Recruiting the Wizard optimizers.

[Narazil]

Hey guys. So, I might be joining an ECL 7 high-power Campaign, where our DM has encouarged us to be munchkins.

I know the usual Batman rout, but here's the kicker: Instead of taking a level as Wizard, you can take a Feat/Caster/Skill Focus Level, yielding either 3 Feats, 2 Caster Levels or a lot of skillpoints.
These levels, however, don't advance BB, saves, only gives con mod hp and int mod skillpoints.

Sources allowed are Wizards, no homebrew or 3rd party.

How would you build a 7th level Human Wizard, with the Focus Levels in mind?

[The Glyphstone]

Caster levels or Spell levels? If the former, forget anything related to Focus Levels and keep your delicious 4th level spells. If the latter...1 level of Wizard and 6 levels of Focus gets you 7th level spells, with which you can simply decimate everything.

[UglyPanda]

Munchkinism != Optimization

The difference between an optimizer and a powergamer is that a powergamer thinks that the RPG is competitive and not cooperative. The difference between a munchkin and a powergamer is that a munchkin will cheat, use shady rule interpretations, and/or exploit things that were clearly meant to be errata'd or were already errata'd.

[Narazil]

Munchkinism != Optimization

The difference between an optimizer and a powergamer is that a powergamer thinks that the RPG is competitive and not cooperative. The difference between a munchkin and a powergamer is that a munchkin will cheat, use shady rule interpretations, and/or exploit things that were clearly meant to be errata'd or were already errata'd.

Well, powergamer. Sorry for using the wrong term.
I guess the correct way of phrasing Caster Focus Level is that it advances spells twice as fast as normal, so level 1 Wizard/level 1 Caster Focus (Wizard) would have the same spells known and spells per day as a third level Wizard, but saves / skills / feats as a level 1.

[Lycanthromancer]

Definitely take the alternate levels. This isn't even a question. Do it right and nothing can touch you. Like, literally. And even if you die, you'll just be back again next round.

Feel free to break the game in however many pieces you find fitting.

There are tons of ways to do so, even in just core.

Can you get access to things like shadowcraft mage and IoSV?

Can you take 10 levels in wizard (thereby getting 9th level spells), then go 10 in archivist (doing the same)?

Something makes me think that your DM doesn't know what he's asking for.

[Yukitsu]

Take 6 alternates and 1 real. You'll be able to cast as a 13th level caster, which means you can start simulacrum shenanigans right now.

[Tavar]

I'm not sure I would go all caster levels, but doing even 4 caster/4wizard levels gives you a effective wizard level of 11 for spells, which means 6th level spells. At that point, it really starts to be rocket tag, and since you still count as a level 7 in terms of ECL, you can decimate everything.

[Kylarra]

Yeah... 7th level spells at level 7 is ridiculous.

[Lycanthromancer]

Ooh! Wizard 1/psion 2/cerebremancer, with early-entry shenananananigans. Then take ur-priest, archivist, and mystic theurge.

Make sure to take Practiced Spellcaster and Practiced Manifester.

[Narazil]

DM knows exactly what's coming for him, and he's optimizing encounters accordingly.
1 Level Wizard and 6 levels of alternate will probably pop out something with Improved Invisibility and extremely long range. Only has to hit me for ~15 HP.

Edit: IotSV I think is go, Shadowmage is not. Neither is Incantrix.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, by far the best option seems to be Wizard 1/Focus Caster 6. Though once you reach 9th level spells, go full Incantatrix (if not allowed, Swiftblade seems fairly good to break action economy, or Dweomerkeeper for silliness). Also, get 18 Con; while 2.5 HP per level doesn't feel like much, giving it up means you really need crap for HP.

Dragonborn Lesser Tiefling would be a superb race; you lose the tasty racials of a Lesser Tiefling, but you get +2 Con, +2 Int, -2 Cha. This would enable 20 Int & Con with rest going to Dex. That means you've got CL 13. Which means 7th level spells. You'll also early qualify for Craft Contingent Spell on level 6 to save your arse.


Then you need to make heavy use of Contingency, Contingent Spells, Greater Mirror Image and company to stay alive, and use stuff like Superior Resistance, Heart of X-spells and company to make sure you're either immune or can save against everything (oh, and Celerity is pretty good). False Life is an excellent spell too; Eternal Wand it if you ban Necromancy.

