GURPS 4e: Caravan to Ein Arris

[Nocturne]

Hi, All

I've been reading through the GURPS Basic Set, and (being wholly disillusioned with D&D 4e) I'm ready to start a game with some friends!

I wonder if anyone here has played through the free adventure "Caravan to Ein Arris." It looks pretty cool, but I was hoping to get peoples' experiences.

It's set in an Arabian type world in TL3 ("Medieval" type technology), with no magic.... at least, the adventure specifically states that if magic exists in the world, the PCs don't know about it. Coming from D&D where magic is staple, a no-magic fantasy setting sounds like a really nice change! I'm thinking of introducing psionics into the world, though - although perhaps not available to the characters at the outset, they might discover latent talents when they meet their first psion.

The adventure gives some interesting hooks for further exploration of the world at the end. Plus, it is huge, so I'm thinking it will probably take at least two or three play sessions to finish. It's very heavy on the roleplaying (as opposed to hack 'n slash), and seems to provide opportunities for any character type to thrive. But I gather this is typical of most GURPS adventures?

Any feedback/input you guys could provide would be most helpful! :)

Cheers
Nocturne

[Matthew]

I have not run it or played it, but I did read through it a couple of years back with half a mind to do so. Any particular worries?

[Nocturne]

I have not run it or played it, but I did read through it a couple of years back with half a mind to do so. Any particular worries?

Not particularly, no. Just that I've never run (or played) GURPS before, and it seems quite radically different to the kinds of games we would play in D&D. I'm hoping my party is mature enough to handle the rather "heavy" roleplaying, but I think if they are, they're going to love it! :)

I'll just have to make sure I run the social encounters very well, and make sure the players know that what few combats there are will be deadly! There's no fast healing, and certainly no Raise Dead!

Cheers
Nocturne

[mikeejimbo]

Remember that GURPS generally requires a lot more GM prep-work (or amazing improvisational skill). There aren't a lot of pre-written adventures for it, so you'll probably have to do a lot of extrapolation from Caravan to Ein Arris.

That said, I haven't actually read the adventure. I suppose I should, given that it's free and all.

[Nocturne]

Remember that GURPS generally requires a lot more GM prep-work (or amazing improvisational skill). There aren't a lot of pre-written adventures for it, so you'll probably have to do a lot of extrapolation from Caravan to Ein Arris.

That's one of the things that I'm half afraid of, since I generally don't have much time. The other half of me is excited; I've already got like 5 ideas for their second adventure! :)

The other thing I half like about it is that as I said it should take quite awhile to complete that one adventure. We often have one play session, leave with lots of grand ideas, and then it fizzles out and we don't play again for over a year. I'm hoping this adventure will keep us busy for quite awhile (and give me time to really plan the second adventure while they're still playing through the first one).

[warmachine]

If you don't have much time maybe the Dungeon Fantasy line is what you're after, though I've never read them. There is the Banestorm fantasy world book and Fantasy genre explanation book, of course. I've never read them either. You'll find people who've read these books at the SJGames forum.

[Satyr]

Dungeon Fantasy is pretty much Gurps: D&D. You could just use ait as an expy and play stuff like Red Hand of Doom, or something. It is fun, and creates a very narrow framework of orientatin for fantasy games.

Gurps Fantasy is an absolute standard iece of work. It pretty much discusses how to run and play fantasy games, different genres of fantasy, different stylistic devices, times, technolgies, forms of magic... and so on. It is not so much a predefined setting, it is a guideline and a tool box for creating your own ones, and a pretty good one at that. If you think that you already know pretty much everything about fantasy rpg's, then it idoesn't offer so much new stuff, but it is a good standard stuff, and whenever I tinker with a fantasy setting, I look thorugh the book for inspiration or at least confirmation.

Banestorm is a setting on its own, and one I foind particularly depressing. I think that the core idea of the setting - humans from real world history are sumoned to a fantasy setting and establish their kingdoms there - is a brilliant idea, and easily the foundation of a truly extraordinary and great game, except it really doesn't. Banestorm is one large collection of wasted potential. It has this really good idea in its core, and it does so little with it, and what it does is mostly bad. It is just frustrating.

[Jayabalard]

Keep in mind that combat in GURPS can be quite deadly, especially if you're running with point low level characters, or even fairly high point level characters that are primarily non-combatants (which are a real possibility in GURPS).

Banestorm is a setting on its own, and one I foind particularly depressing. I think that the core idea of the setting - humans from real world history are sumoned to a fantasy setting and establish their kingdoms there - is a brilliant idea, and easily the foundation of a truly extraordinary and great game, except it really doesn't. Banestorm is one large collection of wasted potential. It has this really good idea in its core, and it does so little with it, and what it does is mostly bad. It is just frustrating.

I'm not really sure what you find so objectionable about it... I'm a fair fan of banestorm; in general, it seems to do a very good job of being a "real" world. The history, trade, and world politics all hang together really well, and I spend far less time saying "Bwuh?" to myself as I try and understand how the world would actually work than I do for most fantasy game worlds.

