Results 1 to 30 of 30
Thread: Poison Class
-
2009-11-22, 06:33 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Poison Class
Are there any homebrew class(or prestige class) that focuses on poisons, and actually make them good?
I have seen most of wotc poison material, and, except for a few feats, it sucks. bad.
-
2009-11-22, 06:40 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
-
2009-11-22, 06:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Gender
Re: Poison Class
I was thinking of a new poison build too. It was going to be Druid 5/Ninja 2.
Feats: Imp. Unarmed Strikes, Nat Spell, Combat Ref
Main spells: Bull's Str, Owl's Wis, Cat's Gr, Poison, Contagion
-
2009-11-22, 06:53 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2009
Re: Poison Class
Isn't there a Poison Master prestige class in Drow of Underdark?
-
2009-11-22, 08:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: Poison Class
i'm playing a drow in a PbP campaign and have been using the Craft: Poisonmaking skill to great effect brewing juiced up DC20 SleepyJus.
works a treat against things that aren't immune to poison.
unfortunatly, it's also rather expensive to up the DC of the poison.
-
2009-11-22, 08:35 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: Poison Class
With a successful handle animal check and a craft poison making check you extract a number of doses a day out of a creature with poison. This on an animal companion is alright.
Combine that with Master Poisoner (DotUD), Poison Expert & Master Poisoner (CS), and you have a viable character.
-
2009-11-22, 08:39 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Gender
Re: Poison Class
the problem doesn't seem to be the classes's inability to use poison, but the poisons themselves.
Poisons are either ridiculously nonthreatening (so, I take 1d2 dex damage? lol!), or unbelievably expensive (a million gold per dose you say?).
If your class can craft an uber poison, it is better off SELLING it for the afore mentioned million gold than using it for whatever mission it is currently on.
Unless you make some contrived reason why the class can't sell the poison.
The solution really is to houserule a new poison system.I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!
the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.
-
2009-11-22, 09:11 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
Re: Poison Class
To this, I completely agree.
Poisons are extraordinarily expensive and even the good ones are not that scary by the time you can afford to use them. Black Lotus Extract costs 4,500 gold per dose and does 3d6 con damage initial and secondary. This is extremely deadly, but at a DC20 Fort Save and 4,500 gold I wouldn't want to actually use it. By the time that you would consider using them, you are likely fighting Demons/Devils who are immune.
-
2009-11-22, 09:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Poison Class
I still say that Poison Use should be a skill, representing basic and habitual usage of poisons. This would be in addition to actually buying "normal" (i.e. currently existing) poisons and smearing them on your knife. If you have ranks in Poison Use, it would be assumed that you have various poisons of varying strength, much the way that you're assumed to have herbs and bandages if you have ranks in Heal. You'd make a Poison Use check to envenom a blade; you would choose what kind of effect it had (HP damage, fatigue/sickness/etc., stat penalties, stat damage, or whatever) ahead of time. Your skill result would determine the strength and the save DC. You could accept a penalty to your check and either use the skill as a swift action (allowing multiple poisons per combat) or have the poison linger after more than one hit.
Unfortunately, I have no idea how to implement this in a balanced way. I'm not sure what would be an appropriate DC for what kind of effect. I'm very bad at homebrewing, and I know my limitations. However, if I were tasked with homebrewing a way to make poison useful in 3.5, this is how I would start.In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
-
2009-11-22, 09:34 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: Poison Class
I think I'll get on the case, I'll try to homebrew a whole class.
I'll focus on giving it supernatural abilities, that replicate the effects of various poisons.
That way, the class would be able to use poisons free while not being sellable.
-
2009-11-22, 09:42 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2009
- Location
- Fl
Re: Poison Class
Isn't "having bandages" a healing kit? I could go with making poisons some fieldmade cocktail of chemicals instead of items you carry around, but I don't think you meant that.
-
2009-11-22, 09:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Poison Class
You can make a Heal check without having a healing kit. The kit just gives a +2. As I see it, anyone with ranks in Heal probably has the most basic tools available (hence why you can make a Heal check without the kit), but the kit contains proper anesthetics, good bandages of different sizes, and all that good stuff. You can make a perfectly good Heal check without having ever seen a healing kit.
It doesn't make a perfect amount of sense, but it's really more of a mechanical thing than anything else. It's no worse than a spell component pouch, in my mind.In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
-
2009-11-22, 09:51 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2009
- Gender
Re: Poison Class
There is a (Small) penalty for not having a healing kit, and a (small) bonus for having one. The difference between having one and not is about 6 points in a Heal check. You're assumed to have enough things on you to "Make due" in order to use your heal skill.
The same thing for poison use could be done, not even that difficult. Make a 15 the base DC for poisoning a blade (Which deals 1 extra point of damage) and have 20 be 1D6. Points above 20 start having the option of dealing stat damage instead. (Maximum 2D6 at 30) with the various extra effects being penalties to the check. Secondary damage would be another 10 points. Lingering would propably be something like 5 points a round.
-
2009-11-23, 07:50 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
- Gender
Re: Poison Class
I would love to see a skill for poison.
-
2009-11-23, 08:34 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2009
- Location
- In the T.A.R.D.I.S.
- Gender
Re: Poison Class
Have you looked into Pale Masters: The Poisoner's Handbook?
I believe that it's Green Ronin.Originally Posted by The Doctor
-
2009-11-23, 09:58 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Washington, DC
- Gender
Re: Poison Class
This thread is dedicated to the subject. The key takeaway of the thread is that anyone with a few ranks in Handle Animal and Craft (Poison Making) can milk a poison producing creature to get a free dose (Drow of the Underdark). You can also create plant based poisons with Psionic Minor Creation, which you can access via Expanded Knowledge or with 1 level of Psion (Shaper).
