What's the best (core only) party? [3.5]

[rockdeworld]

4 Druids?

I'm thinking of making a gish build for a high-level campaign, and I'd like to know what kind of party would complement it well. I'm thinking Cleric, Druid, Wizard.

Maybe a Cleric with leadership.

[Thurbane]

Most of the replies will be Druid/Druid/Druid/Druid, Wizard/Wizard/Wizard/Wizard or some combination of the two.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Wizard, Rogue, Cleric, Druid.

[drengnikrafe]

AMF? That'd be a bit funny...

[ravenkith]

I'd put money on Cleric/Wizard/Sorceror/Rogue

-OR-

Cleric/Cleric/Rogue/Wizard

being dominant.

[UglyPanda]

It's harder to get away with not having a rogue in core. Outside of core, you can easily get away with just setting off every trap ahead of time.

Probably Rogue/Druid/Cleric/Wizard.

[Tackyhillbillu]

Cleric/Druid/Wizard... something else.

[Innis Cabal]

AMF? That'd be a bit funny...

Funnier still when they use conjuration spells with SR: No to kick your butt.

[Emmerask]

depends on:
-the setting (low magic, high magic?)
-for what purpose (mostly fighting, or nearly none but lots of skill checks?)
-party level (4 level one core wizards are not that impressive if there is more then one encounter / day(especially if they don´t have the funds for some wands ^^)

I would go with
cleric, druid, rogue, wizard for most purposes

[drengnikrafe]

Funnier still when they use conjuration spells with SR: No to kick your butt.

I stand defeated.

[HamHam]

Druid/Cleric/Wizard/Arcane Trickster.

Does everything the Rogue would skill wise but also casts spells.

[tyckspoon]

It's pretty hard to get away with not having a trap-finder in core.

Probably Rogue/Druid/Cleric/Wizard.

Not really (an all-caster party has a *lot* of disposable minions, plus the resources to get around the effects of almost any trap they trigger), but it is handy. Saves a lot of resources that can go to more efficient and effective things for the casters (same thing for social skills- get a Rogue to diplomacy/bluff/gather information, and you save yourself a lot of charming and divining.) If the party makes sure to buy or craft enough Magic for him to Use, you might not even notice he's not another Wizard.

'course, he could be another Wizard anyway- Arcane Trickster is a core PrC. Or if you're only really concerned about Trapfinding multiclass one or two levels of Rogue and then keep up your Search/Disable Device at the cross-class cost.

[Lord of Syntax]

Druid/Rogue/Wizard/Barbarian

[Kallisti]

Druid/Cleric/Wizard/Bard. Let the Bard handle the social skills, the trap skills...let him handle the skills. That frees up your three casters to handle everything else, and the bard helps out conjured minions and gets some relatively decent casting of his own.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Druid/Cleric/Wizard/Bard. Let the Bard handle the social skills, the trap skills...let him handle the skills. That frees up your three casters to handle everything else, and the bard helps out conjured minions and gets some relatively decent casting of his own.

Bards do not get trapfinding.

[Moff Chumley]

They're BARDS. What else are you supposed to do with 'em? I mean, seeing as there's no henchman class in 3.5...

[Tackyhillbillu]

Bards do not get trapfinding.

They do however have the ability to encourage random Commoners to walk in front of the party...

[erikun]

Druid, Cleric, Wizard, Rogue 1/Bard X?

Actually, I'm not sure the cleric will be needed beyond the first few levels. Barbarian is also a nice choice if we're not optimizing very much.

[Defiant]

Druid/Druid/Wizard/Cleric

If you really want some other class as well, get the leadership feat.

[aje8]

Druid, Cleric, Wizard and I guess Rogue...... but perhaps a Rogue Gish build.

At levels starting from one and ending somewhere in the 4-7 range, then I like all druid party with a rogue better than this one, however after that the party with Wizard and Cleric better.

Though maybe even then you want Duid/Druid/Wizard/Rogue...... what key spells do clerics get in core...... not that many.

