First-time player w/ Factotum multiclassing questions

[Calvinball]

So yeah, I'm playing DnD for the first time, and am playing what is currently a level 6 human factotum. Here's what my stats look like

Str 13
Dex 13
Con 12
Int 18
Wis 9
Cha 12

Yeah I had mediocre rolls...

Feats
Armor Proficiency (medium)
Font of Inspiration (taken twice)
Knowledge Devotion

My DM is allowing us to rework feats each time we level up if we so choose, as we are all beginners who are experimenting with the game. So if I multiclass something that can't use medium armor or already has capability to use it I can use that feat slot for something else.

So I've been doing a lot of research on good multiclass/prestige class combos for the factotum and have found a lot of information. This thread in particular has given me a lot to think about: http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...ok?num=10&pg=1

The thing is, my character isn't perfect, and neither is the situation. I'd be happy to become a chameleon after 8 levels in factotum, but that doesn't seem feasible, really. To be a chameleon your character needs formal training at some school, but there's no way that my character will have the ability to go there until the story arch is over. And by then, I will be several levels over the ideal.

Beyond that, a lot of this information I'm seeing is like...level 20 ideal builds that i won't ever attain. I want something that my stats will accommodate and that will be fun and effective along the way. I am in a pretty large party, with six other people. So it'd be cool to do something that no one else can. Factotum is fun cause I can do a bit of everything, and if there is a class out there that compliments it well and does something the standard base classes don't...well I'd like to know about it

So can all you DnD experts help a newbie out? What are some good approaches for my factotum? I'm open to almost anything, and any help is much appreciated!

[infinitypanda]

I vote for just staying Factotum, really. It's a fun class. Just two things:

1. Inspiration points are per encounter, not per day. A lot of people miss that.
2. There is no second thing.

[Doc Roc]

I would take factotum to 8, personally, particularly given that FoI is allowed.
From there, your options are pretty much unlimited, but because I am a mad man, I personally like

Factotum 8/Iaijatsu Master 5

[infinitypanda]

Doesn't that build need lots of Charisma? Although the only difference between 18 and 12 is a +3.

[deuxhero]

Wait so you can retrain/change feats at each level up?

Change your armor proficeny to something else (any ideas? it's a pretty weak feat for an semi-agile class) and grab a mithiral breastplate.

If you must PRC out, Cameleon (forget book, but free as a preview of it, someone has the link) after level 8 is a bit of fun (though straight class is also good).

[Calvinball]

I vote for just staying Factotum, really. It's a fun class. Just two things:

1. Inspiration points are per encounter, not per day. A lot of people miss that.
2. There is no second thing.

Oh, I know Inspiration points are per encounter. And I've definitely been taking advantage of them. I'm just conerned of growing a bit underpowered compaired to my teammates. Like I said, it's a big party, there's a wizard, a druid, a cleric, a barbarian, a monk and a rogue. So it's not like there's any basic thing that they can't do without me, and if they can all do their respective stuff better than me I feel I won't be all that useful.

And as for Factotum 8/Iajutsu Master 5, I've considered that route. But like I said, I'm a newbie so I don't know too much about the game. What can these combos do?

Right now, my character is pretty open, and I don't have much preference whether my character becomes martially-minded or skill-minded or magic-minded or what have you. I just want to have fun playing

Oh, and I feel I should expand on Knowledge Devotion a bit. I've invested a good bit into making it useful, I've got at least a 5 modifier in every knowledge () on the standard character sheet, and over ten in nature, arcana, and dungeoneering. So any classes that use attack rolls fairly commonly so I can take advantage of Knowledge Devotion are a big plus.

[aje8]

Straight Factotum is great. If you must leave it, I like either Chameleon or perhaps a Warblade dip.

Armor Profeicency is a trap. Between Mithral Armor and the Twighlight enchancment, even Wizards can have good armor if they're willing to pay.

So.... yeah, swap about Armor poficency for probably another Font.

[Calvinball]

Wait so you can retrain/change feats at each level up?

Change your armor proficeny to something else (any ideas? it's a pretty weak feat for an semi-agile class) and grab a mithiral breastplate.