Oh yeah, and specialize in Conjuration, banning e.g. Enchantment and Necromancy (or if using Craft Contingent Spell, ban Evocation). Pick Abrupt Jaunt from PHBII; it's a very decent instantaneous defense. Pick up Obtain Familiar and have it use Wands or some such.


This leaves you with:
4+5x7 = 39 HP. Some Con boosters can up that though. For the record, an average Fighter 7 has 57 HP (14 Con), so you aren't that horribly off.
7x4+5x6 = 58 skill points. Pick up Concentration, Spellcraft, some Knowledges and maybe Tumble/UMD and call it a day.

+5 Fort
+X Ref where X is your Dex
+X Will (might want to get Keen Intellect to add Int to Will-saves given your lack of class-based boosts)

With Superior Resistance (level 6 spell), they're all +6. You can also get Conviction for additional +3 and maybe a Luckblade or some such (if you're way above average wealth) for +1 + a reroll. Of course, optimally you'll want to avoid rolling saves, but given mostly opposing casters force them, they can counteract your avoidance (though e.g. Battlemagic Perception can help a lot there). Contingent Energy Resistance should obviate the need for a save on a chunk of Ref-save targeting spells.

Stuff like Overland Flight, Phantom Steed and so on should make sure you're hard to reach and some Initiative enhancers should make you able to beat Archers' initiative into Wind Wall. Your offense should be the normal Wizard fare; make sure to pick up Quicken as you'll have spell levels to burn. And yeah, you'll want flaws to roll with it.


So yeah, make sure to use spells to stay alive and to bone the living out of everything that moves (or doesn't, for that matter). And go to town. Oh yeah, and immunities, invisibility and company are your friends.

[ocdscale]

Yeah, I think Glyphstone has the right idea. Hard to beat level 7 spells (even if it means giving up on all feats)
As a thought experiment, is there any way that someone not opting for level 7 spells can remain competitive with someone who does? Level 6 spells with 3 extra feats?

[Narazil]

Eldariel - Where's Dragonborn from? :/

[Kylarra]

Only has to hit me for ~15 HP.

You'd only have 15 more hp if you took normal wizard levels, aka "not enough to make a difference".

[Eldariel]

Eldariel - Where's Dragonborn from? :/

Races of the Dragon. Lesser Tiefling is from Player's Guide to Faerun.

[Lycanthromancer]

Yeah, I think Glyphstone has the right idea. Hard to beat level 7 spells (even if it means giving up on all feats/skills)
As a thought experiment, is there any way that someone not opting for level 7 spells can remain competitive with someone who does? Level 6 spells with 3 extra feats?

You can if you optimize vs the uber-caster who otherwise doesn't.

Wizards are gods, if they choose to be. Infinite wishes by level 1. Legally.

[rockdeworld]

Thinks to self: (Have I started a trend with DMs allowing twinking?)

[Kylarra]

For amusing thought experiment, instead of a wizard, play a sorcerer.

Dragonwrought Loredrake kobold sorc 1/focused 6.

You have 15th level casting thanks to 1 + 6*2 (focused) + 2 (loredrake).

Go nuts with 8th level spells at level 8, next level you have 9th level spells and 19th level casting. Proceed to do whatever the hell you want with the remaining levels.

Actually, if you're not required to take the first level of the caster class (and you use this method), switch it out for say warblade 1 so that you get 12+ con hp at the first level which will buffer you as well as just taking normal caster levels.

[Narazil]

Races of the Dragon. Lesser Tiefling is from Player's Guide to Faerun.

Page of Races of the Dragon? Can't seem to find it.
Edit: The Rebirth stuff?

[Eldariel]

Page of Races of the Dragon? Can't seem to find it.
Edit: The Rebirth stuff?

The first part of the book, from 5 to 20. The mechanical crunch you care about is on 8-11. Basically, it's a +0 LA template.

