[4e] Houserules

[Thajocoth]

The game I'm running is switching to have 3 DMs rotating. This will let me play 2/3 of the time. We've agreed that we should agree on houserules instead of switching between them. For the other DMs, this campaign is the only one they've played. One of them wants to add a slew of houserules:

Everyone gets all powers from their class, but can only cast what they can cast. So you pick which level 1 encounter power to use when you use it...

Anything that's ranged can also be used as melee. This also allows a ranged character to flank. However, a ranged attack will, even if used as melee, provoke AOs from everyone except for the target.

Everyone has combat advantage against a flanked target.


How do I explain to them how changing the system so dramatically is such a horribly horrible idea?

[Mando Knight]

Everyone gets all powers from their class, but can only cast what they can cast. So you pick which level 1 encounter power to use when you use it...

No. No no no no no no no. That takes away one of the Human's schticks (picking an extra at-will attack at level 1), one of the Wizard's abilities (picking a different Daily each day), and one of the Wizard's Implement Mastery options (replacing an encounter power on the fly). Even worse, combat will slow down even more when players stop to decide not only between their level 1 and 3 encounter attack powers, but between all of the level 1 and 3 encounter attack powers every time they want to use one.

Anything that's ranged can also be used as melee. This also allows a ranged character to flank. However, a ranged attack will, even if used as melee, provoke AOs from everyone except for the target.

RAW except for the last bit. It's part of the reason why Archer style Rangers get Defensive Mobility.

Everyone has combat advantage against a flanked target.

Ugly. Eliminates the Distant Advantage feat, and kills a lot of combat maneuvering. Any monster groups will be able to take down the Defender easily by flanking him with two Soldiers or Brutes and then annihilating him with now-more-accurate shots from Artillery, Skirmishers, and Controllers.

[holywhippet]

None of those changes seem terribly unbalanced. They first one will make things a bit easy for the players since they can pick the powers best suited to a particular fight. It isn't overwhelming though as you generally won't win a fight a lot more convincingly by having a particular set of powers than if you don't.

I don't see why it wouldn't attract an AoO from the target - that's about my only real objection to the ranged issue. There are feats allowing a ranged attacker to take advantage of an existing flank.

This last houserule works both ways - the monsters can get combat advantage as easily as the players can.

[Asbestos]

I agree with pretty much all that MK says and would like to reiterate that this will seeeeeriously slow things down. It'll also turn everyone into Schroedinger's Wizard which will certainly unbalance things as they will always be prepared for everything. Things will most certainly be unbalanced and tactics will be nonexistent.

[RebelRogue]

RAW except for the last bit.

I somehow missed that you didn't need a melee weapon to flank anymore, so thanks for that one. I guess it's just an old 3.5 habit of mine.

[Starsinger]

I'm partial to atleast letting people have 2 encounters known per encounter slot. Since there are some fights where you just don't want to use Divine Glow, but would rather use Command.

[Decoy Lockbox]

I'm partial to atleast letting people have 2 encounters known per encounter slot. Since there are some fights where you just don't want to use Divine Glow, but would rather use Command.

I'm actually doing this in a game of mine. Its no-item, so to make up for the lack of item utility, the players get "linked slot" encounters, and extra utility powers at odd levels. Its working very well so far.

[Kurald Galain]

Everyone gets all powers from their class, but can only cast what they can cast. So you pick which level 1 encounter power to use when you use it...

This is a really bad idea because of the way it slows down gameplay (and also, because "all powers" means four from the PHB, three more from Martial Power, three from various Dragon Magazines, and one from the PHB Heroes Minis).

If it bothers someone that his characters have too few useful things to do in an ancounter (which does appear to be a common sentiment at low heroic levels), start the campaign at level 7. Problem solved.

Anything that's ranged can also be used as melee. This also allows a ranged character to flank. However, a ranged attack will, even if used as melee, provoke AOs from everyone except for the target.

Everyone has combat advantage against a flanked target.

None of this is horrible or unbalancing, actually.

It is important to realize that many rules in many systems are arbitrary. For instance, flanking gives you a +2 to hit. If you would make that a +1 or a +3, you would not "horribly unbalance" the game, because 1, 2 and 3 are all arbitrary numbers. So house rules like these can't really hurt (although they can confuse).