If you must PRC out, Cameleon (forget book, but free as a preview of it, someone has the link) after level 8 is a bit of fun (though straight class is also good).

I thought mythril breastplates were still medium armor? I actually have one equipped right now so if they aren't...yeah I'll drop that feat as soon as I can.

And I already touched on the chameleon problem. Story-wise, I'm stuck fighting off an army of hob-goblins. The DM says by the time I could get away for formal training to become a chameleon, I'd be level 11 or 12. So it kinda messes that up

but yeah, I basically have a free feat available cause I don't plan to stick with armor proficiency regardless, so if I need a certain feat to become a certain class I have the capability.

[Calvinball]

oh and I have the chameleon character already pulled up so no need to link me to it.

[aje8]

I'd seriously just go with Straight Factotum..... it's really a fine class throughout. Just make all your future feats, including the armor one, FoI and go to town.

[Eldariel]

Formal training is merely a fluff requirement, definitely not the only way to go about it. Factotum is really a Chameleon-like base class so just advancing Factotum should really qualify you for Chameleon. Your DM is well within his rights to say that all PrCs require training, of course, but Chameleon isn't really written as to need such (Chameleons aren't an organization or anything; they'd actually make a fine base class) and really, the reasons for such a rule practically always constitute an application of Stormwind Fallacy anyways (basically, the Fallacy is assuming that the character's classes determine what the character is in the gameworld; just because you're a Cleric doesn't mean you're a part of an organized clergy, for example - all it means is that you have some divinely granted powers).

And yeah, without Chameleon, I'd just go Factotum 20. It's a fine class. It's not worse than Factotum 11/Chameleon 9, either.

[KitTheOdd]

With a large group like that you may want to consider dipping into Bard. With the feat Song of the Heart from ECS and the Badge of Valor from MIC you can give everybody +3 to attack and +3 damage. Of course, you would also want the feat Extra Music if you only take one level.

Or you could get a little cheesy and go for a Dragonfire Inspiration Bard.

See
http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...Bards_Handbook

and

http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...e_Optimization

Or look at some of the other classes that do well at helping the whole group, like Marshal.

The trick here is to make sure your party appreciates the help.

But seriously sticking with Factotum is perfectly viable. You might also want to talk to the DM about removing the fluff requirement on Chameleon. It does fit well as a natural extension of the Factotum's inspiration mechanic.

ninja'd on the reflavoring thing

[SurlySeraph]

It's perfectly reasonable to stay with pure Factotum, and in the absence of any other information it's what I recommend. If you really want to multiclass, Warblade (Tome of Battle) is a good choice. You might retrain your armor proficiency to Martial Study and use it to get the prerequisite for any maneuver you might want.

[Calvinball]

I took a closer look at warblade and while it's a cool class it definitely wouldn't work with my build. Like I said, I've got my skills basically built around the Knowledge Devotion feat, which provides insight bonuses to attack and damage rolls. A lot of the class abilities of warblade are about adding int to attack and damage rolls in certain situations, and they wouldn't stack. So warblade isn't a decent option I don't think.

I spoke to the DM and he didn't seem too receptive to the idea of ignoring the chameleon fluff. He did recommend Warlock as a multiclass so I will check that out. Otherwise I might just stay straight Factotum.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

I took a closer look at warblade and while it's a cool class it definitely wouldn't work with my build. Like I said, I've got my skills basically built around the Knowledge Devotion feat, which provides insight bonuses to attack and damage rolls. A lot of the class abilities of warblade are about adding int to attack and damage rolls in certain situations, and they wouldn't stack. So warblade isn't a decent option I don't think.

Why wouldn't they? Different bonuses from different sources.

I spoke to the DM and he didn't seem too receptive to the idea of ignoring the chameleon fluff. He did recommend Warlock as a multiclass so I will check that out. Otherwise I might just stay straight Factotum.

You will be disappointed.

[Eldariel]

Warlock has the issue that all the principal class features are only really good if you single-class it. Other than free access to few Least Invocations and the incredible, incredible level 4 ability to take 10 on UMD, it really offers little as a dip.