My experience with Gurps fantasy and Banestorm in particular was 2e/3e instead of 4e, where banestorm was the standard fantasy setting and was part of GURPS fantasy instead of being it's own book, though I recall that Tredroy, at least, was it's own book... so perhaps there's been some major shift in the world since then.

[Gecks]

Remember that GURPS generally requires a lot more GM prep-work (or amazing improvisational skill).

Actually, I've always found GURPS very quick to play and easy to improv, after the intial hurdle of (compared to D&D) slow, math intensive character generation. Everything basically breaks down to a 3d6 roll against either a stat or a skill, and, especially when you are new, the key is to not worry too much about rolling against the "right" stat or skill, and just go with what makes sense.

And if you need a random mook to fight, just give him some low-average stats in the 4 abilities, a reasonably low weapon skill, and toss him in there. I actually find D&D, with the detailed, comprehensive stat blocks, much more difficult to improv. Of course individual mileage may vary, and I am used to 3E GURPS, 4E may add some extra complications.

Honestly, the most difficult thing about switching to GURPS is the lethality of the combats, which I believe the OP and others have already alluded to; even players warned ahead of time tend to forget in the heat of the moment, and doing something which would be only moderately dangeous/daring in D&D can get a character dropped in the space of a single turn. Generally speaking, two 25pt mooks against a single 100pt combat-focused PC is often a coin-toss; make it 3 mooks and that PC is going to be in serious trouble.

[Nocturne]

Actually, I've always found GURPS very quick to play and easy to improv, after the intial hurdle of (compared to D&D) slow, math intensive character generation.

Can I be really honest with you? Everyone says creating a character in GURPS is slow, maths intensive and generally head-hurting stuff. :) But I statted out a couple characters last weekend using the Character Builder (can't remember what it's called) software from SJ Games, and actually found character building easier and so much more intuitive than D&D, even with a character generator!

The Caravan to Ein Arris has a fair amount of combat in it, but also plenty of places for gamblers, merchants, and doctors to shine. Even shoemakers would have a hard time being bored! ;) That's one of the things that attracts me to the system; but you're right - if the chances of having non-combatants in the party are high (and they are), then any combat situation is going to be even more deadly. How do I pull my punches to avoid a TPK in the first adventure, without making it obvious that's what I'm doing?

Most of the fights in the adventure are avoidable - I just need to strongly remind players, at every opportunity, that getting into a fight is probably not what they want to do, sometimes. If they get into one anyway, and all die, it's gonna really hurt!

[Cybren]

The most important thing? Make sure the players know what sort of characters to make.

Having an eclectic band of bakers and mercenaries together would probably be a bad idea for long term games, since bread doesn't help much in combat and warriors are no help in a bake sale.

Establish some guidelines of how you'd like the characters to look "a weapon skill at at least X" and "most primary fighters should have a backup weapon and an unarmed skill".

Note how certain skills, like Stealth, or Hiking, are generally only as good as the lowest score in the party.

Point out that characters are all literate by default (illiteracy being a disadvantage), and that most characters didn't sprout from the ether. They have hometowns (meaning, Area Knowledge), and circles that they ran with (Savoir Faire, streetwise, etc).

There's a post on the steve jackson games forums that i stole that info from but i can't find it for the life of me.

Basically- determine what kind of adventures the player characters will be going on. Tell people that, so they know what kind of abilities to get! If you show up for the "fight off psychic monster" game with a chevalier you might be a little miffed.

[Satyr]

Can I be really honest with you? Everyone says creating a character in GURPS is slow, maths intensive and generally head-hurting stuff. :) But I statted out a couple characters last weekend using the Character Builder (can't remember what it's called) software from SJ Games, and actually found character building easier and so much more intuitive than D&D, even with a character generator!

For your NPC needs, just build a few templates (or use those in the rule books) and take them as a base. Creating charakters taken from templates is usually a lot simpler than creating them from scratch, and as Gurps: Dungeon Fantasy can easily proof, is actually a lot easier than creating characters in D&D; both PC's and NPC's.

And there is a fan-made collection of ordinary people templates floating around the net; I will try to find the link.

[Megaduck]

I wonder if anyone here has played through the free adventure "Caravan to Ein Arris."

I haven't played it, but it sounds cool. It's a free adventure?

Where do you get it?

[Satyr]

It is free and can be downloaded from e23, the online shop of Steve Jackson games. Link.

[Unwitting Pawn]

There's a post on the steve jackson games forums that i stole that info from but i can't find it for the life of me.

I think this is what you were looking for.

[Cybren]

Indeed! I always forget what to search for to find it. should probably bookmark that page.

Also- I see the banestorm game started up. I hope that's going well, UP.

[Unwitting Pawn]

Also- I see the banestorm game started up. I hope that's going well, UP.

Thanks

Turning back to the OP: Although Caravan to Ein Arris may be a "no magic" scenario, think about how much healing is available; also consider how much combat in the story is unavoidable. GURPS is rarely instanly lethal, but serious wounds could hamper the PCs in the short to medium term.