So you don't necessarily need a class dedicated to it. In fact, overspecialization should be avoided, since so many creatures are immune to it.
-
2009-11-23, 10:11 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
Re: Poison Class
The problem with a skill for poison is that skills for attacks is horribly unbalanced in most cases.
-
2009-11-23, 10:16 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2006
- Location
- Wandering in Harrekh
- Gender
Re: Poison Class
Why yes, if I do say so myself.
-
2009-11-23, 10:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2008
Re: Poison Class
- Chameleon Base Class [3.5]/[PF]: A versatile, morphic class that mimics one basic party role (warrior, caster, sneak, etc) at a time. If you find yourself getting bored of any class you play too long, the Chameleon is for you!
- Warlock Power Sources [3.5]: Making Hellfire Warlock part of the base class and providing other similar options for Warlocks whose powers don't come from devils.
-
2009-11-23, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Poison Class
I like that homebrew PrC, Telonius. I'll add a link to it in the Poison Handbook if you don't mind.
To the OP, the most poison-focused PrC in official WoTC material that I know of is the Black Dog, from the Dragonmarked sourcebook, if you can't find any homebrews you like. But you're right - most official stuff dealing with poison is pretty darned weak.Handbooks: (Hosted on the new MixMax forums)
[3.5] The Poison Handbook
[3.5] (New) Master of Shrouds Handbook
[3.5 Base Class] Healer's Handbook
Trophies!Spoiler
Thanks to Strategos and Jumilk for the awesome Iron Chef trophies!
-
2009-11-23, 11:09 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
Re: Poison Class
Last edited by BenTheJester; 2009-11-23 at 11:28 AM.
-
2009-11-23, 11:53 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Poison Class
You're telling this to the guy who plays a friggin' Truenamer. I'm well aware that it's very difficult to balance damage-causing skills. That's why I've said outright that I have no idea how to balance it. Still, I think that someone with a good head for homebrew could pull it off.
The closest analogue, I think, would be Iaijutsu Focus, which only really becomes "broken" when you add that prestige class (Iaijutsu Master?) that lets you add CHA to every die of damage. And that's not really Iaijutsu Focus's fault. I think something similar could be done for Poison Use.In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
-
2009-11-23, 11:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Washington, DC
- Gender
Re: Poison Class
So, you're going to have a way to effect constructs, undead, elementals, etc, with poison? What will the fluff be for that, given that most enemies immune to poison have no skin, blood, or digestive system? How will you deal with the fact that most poisons deal ability damage, and many creatures that are immune to poison have no Con or Cha score?
-
2009-11-23, 12:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2009
- Gender
Re: Poison Class
In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers
My compiled Iron Chef stuff!
~ Gay all day, queer all year ~
-
2009-11-23, 12:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: Poison Class
Libris Mortis (I think) had positoxins - poison substitutes that worked against undead and undead only. They were expensive (big surprise) and mostly worked against the mental stats of intelligent undead. It's not a big leap to adapt that.
Elemental poisons are easy enough to conceive too - just think of it as more of an alchemical process, with liquid versions of cold, fire and the like working to weaken the constitution (or other stat) of the opposing elemental.
I have a little more difficulty coming up with something that would affect constructs though. But not every class has to have an answer to every situation. Then they would be wizards.
-
2009-11-23, 05:52 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2009
-
2009-11-23, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
Re: Poison Class
there's a Green Ronin book: Plot And Poison, Guidebook to the Drow.
it contains a rundown on a Craft: Poisonmaking skill which is pretty good. it allows you to craft poison of increased save DC, at an exponentially rising cost in raw materials.
and not all poisons are junk. Drow sleepyjus is very powerful stuff, IF it takes effect quickly.
-
2009-11-23, 10:50 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Gender
Re: Poison Class
undead / werecreatures: a poison with some silver in it, maybe some holy water mixed in.
construct: some anti-magical compounds.
If you make a class, don't make it SKILL based, make it CLASS LEVEL based.
Balancing things off of skill points is really terrible in DnD. At least on class level you can just equate it to caster level.Last edited by taltamir; 2009-11-23 at 10:51 PM.
I do not have a superman complex; for I am God, not Superman!
the glass is always 100% full. Approximately 50% of its volume is full of dihydrogen monoxide and some dissolved solutes, and approx 50% a mixture of gasses known as "air" which contains roughly (by volume) 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.
-
2009-11-23, 10:56 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2007
Re: Poison Class
Handbooks: (Hosted on the new MixMax forums)
[3.5] The Poison Handbook
[3.5] (New) Master of Shrouds Handbook
[3.5 Base Class] Healer's Handbook
Trophies!Spoiler
Thanks to Strategos and Jumilk for the awesome Iron Chef trophies!
-
2009-11-24, 02:46 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2008
- Location
- Italy
- Gender
Re: Poison Class
Any poison use class, or the Master of Poison feat from DoTU.
Use ambush feats from DotU, poison feats from PHII and other Ambush Feats from dragon magazine to raise the poison DC by 8 and lower the opponent save by 4.
Use Complete Adventurer rules for poison crafting.
Dip in classes that lower save like Blackguard(sneak attack!) of Hexblade.
Use Ravages for fiends and Positoxins for Undead.
Have the casters debuff, or use UMD if rogue for debuff spells able to lower saves.
Be creative on the fly.