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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Base Attack Bonus in Gestalt

    Okay, this question has come up in the Neverending Dungeon Crawl thread. It's a gestalt game, and we have a question on how BaB/saves work, if you aren't using the fractional BaB rule. The example, in this case, is the following:
    fighter1/wizard19//Sorcerer20.
    What's the BaB for this character? Can you show the rules you used to come up with this.
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    Default Re: Base Attack Bonus in Gestalt

    You would take the highest on one side, so for the first level you would have the fighters BAB, then the highest of the wizard/sorcerers for the next 19 levels (which is the same), so a total of

    1 level of fighter's BAB
    19 levels of sorcerer/wizard's BAB

    Which equals +10 in total (+1 from fighter, +9 from other levels, fractional BAB or not)

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    Default Re: Base Attack Bonus in Gestalt

    You'd be better off going Sorcerer 6/Eldritch Knight 9/Abjurant Champion5.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Base Attack Bonus in Gestalt

    There are two schools of thought on this:

    A) Each time a character levels up, if either of his classes receives a BAB or save increase, his BAB and saves increase.

    With this understanding, the character's BAB would be +20, getting increases from Fighter at level 1, all other odd levels from Wiz 19, and all even levels from Sorc 20.

    B) At any given time, a character uses the BAB and saving throws of the side with the higher bonus.

    Therefore, for BAB, Side 1 is Ftr 1 / Wiz 19, which is BAB +10. Side 2 is Sorc 20, which is BAB +10.

    Under School B, you should keep strong saves/BAB on one side, rather than mixing them. To illustrate, compare two characters:

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    Sorc 6 / Wiz 6 // Fighter 6 / Paladin 6
    ~The highest BAB is the right side, with +12.
    ~The highest Fort save is the right side, with +10 (5+5)
    ~The highest Reflex save is tied, with both sides having +4 (2+2)
    ~The highest Will save is the left side with +10 (5+5)

    Sorc 6 / Paladin 6 // Wiz 6 / Fighter 6
    ~The highest BAB is tied, with +9 (3+6)
    ~The highest Fort save is tied, with +7 (5+2)
    ~The highest Reflex save is tied, with +4 (2+2)
    ~The highest Will save is tied, with +9 (6+3)

    Same levels in the same classes, but how it's written out and the order they're taken has a huge effect.


    Does that answer your question?

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    Default Re: Base Attack Bonus in Gestalt

    That's what I though.
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    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: Base Attack Bonus in Gestalt

    That is how it would work if gestalt were "calculate each entire side and then take the better". Instead it is "calculate the better of each level, then add up".

    At level 1, the better BAB is Fighter for +1.
    At level 2, the better BAB is Sorcerer level 2 for another +1 (2 total)
    At level 3, the better BAB is Wizard level 2 for another +1 (3 total)
    At level 4, the better BAB is Sorcerer level 4 for another +1 (4 total)
    and so on.

    The relevant rule is "A gestalt character follows a similar procedure when he attains 2nd and subsequent levels. Each time he gains a new level, he chooses two classes, takes the best aspects of each, and applies them to his characteristics."

    Each level's benefits are considered in isolation for determining which side is better for each benefit. Wizard level 2 is better for BAB than Sorcerer level 3, so when this hypothetical build gets to Fighter 1/Wizard 2//Sorcerer 3, it gains a point of BAB from the second Wizard level.
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    Default Re: Base Attack Bonus in Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Okay, this question has come up in the Neverending Dungeon Crawl thread. It's a gestalt game, and we have a question on how BaB/saves work, if you aren't using the fractional BaB rule.
    Seriously, if you're using gestalt, you should be using fraction BAB. It's just...not sane otherwise.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Base Attack Bonus in Gestalt

    I agree. But not everyone realizes that. And until we have a clear ruling, this issue is going to exist.
    He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
    -James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
    Satomi by Elagune

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Base Attack Bonus in Gestalt

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    The relevant rule is "A gestalt character follows a similar procedure when he attains 2nd and subsequent levels. Each time he gains a new level, he chooses two classes, takes the best aspects of each, and applies them to his characteristics."

    Each level's benefits are considered in isolation for determining which side is better for each benefit.
    This is a pretty heavily interpreted version. It's not at all an unjustified interpretation at all, but it's not actually written into the rules as such. The fact of the matter is that the writers just glossed over the issue of multiclassing entirely. "Gestalt players wanting more than two classes? Ho ho ho, what folly! Perchance if they're playing some of those underpowered clerics and druids they'd need some monk or paladin levels to help them catch up!"

    I'm inclined to try to stick to the basic rules for multiclassing as much as possible: "Add the base attack bonuses acquired for each class to get the character’s base attack bonus", and so on. I don't think the principle of "general rule (multiclass) vs. specific rule (gestalt)" really comes into play, because to me the gestalt rules really aren't specific enough to justify scrapping the basic principles behind the multiclassing rules.

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