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Thread: Imp sorcerer, pf.
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2009-11-19, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Imp sorcerer, pf.
So, I was thinking about joining this Pathfinder game. With monsters. Meaning, we are monsters with class levels.
A player of the group made an attempt to explain me the rules for advancing monster by class levels 'cause I'm new to pathfinder. Then, just to see if I could figure it out myself, I checked the book itself.
Now, however, I am confused. The explanation given to me by the players seems incoherent with what the book says.
My question is then; if the group starts at ECL 6, how many levels of Sorcerer would an imp, following the pathfinder rules, have?
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2009-11-19, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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Re: Imp sorcerer, pf.
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Me: The kind that armies have been using for millennia.
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Player: Where are the babau in relation to everyone else?
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My Homebrew
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2009-11-19, 12:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
Re: Imp sorcerer, pf.
Following PF rules, as I understand them, you look at the CR of the imp. That is the ECL of an imp with no class levels. 2, I believe.
So, at ECL 6, you'd be an imp 2/Sorc 4.
Now, whether you lose your racial hit dice or keep them, I don't know. My group has houseruled a lot of monster characters and we tend to drop them, but I don't know if this is the actual rule as I don't have the book with me currently.
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2009-11-19, 12:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Imp sorcerer, pf.
I said Pathfinder, not 3.5e.
Pathfinder have a system for playing monsters, which makes a lot more sense than some of the ridiculous LA adjustments some races have. Or, I thought so.
Now I don't know, because I'm no longer sure how it works.
Edit: I don't think its that simple. There's all that stuff about gaining half a level per 3, but always being a couple of levels behind and yadidadida.Last edited by Edwin; 2009-11-19 at 12:10 PM.
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2009-11-19, 12:09 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
Re: Imp sorcerer, pf.
From the PRD:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/m...tersAsPCs.html
Originally Posted by Official Pathfinder Reference Document
So, as I read that, your imp would have X sorc levels, where X = 6 - (CR of Imp). It would get its racial HD and additional HD for each Sorc level.Last edited by cbs2186; 2009-11-19 at 12:15 PM.
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2009-11-19, 12:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Imp sorcerer, pf.
You use the creature's Challenge Rating (CR) as its total "monster levels" - and take the rest as Sorcerer levels.
Imps are CR 2, so you'd be Imp 2 / Sorcerer 4.
Halfway between party levels 8 and 9, take an extra level in Sorcerer, to compensate for your monster levels becoming less useful.
For the record, your ability score adjustments would be +6 Dex, +2 Int, +2 Wis, +4 Cha.
Level Adjustment doesn't exist in Pathfinder.Last edited by Rixx; 2009-11-19 at 12:12 PM.
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2009-11-19, 12:11 PM (ISO 8601)
Re: Imp sorcerer, pf.
In standard 3.5, looking at the Imp's special abilities, especially the at-will SLAs, I'd be hard pressed to give it any less than an LA +3.
That'd leave it with 3 RHD and a +3 LA, for no sorcerer levels. I don't know what the Pathfinder rules for monster characters are, however. My own fixes for LA/RHD (which is a work in progress, and intertwined with a lot of other changes) would allow the character to cast as a 2nd level sorcerer at ECL 6.
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2009-11-19, 12:13 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-11-19, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
Re: Imp sorcerer, pf.
Rixx explained it as written in the Chunk of text I posted, which was copied directly from the Paizo site. So yup, it's that simple.
Balanced? Maybe... Simple conversion? yeah.
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2009-11-19, 12:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Imp sorcerer, pf.
Well, it is that simple. He was probably trying to explain when you start to get extra levels to "replace" half your monster levels - and since Imps are CR 2, this only happens once, between 8th and 9th level.
Last edited by Rixx; 2009-11-19 at 12:17 PM.
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2009-11-19, 12:16 PM (ISO 8601)
Re: Imp sorcerer, pf.
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2009-11-19, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-11-19, 12:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Imp sorcerer, pf.
The Paizo staff have said that the monsters were not designed to be played, but to be fought. That's why that passage warns about letting PCs play as monsters - it's subject to GM approval, since some monsters have abilities that are way more useful in the hands of players than NPCs (The Hound Archon's Greater Teleport at will, for example).
They did say that if there's enough demand, they'd release a "Savage Species" type book based around a more balanced system for playing as monsters.Last edited by Rixx; 2009-11-19 at 12:20 PM.
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2009-11-19, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-11-19, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-11-19, 12:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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2009-11-19, 12:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Imp sorcerer, pf.
In any case, the rules serve the GM, not the other way around. Any GM who's willing to let you play as a dragon in a mixed party should be prepared to deal with balance issues.
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2009-11-19, 12:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2009
Re: Imp sorcerer, pf.
Yes, you could play a classless wyrmling white dragon at ECL2, getting 3d12 HD, a 2d4 cold damage breath, 60ft speed, 30 burrow, 60 swim, a bite doing 1d4, 2 claws doing 1d3 each, 100ft fly, Icewalking, and a cold subtype.
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2009-11-19, 12:51 PM (ISO 8601)
Re: Imp sorcerer, pf.
True. On the other hand, the rules should simply state that there is no provision for playing "monster PCs" instead of offering a laughable "system" along with dire admonitions.
Either the rules allow for it, or they don't. If they allow for it, specify it. If they don't, then don't provide "guidelines" that clearly don't work well.
As "penalizing" as stock 3.5 is for high-ECL races, at least there is a relatively consistent mechanism.
Of course, the +2 CON, -4 INT, -4 CHA does tend to restrict one to the more martial classes. (In 3.5., I'd be thinking Swordsage...) Although Druid or Cleric isn't out of the question, either.Last edited by Duke of URL; 2009-11-19 at 12:54 PM.
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2009-11-19, 02:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Imp sorcerer, pf.
The key with a Dragon like that is Rogue. Multiple natural attacks and small size make martial useless, but SA is golden.
[/sarcasm]
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