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    Deth Muncher's Avatar

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    Default [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    So, I'm thinking about things that classically (in literature, films, etc) work, but in games due to rules do not.

    My example: Vorpal Swords + Zombies. Everyone knows the best way to kill a zombie is to damage the brain or remove the head. However, irony of ironies, the Vorpal ability triggers on a critical, which zombies are immune to!

    What can you think of?
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    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    That's not irony.

    [/pedant]

    Also, vorpal weapons do not trigger on a critical hit - they trigger on a natural 20. You don't have to confirm, and they don't trigger on a 19 if you're using a longsword.

    It will work on a zombie. It just won't kill it because zombies aren't living creatures and don't use their heads for anything. It will kill a vampire, though. Possibly a lich, too - it'll at least inconvenience a lich.
    Last edited by Yuki Akuma; 2009-11-19 at 04:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Deth Muncher's Avatar

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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    That's not irony.

    [/pedant]

    Also, vorpal weapons do not trigger on a critical hit - they trigger on a natural 20. You don't have to confirm, and they don't trigger on a 19 if you're using a longsword.

    It will work on a zombie. It just won't kill it because zombies aren't living creatures and don't use their heads for anything. It will kill a vampire, though. Possibly a lich, too - it'll at least inconvenience a lich.
    :/

    It registered as irony to my sleep deprived brain.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    ..thank you, Deth Muncher. My life is richer for being aware of this. And weirder. ("You destroyed my friends! I will have my vengeance! Face the fury of my pelvic thrusts!" "Oh yeah? LAZOR!")
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    You all are a terrible species. I'm going back to my fortress of misanthropy now.

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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deth Muncher View Post
    So, I'm thinking about things that classically (in literature, films, etc) work, but in games due to rules do not.
    Which rules? It depends heavily on the system.

    There used to be a column called Murphy's Rules about this. It had such gems as "in Starfleet Battles, fighter wings have a maximum speed but carriers do not" or "in Sid Meier's Civilization, a spearman can defeat a bomber plane."

    But just a few classical scenes that don't really work in most roleplaying games,

    Darth Vader cutting off Luke's hand.

    Harry Potter being immune to Voldemort's death spell.

    The duel between Marty and Griff in Back to the Future III.
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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    That's not irony.

    [/pedant]
    That really depends on what you view D&D as, not to mention context.

    it'll at least inconvenience a lich.
    No official rules say so, to my knowledge, makes sense though.

    "in Sid Meier's Civilization, a spearman can defeat a bomber plane."[/quote]Just like a housecat can defeat a level 20 wizard.


    Darth Vader cutting off Luke's hand.
    I believe there are systems out there that makes cutting limbs off possible.

    Harry Potter being immune to Voldemort's death spell.
    good saves, DM fiat, a flat immunity to death effects, dm fiat, a botched roll on the part of voldemort, or just dm fiat.
    The duel between Marty and Griff in Back to the Future III.
    ... elaborate, i don't see it.
    Last edited by Dixieboy; 2009-11-19 at 05:15 AM.

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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dixieboy View Post
    That really depends on what you view D&D as, not to mention context.

    No official rules say so to my knowledge, makes sense though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dixieboy View Post
    Just like a housecat can defeat a level 20 wizard.
    How?

    I believe there are systems out there that makes cutting limbs off possible.
    Yes, and your point is?


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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki_Akuma View Post
    How do you say verbal components without a head?
    Same way you do those elaborate movements of the fingers while: on fire, drunk, underwater, badly wounded, and lacking motoric skills and arms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    How?
    Vorpal claws.

    The chances of a spearman beating a bomber plane are in fact ridonkosly miniscule if i remember correctly.
    It just MIGHT happen.
    Yes, and your point is?
    .
    That there are systems out there that make it work.
    Last edited by Dixieboy; 2009-11-19 at 05:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixieboy View Post
    Just like a housecat can defeat a level 20 wizard.
    I don't think I've ever heard this claim made for other than a first-level wizard...

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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikasei View Post
    I don't think I've ever heard this claim made for other than a first-level wizard...
    Nobody said it was a standard housecat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Hey, a standard housecat can utterly destroy a standard kobold.
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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    How?
    Simple: Awaken it, give it 21 levels in wizard.
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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    In a large majority of the zombie games I've played, shotguns are actually a pretty poor tool for dealing with the walking dead.
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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dixieboy View Post
    That there are systems out there that make it work.
    We're talking about things that don't work in some or most systems, not about things that work in no system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    We're talking about things that don't work in some or most systems, not about things that work in no system.
    I will counter with saying that I believe this works in MOST systems.

    The ones that focus on combat anywho, and it might require a bit of GM interferrence, but in most cases that is required for anything suitably epic*.

    * In my experience.
    Last edited by Dixieboy; 2009-11-19 at 06:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    There used to be a column called Murphy's Rules about this. It had such gems as "in Starfleet Battles, fighter wings have a maximum speed but carriers do not"
    Nitpick: This is a case of failure to do the research. Carriers (and every other ship in the game) also have a speed cap: 31 or (Move_Cost x Available_Warp_Engine_Power + 1), whichever is less.
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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    There used to be a column called Murphy's Rules about this. It had such gems as "in Starfleet Battles, fighter wings have a maximum speed but carriers do not" or "in Sid Meier's Civilization, a spearman can defeat a bomber plane."
    Murphy's Rules is currently a feature in Steve Jackson Games' newest version of Pyramid magazine.
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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by sonofzeal View Post
    In a large majority of the zombie games I've played, shotguns are actually a pretty poor tool for dealing with the walking dead.
    I suspect they would be in real life, too. Poor range, heavy ammo, limited capacity. Shotguns are used for duck hunting, not as a battle rifle.