The relevant crunch:
-2 Dex, +2 Con
Stuff vs. Dragons

Choose one of the aspects: Mind (vision et al.), Heart (breath weapon), Wings (sorta obvious)

Gain stuff by that, lose your standard racial stuff. Lesser Tiefling, on the other hand, is on the back of Player's Guide to Faerun: Basically LA +0 Tiefling that instead of being an Outsider is a Humanoid (Planetouched), losing all the awesome Outsider-benefits and making him subject to both, spells that target Humanoids and spells that target Outsiders.

The relevant crunch that remains after the transformation is:
Humanoid (Extraplanar)
+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha

Since you need Con more than Dex, Dragonborn tradeoff is very good for you. You have to give up Tieflings' racial stuff, but that isn't so amazing anyways and Dragonborn get decent substitutes in either natural wings (so you can fly if targeted by anti-magic to maintain distance) or dozens of modes of vision with good ranges (surprisingly hard to replicate with longlasting spells).

[taltamir]

does he allow epic?
wizard 1/focus 10 = CL 21... epic casting at level 11 = win the game :)

you still get con x total level in HP right? that is, does a focus level give you HP from con, or no HP at all that level?

[Eldariel]

does he allow epic?
wizard 1/focus 10 = CL 21... epic casting at level 11 = win the game :)

Not that easy:
Epic Spellcasting

Prerequisite

Spellcraft 24 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 24 ranks, ability to cast 9th-level arcane spells.


Filling those prerequisites early isn't easy. Even Dragonwrought Kobolds have difficulty doing it.

[Lycanthromancer]

I'm not sure I would go all caster levels, but doing even 4 caster/4wizard levels gives you a effective wizard level of 11 for spells, which means 6th level spells. At that point, it really starts to be rocket tag, and since you still count as a level 7 in terms of ECL, you can decimate everything.

Wizards lose an average of 2.5 hit points and 2 skill points. Considering that the only ability scores a wizard needs are Con and Int (except for ray builds, if they skived out on Transmutation)...

I'd trade those hp and sp for extra spellcasting levels any day of the week.

[Narazil]

does he allow epic?
wizard 1/focus 10 = CL 21... epic casting at level 11 = win the game :)

you still get con x total level in HP right? that is, does a focus level give you HP from con, or no HP at all that level?

Con mod to HP.



Dragonborn fits the theme of the campaign, so it's almost guaranteed to be used.

I think focusing on boosting Con, Int and to some extend Wisdom will be my main goal. Any decent con-boosting Humanoid races?

Wizards lose an average of 2.5 hit points and 2 skill points. Considering that the only ability scores a wizard needs are Con and Int (except for ray builds, if they skived out on Transmutation)...

I'd trade those hp and sp for extra spellcasting levels any day of the week.

Do lose all feats except first 2, though. So very limited metamagic.

[BobVosh]

Not that easy:
Epic Spellcasting

Prerequisite

Spellcraft 24 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 24 ranks, ability to cast 9th-level arcane spells.


Filling those prerequisites early isn't easy. Even Dragonwrought Kobolds have difficulty doing it.

Ya, they have to site around in their hole for centuries, not doing anything at all. Which I recommend you do.

[Lycanthromancer]

I think focusing on boosting Con, Int and to some extend Wisdom will be my main goal. Any decent con-boosting Humanoid races?

Dragonborn dwarf or gnome, of course.

Do lose all feats except first 2, though. So very limited metamagic.

You should be getting into PrCs by level 4, so you're only missing out on a single feat.

Flaws and human (or halfling) as a race should make up for this. Doesn't work with dragonborn, though.

...Wait, do you completely lose out on everything related to HD? Like, you are affected by sleep at level 20?

[Kylarra]

Do lose all feats except first 2, though. So very limited metamagic.

Can always pick them up at 3/level once you've aquired your 9th level casting.

[Malacode]

Because of focus levels, I don't think you'd get spells known as either a Wizard or a Sorc, so unless you spend all your money on scrolls, you can't do much as Wiz 1/Focus 6

[Doc Roc]

What do you want?

Focus levels that give you disproportionately good casting are going to be for the most part wildly more desirable.

Why?

You have D4 HP. Your spells are all that matter. You get more from con-mod than you do from HD. Take as many bloody caster-focus levels as you can.

[Lycanthromancer]

What do you want?

Omnipotence.

Failing that, to win the lottery.