Nay, if Chameleon doesn't work (No refluffing? What is this, Sparta?), I just suggest a straight Factotum and making the best out of the spellcasting, skills and copycat abilities you gain.


Oh yeah, and your rolls are fine. Just btw.

[Calvinball]

yeah i'm not very impressed with warlock. not for multiclassing anyways.

But don't bonuses of the same type not stack? All the warblade bonuses are insight bonuses, and Knowledge Devotion bonuses are insight bonuses. If they DO stack somehow, I will probably go with warblade.

[Eldariel]

yeah i'm not very impressed with warlock. not for multiclassing anyways.

But don't bonuses of the same type not stack? All the warblade bonuses are insight bonuses, and Knowledge Devotion bonuses are insight bonuses. If they DO stack somehow, I will probably go with warblade.

Warblade isn't getting much Insight-bonuses to hit and damage. Those are the only bonuses Knowledge Devotion grants. No problems there. You'll only miss out on Battle Cunning and Battle Mastery (something you'd probably never reach anyways, since you're multiclassed). Besides, the real reason to go Warblade are maneuvers (and the fact that maneuver progression isn't stymied by taking levels in non-maneuver classes). Maneuvers + Cunning Surge =

[Calvinball]

Do crit confirmations not count as attack rolls then?

But yeah, I'll need to study the warblade a bit more and how stances work and all that but I am liking it more and more.

[Thurbane]

Maybe a dip into Archivist, so you can share your Dark Knowledge with the party.

[Eldariel]

Do crit confirmations not count as attack rolls then?

That's gray area. I would allow them to stack simply because knowledge of how best to attack a creature gaining advantages against its fighting style, and of how best to realize a potential hit in fatal place aren't the same thing.

Or well, it's an attack roll, that much is clear. But while RAW states they don't stack, you could make a rather strong RAI case for them stacking there since they're applied to different things, sorta.

[Calvinball]

Alright, thanks for the help. My DM seems to be a bit of a stickler to the rules but he does say he will accept whatever so long as a strong case is made for it. So he might go for it.

This warblade stuff is confusing though. It's hard to wrap my head all around it. He's played a swordsage before so he could help me understand manouvers and stances and all that.

and thurbane, what does an archivist do? I'm not familiar with the class.

[Pharaoh's Fist]

The Archivist

[Calvinball]

ok, warblade looks like it'd be a really, really fun addition to my factotum abilities. Especially considering that the maneuvers and stances I can pick from the outset are aided by the 8 levels I will already have from factotum. I will be able to start with third level stances and maneuvers, though if I read it correctly I will still start with only one stance and three maneuvers.

Still seems like it will really provide an extra punch to my factotum. I especially like how there is also a bit of party-boosting abilities I can think about with the White Raven school. It should work out pretty well.

The archivist also seems like it would be pretty cool as it would bolster my party-boosting abilities. I think I will stick with warblade, though.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

[Doc Roc]

Warlock is a trashfish. I love it, but it's a trashfish. You don't cook it for dinner unless you have nothing else.

Iaijatsu master capitalizes on your bizarrely high initiative, since initiative is an ability check of the flavor that you'll be adding your intelligence modifier to. So what Iai master does, is take the already amazing iaijatsu skill, and at level five, give you the impeccably cool ability to add your cha mod to each damage die you gain from iaijatsu.

That said, you're not in a good position to move into Iaijatsu master. Chameleon is my other normal go to in this situation, but that's a problem here. I'll think on it. Maybe I'll come up with something. Warblade is simply superb. I would go:

Factotum 8/Warblade 2/_______________

[Calvinball]

Wait, I have bizarrely high initiative? Last I checked my initiative bonus was...+1. Or did I not calculate it right or something...

[Alex112524]

An initiative check is a dexterity check

[Doc Roc]

so you have a +5 at least. :)

[Ormagoden]

Duskblade has really good synergy with both factotum and knowledge devotion.

[Calvinball]

so you have a +5 at least. :)

oh wow, brain over brawn qualifies for initiative checks? I had no idea, I'll have to take that into account. Thanks.

And I'll check out Duskblade, thanks for the recommendation.