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Thread: Diplomancy

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    drengnikrafe's Avatar

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    Default Diplomancy

    Not so long ago, I sat at this very computer and skimmed a thread on creation of Diplomancers. I laughed at it, figuring I'd never have to use such a clearly flawed and broken thing. Time has passed since then, and now I really want to. (Yes, this backstory is lame. Deal with it).

    So, here are the prerequisites:
    All books, but no dragon magazine.
    10th level, but whatever wealth could be amassed (which is welcome to be significantly above WBL, if a character could convince other characters to give up their money).
    Must be bard, or part bard.

    My DM has already approved the entirity of the concept, and says he will not go back on it no matter how rediculous it gets.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Haven's Avatar

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    Default Re: Diplomancy

    Quote Originally Posted by drengnikrafe View Post
    and says he will not go back on it no matter how rediculous it gets.
    Make a jumplomancer!

    ...Except it takes til level 15. :(
    Last edited by Haven; 2009-11-21 at 01:06 AM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Akal Saris's Avatar

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    Default Re: Diplomancy

    By strange coincident, I just made a diplomancer build today, for the hell of it!

    It's 8th level and my attempt to do it without spells or items, since those make things far too easy :P

    If you want to add in items, just replace the vow of poverty with whatever you like, and add on a custom +30 diplomacy item, an admiral's bicorne (Seawrack), a circlet of persuasion, and spells like divine insight and moment of prescience.

    Those who dislike 1-level dips may with to avert their eyes:
    Diplomancer Jones
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    Old Desert Half-Elf Bard 1/Marshal 1/Binder 1/Psion 1/Dragonfire Adept 1/Incarnate 1/Cleric 1/XYZ 1 (Was thinking Apostle of Peace, but was hoping for a cha-based fast casting PrC rather than Wis)
    BAB +0, Diplomacy +70

    Str 4 (-3)
    Dex 10 (+0)
    Con 12 (+1)
    Int 10 (+0)
    Wis 10 (+0)
    Cha 24 (+7)
    Cha Raised at 4, 8, 7th +2 from vow

    Alternate class features: Half-Elf Bard 1

    Traits:
    1. Honest (+1 to Diplomacy, -1 to Bluff and Sense Motive)
    2. Polite (+1 to Diplomacy, -2 to Intimidate)

    Flaws:
    -2 melee attacks, -2 ranged attacks

    Domains: Community (+2 diplomacy), Mind (+2 diplomacy, bluff, sense motive)

    Feats:
    1st char: Complementary Insight (Synergy bonuses are +3)
    1st racial: Heat Endurance (+4 bonus to endure intense heat)
    1st flaw: Sacred Vow
    1st flaw: Vow of Poverty
    1st bonus vow: Nymph's Kiss
    2nd bonus vow: Vow of Nonviolence
    2nd marshal bonus: Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
    3rd char: Negotiator
    4th vow: Vow of Peace
    3rd bonus psion: Psicrystal
    6th vow: Nimbus of Light
    6th char: extra essentia
    8th vow: Open


    Skills:

    Bonuses:
    Diplomacy:
    +11 ranks
    +9 synergy (know (nobility), bluff, sense motive with complementary insight)
    +7 Cha
    +7 Marshal Aura
    +6 DFA invocation
    +4 insight Silvertongue mask (2 essentia stored)
    +4 exalted vow of peace
    +3 Skill Focus
    +3 Psicrystal
    +2 circumstance nymph's kiss
    +2 perfection Sacred Vow
    +2 racial half-elf
    +2 negotiator
    +2 feat nimbus of light (good only)
    +2 trait
    +4 domain
    = +70


    Sense motive:
    +11 ranks
    +3 synergy
    +2 racial
    +2 domain
    -1 trait
    = +17


    Bluff:
    +7 Cha
    +7 Marshal Aura
    +6 DFA
    +4 insight mask
    +2 racial
    +2 circumstance nymph's kiss
    +2 domain
    -1 trait
    = +29

    Intimidate:
    +7 Cha
    +7 Marshal Aura
    +6 DFA
    +2 negotiator
    +2 circumstance nymph's kiss
    -2 trait
    = +22

    Other:
    -Can always take 10 on Diplomacy, use it as a standard action (Naberius bind from Binder)
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Diplomancy

    Vows are not flaws, they are feats.