[dsmiles]

The game I'm running is switching to have 3 DMs rotating. This will let me play 2/3 of the time. We've agreed that we should agree on houserules instead of switching between them. For the other DMs, this campaign is the only one they've played. One of them wants to add a slew of houserules:

Everyone gets all powers from their class, but can only cast what they can cast. So you pick which level 1 encounter power to use when you use it...

This is strange. It defeats the purpose of guiding a character's devolpment over the course of the game. Bad for story, good for munchkins.

Anything that's ranged can also be used as melee. This also allows a ranged character to flank. However, a ranged attack will, even if used as melee, provoke AOs from everyone except for the target.

OK, use in melee provoking AoOs, balanced. Flanking with a ranged weapon? Isn't there a specific feat for that? Maybe I'm thinking 3.5e...

Everyone has combat advantage against a flanked target.

No. Not good. Only active flankers should get the bonuses associated with combat advantage, unless they have a specific feat, class ability, or power that allows this.

How do I explain to them how changing the system so dramatically is such a horribly horrible idea?

Just explain it to the other DM. There are certain rules in place that keep the game in balance. Change those rules and suddenly you're not playing DnD, you're playing...I don't know what you're playing...

[Kurald Galain]

This is strange. It defeats the purpose of guiding a character's devolpment over the course of the game. Bad for story, good for munchkins.

I don't think it's good for munchkins, really. Generally, there is at each level one power that is obviously the best for a given build, so the munchkin will simply use that one every time. On the other hand, this is bad for (1) novice players, who may well be overwhelmed, and (2) neurotic tacticians, who want to milk every bonus no matter how irrelevant from every turn.

(as I keep saying, the essence of 4E is that doing 20 damage now is better than thinking for a minute and then doing 23 damage)

Flanking with a ranged weapon? Isn't there a specific feat for that?

No. You can also flank with an orb, or barehanded.

No. Not good. Only active flankers should get the bonuses associated with combat advantage,

It's no big deal, the bonus for flanking generally doesn't matter anyway. It's only important when rogues are involved, for who it would indeed be fair to spend a feat on ranged flanking (a feat which already exists, btw).

[Thajocoth]

I got him to realize that it's mostly ridiculous.

However, they're still adding "Point blank shooter" as a multiclass feat with a few sub-feats. After a few feats, a ranged person can essentially use their ranged as melee. (Including at the end, taking AOs with a ranged basic.) But it's AS melee, so something like Prime Shot wouldn't effect the attack.

[Yakk]

A melee attack can engage in OAs. That is about the only advantage melee attacks have over ranged (plus some powers that trigger basic melee attacks).

A ranged attack provokes OAs. With a bow, you can flank and get combat advantage, and get prime shot, and the like. The OA provoking is pretty standard.

There are a handful of attacks that don't match the above rules, but they tend to be ranger encounter/daily powers. Rangers can get attacks that don't trigger OAs at all and are bow based.

In short, most of the rule is already there for point-blank shots. The only real difference is that you cannot take OAs, and you provoke OAs from your target, by default.

[dsmiles]

A melee attack can engage in OAs. That is about the only advantage melee attacks have over ranged (plus some powers that trigger basic melee attacks).

A ranged attack provokes OAs. With a bow, you can flank and get combat advantage, and get prime shot, and the like. The OA provoking is pretty standard.

There are a handful of attacks that don't match the above rules, but they tend to be ranger encounter/daily powers. Rangers can get attacks that don't trigger OAs at all and are bow based.

In short, most of the rule is already there for point-blank shots. The only real difference is that you cannot take OAs, and you provoke OAs from your target, by default.

I actually added a racial epic tier feat that allows a goblin (only) to actually threaten 3 squares with a pistol or rifle. OA, anyone?

[Vitruviansquid]

My basic rule regarding houserules is this: Don't make houserules until you understand the system.

I'm sure your fellow DM's will understand if you ask them to play the system for at least a couple of sessions before thinking up ways to improve it.

[Asbestos]

I got him to realize that it's mostly ridiculous.

However, they're still adding "Point blank shooter" as a multiclass feat with a few sub-feats. After a few feats, a ranged person can essentially use their ranged as melee. (Including at the end, taking AOs with a ranged basic.) But it's AS melee, so something like Prime Shot wouldn't effect the attack.

Honestly, I don't understand the point of this. Have you found ranged builds particularly gimped in 4e that they need to basically be 'ranged melee'? Are your battles in 10'x10' rooms? Is it somehow difficult to stay out of melee as a ranged build (considering how many ranged builds have some sort of 'run the crap away from melee' feat/power)