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    Default My fighter "fix" (not just bigger numbers!)

    Ok, so there's like a bazilion fighter "fixes" out there, but most of them seem to just give bigger numbers

    So I decided to try to stop the madness and make a fix of my own. Altough it may not be the ultimate "fix", I hope it will at least provide some ideas on extra abilities that may actualy be usefull against optimized casters, from my personal experience.

    And of what will this fighter fix consist? FEATS of course!


    The following feats may be taken only as fighter bonus feats received from the fighter class.Warblades, go play with your disguised SLAs somewhere else! You don't qualify for the following feats, ever(unless you multiclass fighter)!

    Notes on my design process:
    1-The fighter must no have rechargeable abilities except for the number of aoos per turn.
    2-The fighter likes toys more than anyone else.
    3-The fighter isn't about breaking reality. It's about stoping others from breaking reality.



    Deflection chain:

    Spoiler
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    Deflection: (recquires fighter 4th level)
    As an imediate action, you may roll a reflex save with DC 20 in order to deflect any ranged attack at you. If you have a magical weapon or shield, you can even deflect rays, orbs, SLA, su, spells and anything else wich specificaly target you, but the DC becomes 20+corresponding spell level.

    Improved deflection:
    (recquires deflection)
    You may now expend an aoos instead of an imediate action to use your deflection ability. You also gain a +4 bonus on this reflex save.


    Guardian:
    (recquires Deflection)
    You can use your deflection ability to protect anyone whitin your reach.

    Mirror move:
    (recquires deflection and improved deflection)
    Whenever you sucessfully make a deflection save, you can choose to turn the effect against anyone in your line of sight, as if you were using it yourself. If it demanded an attack roll, roll again using your own statistics, but the effect's DC and level remain the same.


    Rope combat chain:

    Spoiler
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    Basic combat rope training: (recquires fighter 4th level)
    You learn how to use ropes to suport you in combat. You need at least a free hand to use it. As a move action, make a ranged touch attack. You may choose to use your str modifier instead of your dex modifier on this attack roll. The reach is the same as the lenght of the rope itself. If you hit, you can choose one of the following:
    1-Initiate a grapple with the target.
    2-Hold the target in place. It cannot now move away from you unless it beats you in a str check(size modifiers and BAB apply). As a move action, you may pull an holded target towards you. Roll against each other. If you win, you pull it a 5 feets for each point you had over the target.
    3-Entangle the target. You may then drop the rope and the oponent remains entangled. It must make an escape artist or a STR check of DC 10+your BAB+highest of your STR or DEX modifier as a fullround action to get free.
    4-Fast aproach. If you don't feel confident you can beat the target's str, you can always choose to use the rope to quickly pull yourself to him! Roll a d20 and add your BAB and str modifier. Multiply by 5. That's the number of feets you aproach your target. This movement doesn't cause attacks of oportunity. If you are holding a flying target, you take no penalties and are assumed to be standing in mid air just below it, but you count against the target's carrying weight.

    NOTE:you don't actualy need a rope to do any of this. A long chain, sheets, clothes tied up to each other (or a really long dress), anything long and flexible will work. If it's masterwork, you get a +2 bonus on all checks using it.

    Fast rope:
    (requites BCRT)
    You gain a +4 bonus on all your combat rope checks, and can now use it as a swift action.

    Wind rope:
    (recquires fast rope)
    You gain another extra +4 bonus on all your combat rope checks and can now use it as an imediate action.

    Lighting rope:
    (recquires wind rope)
    You gain another +4 bonus on all your combat rope checks and you can now expend an attack of oportunity to use it anytime during the round, but you need multiple ropes and hands to grab multiple targets.

    Superior combat rope training: (recquires BRCT)
    Your precision with ropes become legendary. Your rope attacks now ignore any nonsolid objects between you and your target, like a wall of fire , strong winds(magical or not), and miss effects. If the target is mirror imaged, then you can easily sweep trough them untill you find the real one.

    In adition, if an oponent grabbed by you tries to teleport or change planes, it brings you along with it.

    Master combat rope training:
    (recquires SCRT)
    You've become so skillfull with the rope that you can make it slip trough any obstacle. Ignore any solid objects between you and your target, as long as you can still pinpoint it's position.

    Even force effects may be overcome by rolling a fighter level check against the level of the effect wich created the force obstacle.

    In adition, as a standard action you may make an imobilizing strike. Roll to hit as normal. If you hit, the target is completely imobilized. They may breack free with an escape artist or STR check of 10+your BAB+your STR or DEX modifier. One try per round.