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    Default Re: Diplomancy

    Flaws grant feats. I believe he's indicating that the feat is gained at level 1, via a flaw.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Draz74's Avatar

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    Default Re: Diplomancy

    Basics: Half-Elf Bard 6 / Dragonfire Adept 1 / Binder 1 / Marshal 1 / Psion (telepath) 1

    Starting Charisma 18, +2 level boosts, +6 item; net bonus +8.

    Diplomacy check +13 (ranks) +16 (Cha) +5 (feats) +2 (racial) +3 (psicrystal) +3 (Circlet of Persuasion) +6 (synergy) +6 (Beguiling Influence) = +54.

    And you can Take 10, even on a standard action use of Diplomacy, giving you a check result of 64 reliably. Good enough to turn Hostile to Helpful, or Friendly to Fanatic.

    You can increase this further if you want to use the following more drastic measures:
    • Increase Charisma further if you can convince the DM that you've already gotten a Tome of Leadership and Influence (or a friendly caster with Wish)
    • Spend a feat to increase synergy bonus to +9
    • Take the Item Familiar feat
    • Spend feats or levels on Incarnum stuff (access to the Silvertongue Mask soulmeld)
    • Create a custom item of Diplomacy-boosting
    • Convince the DM you've gotten ahold of a Stone of Good Luck (20k gp) -- only adds +1 to Diplomacy, but it's useful in general
    • Sacred Vow, if you don't mind being an Exalted character


    The most important thing your Bard levels give you? The Tongues spell.
    Last edited by Draz74; 2009-11-21 at 01:13 AM.
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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Godskook's Avatar

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    Default Re: Diplomancy

    Let's see:
    -beguiling influence, an all-day buff invocation, obtainable by a 1-level dip into either invoking class provides +6 to bluff/intimidate/diplomacy.
    -Skill focus - may or may not be necessary, depending on your charisma. What's point buy?
    -Half-elf gets +2 to diplomacy
    -Negotiator is another +2
    -Synergy nets +6
    -Ranks are +13

    So, that's +32, without knowing your charisma. Assuming a +6 cloak and a starting 18, you'll have +39. If you can grab skill mastery somehow(rogue 10 is the only way I can think of, but I'm sure someone else can do better).
    Remember, the first 'important' DC is 50, which is when you can make hostile folks helpful and helpful folks fanatical.
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    Sstoopidtallkid's Avatar

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    Default Re: Diplomancy

    The target number is DC 160. That's required to turn someone from Hostile(attempting to remove your intestines and fashion them into an attractive scarf) to Fanatic(willing to remove own guts if you mention your neck is cold) as a full-round action(your chats during combat). DC 60 is the minimum for these builds, at which point you turn them from hostile to friendly as a full-round action.
    [/sarcasm]
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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Diplomancy

    Changeling.

    Rogue 1/Bard9.

    Take the Changeling Rogue substitution level for taking 10 on diplomacy, bluff, gather information, intimidate and sense motive, and doing gather information and gut assess social situation in 1 round, as well as (10+in modifier)x4 skills.

    Take the feat 'force of personality' to add your charisma to your will saving throw for mind affecting stuff.

    Take the feats Wanderer's Diplomacy and Master Manipulator for more things to do with your social skills.

    Make your performance type oratory, and take Subsonics feat at 9th to make it not obvious that you're doing a supernatural effect when you use bardic 'music'.

    Take the skill trick conceal casting to hide your magic.

    Spells to take:
    • Tongues – can't diplomance if they don't inderstand
    • Songbird: More bonus to charisma checks
    • Friendly face: Yet more charisma check bonus
    • Improvisation: Bonus that can apply to many different areas, including diplomacy
    • Detect Thoughts – Know what they're thinking to be able to say what will convince them
    • Charm and (Lesser) Geas – for when plain Diplomancy doesn't work


    Take a shiftweave vest so you've got a bunch of costumes to make good use of your changeling shapeshifting.

    Take a wink broach – cheap, +2 competence bonus to charisma.

    Consider the feats Melodic casting, to increase the DCs on your mind affecting spells, and Soothe the Beast so you can diplomance animals.

