[Any] Irony of Ironies!

[Deth Muncher]

So, I'm thinking about things that classically (in literature, films, etc) work, but in games due to rules do not.

My example: Vorpal Swords + Zombies. Everyone knows the best way to kill a zombie is to damage the brain or remove the head. However, irony of ironies, the Vorpal ability triggers on a critical, which zombies are immune to!

What can you think of?

[Yuki Akuma]

That's not irony.

[/pedant]

Also, vorpal weapons do not trigger on a critical hit - they trigger on a natural 20. You don't have to confirm, and they don't trigger on a 19 if you're using a longsword.

It will work on a zombie. It just won't kill it because zombies aren't living creatures and don't use their heads for anything. It will kill a vampire, though. Possibly a lich, too - it'll at least inconvenience a lich.

[Deth Muncher]

That's not irony.

[/pedant]

Also, vorpal weapons do not trigger on a critical hit - they trigger on a natural 20. You don't have to confirm, and they don't trigger on a 19 if you're using a longsword.

It will work on a zombie. It just won't kill it because zombies aren't living creatures and don't use their heads for anything. It will kill a vampire, though. Possibly a lich, too - it'll at least inconvenience a lich.

:/

It registered as irony to my sleep deprived brain.

D: *depression*

[Kurald Galain]

So, I'm thinking about things that classically (in literature, films, etc) work, but in games due to rules do not.

Which rules? It depends heavily on the system.

There used to be a column called Murphy's Rules about this. It had such gems as "in Starfleet Battles, fighter wings have a maximum speed but carriers do not" or "in Sid Meier's Civilization, a spearman can defeat a bomber plane."

But just a few classical scenes that don't really work in most roleplaying games,

Darth Vader cutting off Luke's hand.

Harry Potter being immune to Voldemort's death spell.

The duel between Marty and Griff in Back to the Future III.

[Dixieboy]

That's not irony.

[/pedant]

That really depends on what you view D&D as, not to mention context.

it'll at least inconvenience a lich.

No official rules say so, to my knowledge, makes sense though.

"in Sid Meier's Civilization, a spearman can defeat a bomber plane."[/quote]Just like a housecat can defeat a level 20 wizard.

Darth Vader cutting off Luke's hand.

I believe there are systems out there that makes cutting limbs off possible.

Harry Potter being immune to Voldemort's death spell.

good saves, DM fiat, a flat immunity to death effects, dm fiat, a botched roll on the part of voldemort, or just dm fiat.

The duel between Marty and Griff in Back to the Future III.

... elaborate, i don't see it.

[Yuki Akuma]

That really depends on what you view D&D as, not to mention context.

No official rules say so to my knowledge, makes sense though.

How do you say verbal components without a head?

[Kurald Galain]

Just like a housecat can defeat a level 20 wizard.

How?

I believe there are systems out there that makes cutting limbs off possible.

Yes, and your point is?


Mostly Armless (daily power)
Prerequisite: you must wield a lightsaber
Attack: wis vs. AC
Hit: 5[W] + wis + str modifier, and the target is weakened (save ends).

[Dixieboy]

How do you say verbal components without a head?

Same way you do those elaborate movements of the fingers while: on fire, drunk, underwater, badly wounded, and lacking motoric skills and arms.

How?

Vorpal claws.

The chances of a spearman beating a bomber plane are in fact ridonkosly miniscule if i remember correctly.
It just MIGHT happen.

Yes, and your point is?
.

That there are systems out there that make it work.

[kamikasei]

Just like a housecat can defeat a level 20 wizard.

I don't think I've ever heard this claim made for other than a first-level wizard...

[Yuki Akuma]

I don't think I've ever heard this claim made for other than a first-level wizard...

Nobody said it was a standard housecat.

[dsmiles]

Hey, a standard housecat can utterly destroy a standard kobold.

[BobVosh]

How?

Simple: Awaken it, give it 21 levels in wizard.

[sonofzeal]

In a large majority of the zombie games I've played, shotguns are actually a pretty poor tool for dealing with the walking dead.

[Kurald Galain]

That there are systems out there that make it work.

We're talking about things that don't work in some or most systems, not about things that work in no system.

[Dixieboy]

We're talking about things that don't work in some or most systems, not about things that work in no system.

I will counter with saying that I believe this works in MOST systems.

The ones that focus on combat anywho, and it might require a bit of GM interferrence, but in most cases that is required for anything suitably epic*.

* In my experience.

[RandomLunatic]

There used to be a column called Murphy's Rules about this. It had such gems as "in Starfleet Battles, fighter wings have a maximum speed but carriers do not"

Nitpick: This is a case of failure to do the research. Carriers (and every other ship in the game) also have a speed cap: 31 or (Move_Cost x Available_Warp_Engine_Power + 1), whichever is less.

[mikeejimbo]

There used to be a column called Murphy's Rules about this. It had such gems as "in Starfleet Battles, fighter wings have a maximum speed but carriers do not" or "in Sid Meier's Civilization, a spearman can defeat a bomber plane."

Murphy's Rules is currently a feature in Steve Jackson Games' newest version of Pyramid magazine.

[Tyndmyr]

In a large majority of the zombie games I've played, shotguns are actually a pretty poor tool for dealing with the walking dead.

I suspect they would be in real life, too. Poor range, heavy ammo, limited capacity. Shotguns are used for duck hunting, not as a battle rifle.