    Item chain

    Spoiler
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    Tinkerer:
    (recquires fighter 4th level)
    You can build any nonmagical item by a 1/100th of it's market price. Poisons and nonenchanted weapons/armor of special materials count as nonmagical for this. You may craft up to 1000 worth's of items per day. However they're only good in your hands, and everybody will see them as junk, and unwilling to use or buy them.

    Master poisoner:
    Recquires tinkerer.
    DCs for any poison you use increase by your int modifier bonus, you may apply them as a swift action, and they force the oponent to make a save or suffer the effects every round for 1d4 rounds instead of the normal ten turn interval for two checks.

    You may choose to create "delayed" poisons wich only take effect after any amount of time going up to 24 hours.

    Collector:
    Recquires tinkerer.
    You may be unable to craft magic weapons and armor, but you put them to use better than anyone else.

    Any DCs for weapon, shield and armor abilities you use increases by your STR or DEX modifier(your choice).

    You can use potions as a swift action, scrolls and wands as a move action, and you gain a +4 bonus on UMD checks. You can use STR instead of charisma in your UMD checks, as you learn how activate items by sheer brute force and not just force of personality.

    You can use your fighter level instead of the casterl level of any item you use.

    You cannot take this feat if you have levels on any class capable of using magic/psionics or artificer, neither can you take any of those classes if you have taken this feat.


    Armor chain:

    Spoiler
    Show


    Polished armor:
    (recquires fighter 4th level)
    Half the fighter's shield and armor AC become of the deflection type, and they stack with each other and other deflection bonuses.

    In adition, the fighter clearly stands out in combat, granting half his armor and shield deflection bonuses to adjacent allies AC and saves.

    Breack trough:
    (recquires polished armor)
    What others create, the fighter takes down. The fighter may:
    1- Destroy magical effects by hiting them with a magic weapon as an attack. Resolve as a dispel magic effect on an effect on reach of the fighter), but use the fighter level for CL.
    2-Move trough fogs, walls, hard terrain, strong winds, ect, as if they weren't there. This demands a sucessfull fort save against the effect. If the effect didn't demand a save, then use the one it would normaly have. For example, a solid fog would be DC 13+caster's mental modifier. The fighter leaves behind a clear passage that may be used by anyone else and lasts 1 round.


    Tower master:
    (recquires polished armor)
    As an imediate action, the fighter may grant himself and adjacent allies fullcover from one direction untill the begining of his next turn. This ability recquires a tower shield to use.

    Pain spikes
    (recquires breack trough)
    The fighter fits his armor with inward spikes. This sadistic measure hurts him, but also helps to breack out of locking spells, as pain overcomes everything.

    At the begining of the fighters turn, the fighter may remove any spell, SLA or SU effect on him by taking 1d4 damage for each level of the spell/SLA. This ability demands no action to activate.




    Well, and that's it for now. What do people think? If I see interest, I may post some more.
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2009-11-20 at 06:42 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: My fighter "fix" (not just bigger numbers!)

    The armor and rope seems like the only ones that would see actual play in the fighter class: the others would maybe be reserved for dips, or are just worthless. Plus, some of your descine choices seem...questionable. Fighters are the best poison users now? Really?

    Plus, most of the Rope abilities are at least as magical as most of the stuff in the ToB: the only difference is that they're at will. And I can't decide if they're as powerful as they seem, in which case they're broken badly.

    Really, the only thing I see this doing is making a fighter a 2 level dip, probably at 3rd and 6th level, so you get 4 fighter feats.
    He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
    -James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
    Satomi by Elagune

  3. - Top - End - #3

    Default Re: My fighter "fix" (not just bigger numbers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    The armor and rope seems like the only ones that would see actual play in the fighter class: the others would maybe be reserved for dips, or are just worthless.
    I have conflicting feels for how diping a class is. On one hand it shouldn't be 1-2 levels, on the other hand it's not very funny to need to take ten levels to start geting good stuff.

    And could you please point out wich abilities do you consider worthless and why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Plus, some of your descine choices seem...questionable. Fighters are the best poison users now? Really?
    Well, somebody had to be. Poison isn't really a much viable tactic right now for anyone. And since I consider that fighters should be really good at using toys...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Plus, most of the Rope abilities are at least as magical as most of the stuff in the ToB: the only difference is that they're at will.
    They're still not really reality shattering. Unlike shuting down the sun, or just not dying, or healing from one's pure hatred of the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    And I can't decide if they're as powerful as they seem, in which case they're broken badly.
    Again, please point out what exact points you think are worthless and wich are broken. I did the 1st post in around half an hour, and as I pointed out it's more of a brainstorming than anything final.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Really, the only thing I see this doing is making a fighter a 2 level dip, probably at 3rd and 6th level, so you get 4 fighter feats.
    A good point. I'll make a quick change about that, to force people to take at least 4 levels, and more levels for the stronger abilities.

