Mate is forcing a Warlock on me, help!

[WorldWalker]

I was considering starting a game with my friend, (3.5), and we were discussing characters. However, the guy just will not shut up about how amazing Warlocks are. Is there a reason? Why are they so good (if they are at all?)? As far as I can tell, fly, damage at will (that...doesn't? function in an AMF?) and some invocations that seem to mimic a few spells.

Am I missing something?

If they are so fantastic, is it worth going straight warlock? Or is there a particular build that makes them more awesome? Help.

He's practically barging me into this class without an option, and unless they're kick ass, I'd like an option out.

[Innis Cabal]

Its a very good class. Fairly well balanced, not a whole lot of UBER powers...but its fun. I think so at least. I can understand where your friend is comming from. They are one of the most fun arcane classes in the game.

Going straight through, maybe not. There are some cool PrC's for it in numeros splatbooks, but thats up to you. Play what you want in the end

[Yukitsu]

They are pretty weak actually. There's a few builds that do OK, but on a whole, they aren't going to do anything a well made general arcanist can.

[Tavar]

Warlocks can be very fun to play, but they aren't that powerful, baring certain builds. The damage is pretty minor, the spells are outstripped by an equal leveled caster, as can most of their tricks. Really, if you don't want to play one, don't play one. It probably won't end well. Though, if you are concerned about power, there are a couple builds that the playground could show you.

[Kallisti]

Warlocks are pretty awesome if done right. Eldritch Blast deals some pretty damn good damage, and some of their invocations are very nice indeed. The Dead Walk lets you make corpses into temporary zombies for free, Flee the Scene is Dimension Door that leaves behind an illusioin of you, and there are plenty of others. Oh, and while we're at it, all of their buffs get a 24-hour duration, so you can Entropic Shield up the entire party. They're hardly the best class in the game, and they're not that amazing, but they've got decent damage and all kinds of utility and control. I like them better than beguilers for making the lives of enemies miserable. Playing straight Warlock would be silly, though. You should PrC, since IIRC they can get Eldritch Balst and invocations from +1 level of arcane. And there are some PrCs specifically for them, like Eldritch Theurge.

[WorldWalker]

Can anyone name, link or otherwise direct to these builds?

Power I'm not overtly concerned about, I just want to have fun.

Being outstripped by a mage isn't a problem, as High Magic is banned within the campaign world (spells above 6th level, specifically those used by Mages/Druids/Clerics).

The DM claims Warlock is okay due to no actual "Magic" per se.

[Forever Curious]

They are pretty weak actually. There's a few builds that do OK, but on a whole, they aren't going to do anything a well made general arcanist can.

Peshaw, show me a "well made Arcanist" that can deal consistent damage AT WILL in addition to nifty utility abilities.

[Yukitsu]

If it's a magic free game, and you're going for fun, a warlock is a good choice.

I ran one from one to 20 pure, and they can be pretty rewarding. You just need to know which abilities to focus on for your archetype, and stick with them. Me, I went battlefield control, oddly enough.

[The Glyphstone]

Peshaw, show me a "well made Arcanist" that can deal consistent damage AT WILL in addition to nifty utility abilities.

LOL @ Reserve feats?

[Telonius]

Warlock is a class that always has something to do. Eldritch Blast isn't particularly powerful (compare its damage to some of the scaling Evocation spells - and remember that Evocation is generally regarded as sub-par), but you never run out of it. It's a pretty well-balanced class. I really enjoyed playing one in a few one-shot campaigns, but then I like high-charisma classes in general.

[RagnaroksChosen]

I think there is an active warlock handbook over at BG.

[BRC]

Warlocks are a fairly solid class. They aren't unstoppable powerhouses, but they can hold their own and generally make a good addition to any moderately optimized party. You can't really go wrong playing a Warlock.
However, if the class dosn't really appeal to you, don't play it.
To give you a better idea of the class

The main difference between a Warlock and, say, a Sorcerer or Wizard is that their abilities are not limited by X per day. However, because Wizards and sorcerers are designed to have enough spells to survive a days worth of encounters, it's not that big of an advantage.

As for being Fun, if you've got a good imagination, a Warlock can be a very fun class to play. You're flying around shooting people with energy beams. The mechanics of the Warlock class are alot simpler than a Wizard or Sorc, so you can focus on having fun instead of wading through a thousand different spell descriptions. The class does have a decent amount of customization in it depending on what type of warlock you want to play.