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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Deth Muncher View Post
    So, I'm thinking about things that classically (in literature, films, etc) work, but in games due to rules do not.

    My example: Vorpal Swords + Zombies. Everyone knows the best way to kill a zombie is to damage the brain or remove the head. However, irony of ironies, the Vorpal ability triggers on a critical, which zombies are immune to!

    What can you think of?
    Well I guess the best example is Bard killing Smaug in the Hobbit. Unless it was an arrow of slaying, one arrow would not kill an unwounded dragon, unless you are using some really nasty critical hit system.

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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Shotguns are just part of the 'zombie mythos' - Originates from Evil Dead, AFAIK.

    They're also particularly effective against some kinds of Flood [which share some aspects of zombies] in Halo.

    Quote Originally Posted by ken-do-nim View Post
    Well I guess the best example is Bard killing Smaug in the Hobbit. Unless it was an arrow of slaying, one arrow would not kill an unwounded dragon, unless you are using some really nasty critical hit system.
    In D&D, sure. (though with a lot of people's critical houserules, if you roll enough 20s in a row...) But suppose it did enough damage to force a shock save [lots of systems have those, mainly ones intended to be more 'realistic'], and the Dragon (not having a high save, since all that natural armor is supposed to mean it doesn't need it... or maybe even rolling a 1) fails it
    Last edited by Random832; 2009-11-19 at 12:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixieboy View Post
    The chances of a spearman beating a bomber plane are in fact ridiculously minuscule if i remember correctly.
    I've had that happen a couple times in that last one. Luckily it was my spear man.
    That there are systems out there that make it work.
    Rolemaster, Harn, Earthdawn with optional limb damage rules in play.
    Quote Originally Posted by ken-do-nim View Post
    Well I guess the best example is Bard killing Smaug in the Hobbit. Unless it was an arrow of slaying, one arrow would not kill an unwounded dragon, unless you are using some really nasty critical hit system.
    Even with a really nasty crit hit system, if I remember my Treasures of Middle Earth right, Black Arrow was eog (+30) enchanted to around +50-+60 and I think was holy. Then it took Bard rolling a 250 on his crit (On a 1d100.open96). I've seen it happen once in like 6 or 7 years of playing that system.
    Last edited by horseboy; 2009-11-19 at 01:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kamikasei View Post
    I don't think I've ever heard this claim made for other than a first-level wizard...
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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    I suspect they would be in real life, too. Poor range, heavy ammo, limited capacity. Shotguns are used for duck hunting, not as a battle rifle.
    You're obviously not using a big enough shotgun. Howitzer + beehive rounds = 105mm shotgun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    How?
    Same way it happens in Civilization: the Wizard only makes standard attack rolls and rolls 1s, and the cat rolls 20s. If you abstract out everything the Wizard/Bomber can do to a single combat value stat and then roll against that, the cat/spearman has a chance as long as there is a chance for an absolute success and absolute failure. Civ does that, D&D usually doesn't, which makes cat vs. level 20 anything sound pretty weird.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Mostly Armless (daily power)
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    Attack: wis vs. AC
    Hit: 5[W] + wis + str modifier, and the target is weakened (save ends).
    I don't know what's more wrong: that I actually want to take this power to use in a serious game, purely because of the Douglas Adams reference, or that I decided against it because I don't have enough wisdom to hit reliably...
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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Mostly Armless (daily power)
    Prerequisite: you must wield a lightsaber
    Attack: wis vs. AC
    Hit: 5[W] + wis + str modifier, and the target is weakened (save ends).
    This is both a terrible pun and a subtle critique of the 4e power system. I like it.
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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Any character with enough HP can fall an infinite amount of space and walk away without problem. Any character with 120+ HP will never die from falling damage while at full health. (Anyone with that many HP should be able to make a DC 15 fortitude save without problem.)

    Give them some sort of fire resistance, and they can survive re-entry.

    A coup de grace only deals full damage + critical modifier, meaning someone with 20 STR wielding a greataxe can only 57 damage a hit, reguardless of how much you pay them. Even with 20 levels or rogue, they're still dealing 117 damage, leaving our 120+ HP character alive on the chopping block.

    The less clothes you wear, the harder you are to see.

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    Btw Dogmantra, nice sig idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by ken-do-nim View Post
    Well I guess the best example is Bard killing Smaug in the Hobbit. Unless it was an arrow of slaying, one arrow would not kill an unwounded dragon, unless you are using some really nasty critical hit system.
    And even if it was an Arrow of Slaying, the dragon would probably make its Fort save ...
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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    A coup de grace only deals full damage + critical modifier, meaning someone with 20 STR wielding a greataxe can only 57 damage a hit, reguardless of how much you pay them. Even with 20 levels or rogue, they're still dealing 117 damage, leaving our 120+ HP character alive on the chopping block.

    The less clothes you wear, the harder you are to see.
    Except for the DC 67 Fort save to not die. Most things cannot make that except on an auto-pass, and if that happens.. well, historically some executions took more than one swing too (and they might balance it by auto-failing the DC 15 mass damage roll.)

    I hope the clothing thing was meant as a joke- normal clothing does not cause any armor check penalty.

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    Default Re: [Any] Irony of Ironies!

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    Except for the DC 67 Fort save to not die. Most things cannot make that except on an auto-pass, and if that happens.. well, historically some executions took more than one swing too (and they might balance it by auto-failing the DC 15 mass damage roll.)

    I hope the clothing thing was meant as a joke- normal clothing does not cause any armor check penalty.
    While I agree that makes more sense (relatively speaking), the rules for massive damage only use a DC 15 fortitude save.

    Any yes, the clothing thing is a bit of a joke.

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