[Solean]

4 clerics. ( Just walk into every trap and heal up after. )

4 wizards are probably better tho.

Another note on traps - a corpse tied to a rope and thrown down a hallway and then dragged back will spring most traps. Making a summoned creature or slave or captured enemy walk down a hallway or open/break doors will get all but the strangest traps.

[Tyndmyr]

Druid, Cleric, Wizard, Wizard.

Social skills are for those who can't kill everything.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

Though maybe even then you want Duid/Druid/Wizard/Rogue...... what key spells do clerics get in core...... not that many.

Just Divine Power, Righteous Might, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, Deathward, Bestow Curse, Plane Shift, True Seeing, Freedom of Movement, Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon, Heal....

[Amphetryon]

Druid (summons focused), Druid (wildshape focused), Wizard (BFC), Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster (Mobility expert).

[Temet Nosce]

Druid/Cleric/Wizard/Arcane Trickster.

Does everything the Rogue would skill wise but also casts spells.

This pretty much. I might drop the Rogue anyways though, and just smack in another caster (probably a Wizard, with both specializing in different areas) and abuse summons to deal with traps.

[TheThan]

How about this:

Cleric: divine support, striker
Sorcerer: dps
Druid: tank, dps
Wizard: battlefield control
Bard: support

There you have all the bases covered.

[tyckspoon]

Though maybe even then you want Duid/Druid/Wizard/Rogue...... what key spells do clerics get in core...... not that many.

Miracle, True Res, Greater Restoration, Mass Heal, Slay Living, Commune, the Planar Ally line, the alignment Word group, Spell Immunity, Remove Blindness/Deafness, Divination, Speak With Dead, Magic Vestment, Silence, Find Traps, Bless, Bane, Doom, Shield of Faith. In an all full-casters group, those are some of the spells you will only get from a Cleric. Useful enough?

Edit: And not counting the spells that also appear on the Wizard or Druid lists.

[Eldariel]

Druid/Druid/Wizard/Wizard (with 1 level Rogue or Rogue/Assassin-dip going either Arcane Trickster or Loremaster depending on the size of the dip) with Wizards picking up Improved Familiars for a solid 8-person party. Though Clerics have quite a few buffs you kinda really like, like Magic Vestment, Heroes' Feast and company. So you could possibly replace one Druid with a Cleric; it's close.


So yeah, to be more specific:
1. Human/Dwarf/Gnome Druid 20
2. Human/Dwarf/Gnome Druid 20
3. Gray Elf/Gnome Wizard 7/Loremaster 8/Archmage 5
4. Gray Elf Rogue 1/Wizard 6/Loremaster 10/Archmage 3 OR Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Assassin 1/Arcane Trickster 10/LoremasterORArchmage 3 (latter loses extra level of casting for better class skills)

With possible Human/Dwarf Cleric thrown in. The Divine Casters do the tanking and...well, divine casting and the arcanists do the rest.


Regarding traps: If you can't disarm them, you're very limited in which ancient tombs and Kobold settlements you can invade. Triggering traps can be a horrible plan in some scenarios (Alarms/Callings/DestroyMcGuffins/CaveIns/etc.), and useless in others (Resetting/LongRange/Delayed/Doesn'tTriggerForCertainTypes/etc.).

As such, I'd strongly suggest not neglecting the character with Trapfinding and Rogue 1 is the only way to get that in Core (Find Traps doesn't bestow the caster with the ability to actually disable them). Also, Rogue abilities synergise great with a Wizard and Gray Elf-base so it all comes together really nicely in either of the builds, although the Loremaster build is far more limited as it has to brute force a large number of skills cross-class on his immense Int-modifier alone.

[aje8]

Divine Power, Righteous Might, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, Deathward, Bestow Curse, Plane Shift, True Seeing, Freedom of Movement, Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon, Heal....

Hum.... I guess I've been owned.

Ok, Druid/Cleric/Wizard/Rogue (Gish?) is definatley better.

[Moff Chumley]

Ninja'd, or did you just ignore PF?

EDIT: Well, the breadth of my ninja reveals the silliness of my comment.