[WorldWalker]

Eldritch blast I do get the appeal of, especially when you mix it with some of it's alternates. Clinging something or other, ring a bell? That ability made me quiver. lol.

But invocation wise he didn't seem to shine, maybe I am comparing him too much to an arcanist. But does he have any stiff competition from a NPC/Big bad stand point if high level magic is banned?

I'm a tad worried also that even though it's banned in the world, the DM may throw a law breaker NPC at us.

Could a Warlock even hope to stand up to a Mage?

Also, dragonfire adept, another class that my friend keeps pushing. Views? Sorry for all the questions. I need assistance deciding.

[Temotei]

And warlock lets you play a diplomancer to the max.

[Jade_Tarem]

Peshaw, show me a "well made Arcanist" that can deal consistent damage AT WILL in addition to nifty utility abilities.

If your arcanist *needs* to deal consistent damage at will, then you're doing it wrong.

Also:
Reserve Feats
Archmagi
Any decent summoning build
Chain Gate
etc...

[RagnaroksChosen]

Eldritch blast I do get the appeal of, especially when you mix it with some of it's alternates. Clinging something or other, ring a bell? That ability made me quiver. lol.

But invocation wise he didn't seem to shine, maybe I am comparing him too much to an arcanist. But does he have any stiff competition from a NPC/Big bad stand point if high level magic is banned?

I'm a tad worried also that even though it's banned in the world, the DM may throw a law breaker NPC at us.

Could a Warlock even hope to stand up to a Mage?

Also, dragonfire adept, another class that my friend keeps pushing. Views? Sorry for all the questions. I need assistance deciding.

DFA's are amazing im a huge fan. I personaly think they are more powerfull...

BTW we can make better sugestions if we knew what books where allowed.

[DragoonWraith]

If you're willing to stick through that long, Warlock 12 is a very nice feature. Welcome to the wonderful world of making any scroll in the game ever.

But level 12 is probably the last level I'd be willing to take of pure Warlock. There are some pretty nice PrC options for them.

[Forever Curious]

If your arcanist *needs* to deal consistent damage at will, then you're doing it wrong.

Also:
Reserve Feats
Archmagi
Any decent summoning build
Chain Gate
etc...

LOL @ Reserve feats?

...note to self, think before I talk...

[WorldWalker]

DFA's are amazing im a huge fan. I personaly think they are more powerfull...

BTW we can make better sugestions if we knew what books where allowed.

All books are downloadable buyable if you look hard enough. Hehe. So go wild with what books are allowed, just be sure to name the title your getting it from!

If you're willing to stick through that long, Warlock 12 is a very nice feature. Welcome to the wonderful world of making any scroll in the game ever.

But level 12 is probably the last level I'd be willing to take of pure Warlock. There are some pretty nice PrC options for them.

Could someone name any of these PrC's? Benefits?

Also, dragonfire adept is actually very appealing. If I'm being railroaded into a choice, the warlock appeals for their flying shooty goodness, the Dragonfire adept for...well...everything.

Anyone else have a particular favourite for good reasons?

[BRC]

Eldritch blast I do get the appeal of, especially when you mix it with some of it's alternates. Clinging something or other, ring a bell? That ability made me quiver. lol.

But invocation wise he didn't seem to shine, maybe I am comparing him too much to an arcanist. But does he have any stiff competition from a NPC/Big bad stand point if high level magic is banned?

I'm a tad worried also that even though it's banned in the world, the DM may throw a law breaker NPC at us.

Could a Warlock even hope to stand up to a Mage?

Also, dragonfire adept, another class that my friend keeps pushing. Views? Sorry for all the questions. I need assistance deciding.

A Warlock can indeed stand up to a Wizard. Or at least, he's not any worse at it than anybody else.

What you need to remember about Wizards, is that "A Wizard" tells us nothing about the power level. Even A level X wizard tells us nothing. There are so many spells out there at varying levels of power that it's almost impossible to determine how powerful a wizard is going to be without seeing his spell list and knowing his strategies.
For example, a 20th level Wizard who just stands there blasting won't do that well against a 20th level fighter who charges in and proceeds to smash the Wizard's face in with his greatsword. A Wizard who flies, buffs himself, and target's the fighter's weak saves will dominate.