    Consider leaving Bard after 6th level, possibly for Evangelist, or Lyric Thaumaturge – the later bardsongs don't really fit diplomancers that well.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Diplomancy

    Try picking up a Dragonheart Graft for that additional untyped +2 :D

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    drengnikrafe's Avatar

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    Default Re: Diplomancy

    Excelent.

    Thank you very kindly, playgrounders. I believe, given the information you have given me, I can build an obnoxious creature to break the campaign, which was exactly my purpose in the first place. That DM really needs to learn where lines should be drawn. And this thing will do it.

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    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Diplomancy

    Don't forget to grab those feats, that let you affect undead, mindless creatures and such (can't remember their names, but there are such).
    In a war it doesn't matter who's right, only who's left.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Diplomancy

    Quote Originally Posted by Akal Saris View Post
    By strange coincident, I just made a diplomancer build today, for the hell of it!

    It's 8th level and my attempt to do it without spells or items, since those make things far too easy :P

    If you want to add in items, just replace the vow of poverty with whatever you like, and add on a custom +30 diplomacy item, an admiral's bicorne (Seawrack), a circlet of persuasion, and spells like divine insight and moment of prescience.

    Those who dislike 1-level dips may with to avert their eyes:
    Diplomancer Jones
    Spoiler
    Show
    Old Desert Half-Elf Bard 1/Marshal 1/Binder 1/Psion 1/Dragonfire Adept 1/Incarnate 1/Cleric 1/XYZ 1 (Was thinking Apostle of Peace, but was hoping for a cha-based fast casting PrC rather than Wis)
    BAB +0, Diplomacy +70

    Str 4 (-3)
    Dex 10 (+0)
    Con 12 (+1)
    Int 10 (+0)
    Wis 10 (+0)
    Cha 24 (+7)
    Cha Raised at 4, 8, 7th +2 from vow

    Alternate class features: Half-Elf Bard 1

    Traits:
    1. Honest (+1 to Diplomacy, -1 to Bluff and Sense Motive)
    2. Polite (+1 to Diplomacy, -2 to Intimidate)

    Flaws:
    -2 melee attacks, -2 ranged attacks

    Domains: Community (+2 diplomacy), Mind (+2 diplomacy, bluff, sense motive)

    Feats:
    1st char: Complementary Insight (Synergy bonuses are +3)
    1st racial: Heat Endurance (+4 bonus to endure intense heat)
    1st flaw: Sacred Vow
    1st flaw: Vow of Poverty
    1st bonus vow: Nymph's Kiss
    2nd bonus vow: Vow of Nonviolence
    2nd marshal bonus: Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
    3rd char: Negotiator
    4th vow: Vow of Peace
    3rd bonus psion: Psicrystal
    6th vow: Nimbus of Light
    6th char: extra essentia
    8th vow: Open


    Skills:

    Bonuses:
    Diplomacy:
    +11 ranks
    +9 synergy (know (nobility), bluff, sense motive with complementary insight)
    +7 Cha
    +7 Marshal Aura
    +6 DFA invocation
    +4 insight Silvertongue mask (2 essentia stored)
    +4 exalted vow of peace
    +3 Skill Focus
    +3 Psicrystal
    +2 circumstance nymph's kiss
    +2 perfection Sacred Vow
    +2 racial half-elf
    +2 negotiator
    +2 feat nimbus of light (good only)
    +2 trait
    +4 domain
    = +70


    Sense motive:
    +11 ranks
    +3 synergy
    +2 racial
    +2 domain
    -1 trait
    = +17


    Bluff:
    +7 Cha
    +7 Marshal Aura
    +6 DFA
    +4 insight mask
    +2 racial
    +2 circumstance nymph's kiss
    +2 domain
    -1 trait
    = +29

    Intimidate:
    +7 Cha
    +7 Marshal Aura
    +6 DFA
    +2 negotiator
    +2 circumstance nymph's kiss
    -2 trait
    = +22

    Other:
    -Can always take 10 on Diplomacy, use it as a standard action (Naberius bind from Binder)
    If you take a lvl in Warlock you can get beguiling influence which gives you an untyped +6 bonus to bluff, diplomacy, and intimidate.
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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Brendan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Diplomancy

    a level in druid or ranger for wild empathy, and if there is one a feat that lets you just use diplomacy for animals instead of just the wild empathy check would make you effective for all battles other than mindless things. however, that means that every new enemy will be mindless due to irritated DMs.
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