?


    Why is Black Lore of Moil good? For a gp expenditure I can add 2D6 damage to Enervation. Is there something there I'm missing?

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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Quote Originally Posted by Seatbelt View Post
    Assuming Incantatrix is banned, and I can't add 0 level metamagics to reduce the cost for something like highten spell or whatever, whats the best you could do?


    Why is Black Lore of Moil good? For a gp expenditure I can add 2D6 damage to Enervation. Is there something there I'm missing?
    The negative adjustment.

    Keep in mind that Arcane Thesis was errata'd and specifically still allows negative adjustments, so it is clearly RAW and RAI. Though houseruling otherwise is common.

    Also, the most broken part of Incantatrix isn't the metamagic reducers but the other stuff (persisting multiple spells with near-zero effort being one of them). The 3.0e version is allowed much more often than the 3.5 version.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Quote Originally Posted by Seatbelt View Post
    Assuming Incantatrix is banned, and I can't add 0 level metamagics to reduce the cost for something like highten spell or whatever, whats the best you could do?


    Why is Black Lore of Moil good? For a gp expenditure I can add 2D6 damage to Enervation. Is there something there I'm missing?
    That damage is boosted by all of your feats, and allows you to boost the spell with Fell Drain(which with Incant and AT becomes +0). Assuming Twin, Split, Maximize, and Empower, you turn that into 3(24+6d6). Average, additional 135 damage on your Enervation, and -1 to the spell level, at the cost of 75 GP. That's not bad at all.
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    Default Re: 3.5 Enervation

    Quote Originally Posted by John Campbell View Post
    Sadly, death ward isn't a Wizard spell.

    Ray deflection is, though.
    It's so useful though, that assuming I play with the Wish Alternate rules that make some wishes free, I'll gladly prepare a Limited Wish just for the chance of casting death ward. It's one of my favourite spell.

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