[ken-do-nim]

So, I'm thinking about things that classically (in literature, films, etc) work, but in games due to rules do not.

My example: Vorpal Swords + Zombies. Everyone knows the best way to kill a zombie is to damage the brain or remove the head. However, irony of ironies, the Vorpal ability triggers on a critical, which zombies are immune to!

What can you think of?

Well I guess the best example is Bard killing Smaug in the Hobbit. Unless it was an arrow of slaying, one arrow would not kill an unwounded dragon, unless you are using some really nasty critical hit system.

[Random832]

Shotguns are just part of the 'zombie mythos' - Originates from Evil Dead, AFAIK.

They're also particularly effective against some kinds of Flood [which share some aspects of zombies] in Halo.

Well I guess the best example is Bard killing Smaug in the Hobbit. Unless it was an arrow of slaying, one arrow would not kill an unwounded dragon, unless you are using some really nasty critical hit system.

In D&D, sure. (though with a lot of people's critical houserules, if you roll enough 20s in a row...) But suppose it did enough damage to force a shock save [lots of systems have those, mainly ones intended to be more 'realistic'], and the Dragon (not having a high save, since all that natural armor is supposed to mean it doesn't need it... or maybe even rolling a 1) fails it

[horseboy]

The chances of a spearman beating a bomber plane are in fact ridiculously minuscule if i remember correctly.

I've had that happen a couple times in that last one. Luckily it was my spear man.

That there are systems out there that make it work.

Rolemaster, Harn, Earthdawn with optional limb damage rules in play.

Well I guess the best example is Bard killing Smaug in the Hobbit. Unless it was an arrow of slaying, one arrow would not kill an unwounded dragon, unless you are using some really nasty critical hit system.

Even with a really nasty crit hit system, if I remember my Treasures of Middle Earth right, Black Arrow was eog (+30) enchanted to around +50-+60 and I think was holy. Then it took Bard rolling a 250 on his crit (On a 1d100.open96). I've seen it happen once in like 6 or 7 years of playing that system.

[chiasaur11]

I don't think I've ever heard this claim made for other than a first-level wizard...

You must have missed the snuggles the death kitty thread.

[Grumman]

I suspect they would be in real life, too. Poor range, heavy ammo, limited capacity. Shotguns are used for duck hunting, not as a battle rifle.

You're obviously not using a big enough shotgun. Howitzer + beehive rounds = 105mm shotgun.

[tyckspoon]

How?

Same way it happens in Civilization: the Wizard only makes standard attack rolls and rolls 1s, and the cat rolls 20s. If you abstract out everything the Wizard/Bomber can do to a single combat value stat and then roll against that, the cat/spearman has a chance as long as there is a chance for an absolute success and absolute failure. Civ does that, D&D usually doesn't, which makes cat vs. level 20 anything sound pretty weird.

[Dogmantra]

Mostly Armless (daily power)
Prerequisite: you must wield a lightsaber
Attack: wis vs. AC
Hit: 5[W] + wis + str modifier, and the target is weakened (save ends).

I don't know what's more wrong: that I actually want to take this power to use in a serious game, purely because of the Douglas Adams reference, or that I decided against it because I don't have enough wisdom to hit reliably...

[kjones]

Mostly Armless (daily power)
Prerequisite: you must wield a lightsaber
Attack: wis vs. AC
Hit: 5[W] + wis + str modifier, and the target is weakened (save ends).

This is both a terrible pun and a subtle critique of the 4e power system. I like it.

[erikun]

Any character with enough HP can fall an infinite amount of space and walk away without problem. Any character with 120+ HP will never die from falling damage while at full health. (Anyone with that many HP should be able to make a DC 15 fortitude save without problem.)

Give them some sort of fire resistance, and they can survive re-entry.

A coup de grace only deals full damage + critical modifier, meaning someone with 20 STR wielding a greataxe can only 57 damage a hit, reguardless of how much you pay them. Even with 20 levels or rogue, they're still dealing 117 damage, leaving our 120+ HP character alive on the chopping block.

The less clothes you wear, the harder you are to see.

[Draz74]

Btw Dogmantra, nice sig idea!

Well I guess the best example is Bard killing Smaug in the Hobbit. Unless it was an arrow of slaying, one arrow would not kill an unwounded dragon, unless you are using some really nasty critical hit system.

And even if it was an Arrow of Slaying, the dragon would probably make its Fort save ...

[tyckspoon]

A coup de grace only deals full damage + critical modifier, meaning someone with 20 STR wielding a greataxe can only 57 damage a hit, reguardless of how much you pay them. Even with 20 levels or rogue, they're still dealing 117 damage, leaving our 120+ HP character alive on the chopping block.

The less clothes you wear, the harder you are to see.

Except for the DC 67 Fort save to not die. Most things cannot make that except on an auto-pass, and if that happens.. well, historically some executions took more than one swing too (and they might balance it by auto-failing the DC 15 mass damage roll.)

I hope the clothing thing was meant as a joke- normal clothing does not cause any armor check penalty.

[erikun]

Except for the DC 67 Fort save to not die. Most things cannot make that except on an auto-pass, and if that happens.. well, historically some executions took more than one swing too (and they might balance it by auto-failing the DC 15 mass damage roll.)

I hope the clothing thing was meant as a joke- normal clothing does not cause any armor check penalty.

While I agree that makes more sense (relatively speaking), the rules for massive damage only use a DC 15 fortitude save.

Any yes, the clothing thing is a bit of a joke.