    Done. At least 4 levels to start a chain, and can only advance it with the fighter bonus feats, meaning you need two more fighter levels for each new step.

    This would also mean one would need to take 14 fighter levels to get the full rope chain, the one you considered strongest.
    Last edited by Oslecamo; 2009-11-20 at 06:49 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Default Re: My fighter "fix" (not just bigger numbers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    I have conflicting feels for how diping a class is. On one hand it shouldn't be 1-2 levels, on the other hand it's not very funny to need to take ten levels to start geting good stuff.
    I agree, the problem is that as it stood originally, there really wasn't an incentive to take more than 2 levels, as from what I saw, there weren't more than 4 feats that you would really want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    Well, somebody had to be. Poison isn't really a much viable tactic right now for anyone. And since I consider that fighters should be really good at using toys...
    Right, but I think it's a much better ability for rogues. I don't know, it just feels wrong with the class. It's a nice idea, though. Wouldn't be a bad idea to add it as a rogue special featue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    They're still not really reality shattering. Unlike shuting down the sun, or just not dying, or healing from one's pure hatred of the world.
    A: one of those is a really badly worded ability, that if it was worded in a halfway decent manner, wouldn't. The second is pretty much a common fantasy trope, mainly among totally mundane fighters, so I don't see the problem, and the third has more to do with the way HP is very, very abstract. Also, the devoted spirit could probably use some (su) tags: it's basically modeling the paladin, after all.

    And it's no worse than someone shooting 6 arrows in 6 seconds, or tunneling through rock with a dagger.

    Granted, this may just be a difference of opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    A good point. I'll make a quick change about that, to force people to take at least 4 levels, and more levels for the stronger abilities.

    Done. At least 4 levels to start a chain, and can only advance it with the fighter bonus feats, meaning you need two more fighter levels for each new step.

    This would also mean one would need to take 14 fighter levels to get the full rope chain, the one you considered strongest.
    That's one way to do it. Still, I'm not sure that I'd want to give up that many levels for the abilities. Or, at least, most of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oslecamo View Post
    And could you please point out wich abilities do you consider worthless and why?

    Again, please point out what exact points you think are worthless and wich are broken. I did the 1st post in around half an hour, and as I pointed out it's more of a brainstorming than anything final.
    I'll get to these later: I'm not going to have time right now.
    He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
    -James Graham, 1st Marquess of Montrose
    Satomi by Elagune

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: My fighter "fix" (not just bigger numbers!)

    I like the deflection and armor ones. The deflection feels like the Deflect Arrow, plus some others like the epic version, but works fine for a fighter blocking visible stuff with his equipment.
    The armor one may look a bit overpowered, but I think it may just give him the edge he need to not be completely shutdown in less than 1 round. And since it's still possible to fail, it's fine.

    The rope one is like a ranged lock-down combo. Don't know if it's good or not.

    The item creator one looks more like something to fit a PrC than a feat chain.

    Member of the Hinjo fan club. Go Hinjo!
    "In Soviet Russia, the Darkness attacks you."
    "Rogues not only have a lot more skill points, but sneak attack is so good it hurts..."

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    Default Re: My fighter "fix" (not just bigger numbers!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Roderick_BR View Post
    The rope one is like a ranged lock-down combo. Don't know if it's good or not.
    Think of it this way:

    Caster defenders are always claiming "ROFL I cast fly+wind wall and auto-win against any noncaster!" or "ROFL I teleport away with cheesy spells and interpretations!". Ditto for flying monsters.

    And they're kinda right. It's hard to lock down someone in place when they have much superior mobility than you.

    So, I could either make the fighter fly, an idea wich I really don't like, or I could explore the fantasy trope of chaining distant oponents to force them to engage you.

    This way when the wizard flies up and starts laughing and slinging spells, the fighter can throw his trusty rope and bring him down to earth!

    Quote Originally Posted by Roderick_BR View Post
    The item creator one looks more like something to fit a PrC than a feat chain.
    People are always saying fighters are over dependant of items and don't have class features of their own. So I combined the two and made now the fighter using and abusing items is a class feature of his own.

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