A Warlock can stand up and hold his own against a blaster wizard, Their damage output on a given round may be lower, but they don't lose their spells if they miss. A warlock will have trouble against a caster prepared to fight Warlocks,

[Telonius]

Eldritch blast I do get the appeal of, especially when you mix it with some of it's alternates. Clinging something or other, ring a bell? That ability made me quiver. lol.

But invocation wise he didn't seem to shine, maybe I am comparing him too much to an arcanist.

Tactically, arcanist isn't typically the sort of character I'd compare the Warlock to. Most Warlocks are closer to a sniper - make it so they can't hit you (fly, etc), target a single foe that other people are having problems with, and fire away. Arcanists on the other hand are generally battlefield controllers or heavy artillery (depending on whether they play Wizards as the game designers intended, or as the collective wisdom of the internet has decreed).

Could a Warlock even hope to stand up to a Mage?

Well, he could hope to, in the same way that a Giacomonk could. (In some ways he'd be better at it, too, since he can fool items and has UMD on his class list). Maybe at low- and mid-levels before Wizards get access to some of the more awful Batman spells he'd have a better shot, but that's probably true of all classes. At higher levels the only thing that can really stand up to a well-built paranoid Mage is a bigger Mage.

[Tyndmyr]

Peshaw, show me a "well made Arcanist" that can deal consistent damage AT WILL in addition to nifty utility abilities.

Hello reserve feats! I consider the trade of one feat for at-will nuking to be a reasonable trade.

Warlocks are solid. Not the highest power class, due to less versatility and nova ability than tier 1's, but I'd consider them quite playable, fun, and being one of the easier casters, bookwork wise. Good for those new to casting. For endurance type fighting, better than average.

[Yukitsu]

As a tangent, the warlock is the perfect class if you want to play a magical school girl.

[AmberVael]

The PrC I most hear mentioned along with Warlock is Hellfire Warlock. Its in Fiendish Codex II, but you can also find it right on the WotC site.
Link.

The benefit is extra damage. Penalty is the con damage, which people usually try and get around with a Binder level dip, or use of a certain soulmeld (I think it is called Strong Heart Vest, but I can't remember for sure).

[WorldWalker]

A Warlock can indeed stand up to a Wizard. Or at least, he's not any worse at it than anybody else.

A Warlock can stand up and hold his own against a blaster wizard, Their damage output on a given round may be lower, but they don't lose their spells if they miss. A warlock will have trouble against a caster prepared to fight Warlocks,

Hmmmm so if the big bad knew we were coming. We'd be screwed lol. I think my friend is considering taking a barbarian. Do a warlock and barbarian mesh well? Complications?

There may be one other class but we're unsure as to what yet. Maybe a psionic.

[WorldWalker]

As a tangent, the warlock is the perfect class if you want to play a magical school girl.

Bahahaha brilliant. lol.

[WorldWalker]

The PrC I most hear mentioned along with Warlock is Hellfire Warlock. Its in Fiendish Codex II, but you can also find it right on the WotC site.
Link.

The benefit is extra damage. Penalty is the con damage, which people usually try and get around with a Binder level dip, or use of a certain soulmeld (I think it is called Strong Heart Vest, but I can't remember for sure).

Ouch at the Con damage. It does state though "If you are somehow immune to Con damage, or if you have no Con score, you cannot use this ability".

Still validated?

[Lord of Syntax]

[BRC]

Hmmmm so if the big bad knew we were coming. We'd be screwed lol. I think my friend is considering taking a barbarian. Do a warlock and barbarian mesh well? Complications?

There may be one other class but we're unsure as to what yet. Maybe a psionic.

If the big bad is a high level wizard who knows you're coming and picks spells to counter the party, then yes, you're screwed no matter what, because you are fighting Batman.

Is this the same friend who is constantly telling you to take Warlock. If you don't want to take the class, have him take it. As for damage, Warlocks and Barbarians mesh well in that they are both damaged focused, but they don't mesh any better than say a Fighter and a Warlock. Nothing about either class causes problems with them working together. Barb smashes things in Melee, Lock blasts things at range.

[Yukitsu]

Technically, I believe you're supposed to have a major bloodline in there, because it advances the hellfire warlock's abilities above the maximum usually allowed.