The default rate of natural healing in GURPS (p.B424) is 1 HP per day (provided a successful HT roll). The Caravan to Ein Arris adventure may countermand that, but it's worth checking. Certainly it seems to mention the Herb Lore skill, which GURPS normally considers a "magical" skill (p.B199), so there may be room to include options like a PC able to make herbal remedies to recover HP more quickly (aka Healing Potions with the serial numbers filed off ).

[Nocturne]

Thanks
The default rate of natural healing in GURPS (p.B424) is 1 HP per day (provided a successful HT roll). The Caravan to Ein Arris adventure may countermand that, but it's worth checking. Certainly it seems to mention the Herb Lore skill, which GURPS normally considers a "magical" skill (p.B199), so there may be room to include options like a PC able to make herbal remedies to recover HP more quickly (aka Healing Potions with the serial numbers filed off ).

Yes, I thought about that. If a character doesn't die, but gets reduced to 1/4 of his HP or something, he's still effectively "out of the adventure" because of the slow healing. But Herb Lore is a good option - I won't go overboard though. If the default rate is 1HP per day (2 under the care of a physician[*]), maybe taking herbal remedies could double that... that sounds reasonable?
[*] Although GURPS says physicians shouldn't really be available below TL5 (I think), I'm going to allow them in my TL3 campaign. There's no anesthetic, no pharmaceuticals, and understanding is limited to the 4 humours, but they have a basic understanding of the skeletal and musculature systems, which should be enough that they can provide better than average care.

[Cybren]

the first aid skill will still be helpful (obviously). Also, as the book suggests you may not have Physician in your gameworld, but you'll have Esoteric Medicine or Pharmacy (Herbal) in its place. Esoteric Medicine is pre-scientific, often mystical approach to healing, and Pharmacy (Herbal) is using plants and whatnot (procured with the Naturalist skill!) to make remedies.

As GM you may decide Esoteric Medicine is just as effective as Physician, or make it a more colorful version of First-Aid, or make it complete hooey used to sham villagers.

Herb Lore is a pretty "magical" skill. It's analogous to Alchemy, letting you make magical elixers (like invisibility or healing potions) using materials you procure in the wild. GURPS Magic has stats for all sorts of elixers and how to brew them, etc. Each different elixer is its own skill that defaults to Herb Lore/Alchemy at some penalty. You might want to look at that, or you may just want to come up with things on your own.

[Nocturne]

Herb Lore is a pretty "magical" skill. It's analogous to Alchemy, letting you make magical elixers (like invisibility or healing potions) using materials you procure in the wild. GURPS Magic has stats for all sorts of elixers and how to brew them, etc. Each different elixer is its own skill that defaults to Herb Lore/Alchemy at some penalty. You might want to look at that, or you may just want to come up with things on your own.

Cool! Will definitely look at that, thanks! Also Esoteric Medicine looks good as a substitute for Physician. :)

[fusilier]

What I usually do is make cheat sheets for GURPS. I write down some info about injuries and healing, and make sure I reference the page number so I can look it up quickly. Maybe make a note about weapon breakage, if you want to use that. You'll find you only need a subset of the rules -- for example, you probably won't need to worry about reload times for a tommy gun.

As for NPC's -- I usually write down numbers that look good, and don't even think about points. Because they lack background skills they will usually have far fewer points than the player characters. Take a look at some of the character templates for ideas.

Character generation -- a computer program of some sort is almost a necessity. This is mainly because the way skills are paid for. There are also a lot of strange inter-relations among skills, so you need to pay attention. I use a fairly simply program (GURPS Character Sheet), and simply double check the rules for certain skills as I add them. It's not actually that hard to make characters by hand, if you have the point-cost tables handy.

As GM you will have to come up with modifiers to skill rolls on the fly . . . it may take a session or two until you are comfortable with this, but you should catch on pretty quickly. Remember the players don't have to roll lower than their skill if its something that's particularly easy for a trained person to accomplish (i.e. easy tasks should have positive modifiers).

Concerning healing, if you have a doctor around they can help the players heal faster. Also, characters can function when not at full hit points.

Literacy. At TL3, literacy should not be the default (although I'm more familiar with Gurps 3rd ed, so I may be wrong). Literacy should be an advantage, with illiteracy being the norm.

There's a different mindset to approaching GURPS when compared to D&D, some players take a long time to come around to it.

Good luck, and have fun!

[Nocturne]

What I usually do is make cheat sheets for GURPS. I write down some info about injuries and healing, and make sure I reference the page number so I can look it up quickly. Maybe make a note about weapon breakage, if you want to use that. You'll find you only need a subset of the rules -- for example, you probably won't need to worry about reload times for a tommy gun.

LOL - yes, that's a great idea! And no, there won't be any tommy guns. ;)

As for NPC's -- I usually write down numbers that look good, and don't even think about points. Because they lack background skills they will usually have far fewer points than the player characters. Take a look at some of the character templates for ideas.

That's one of my biggest failures when it comes to GMing. I complain about lack of time, but I spent an abnormal amount of time crafting the stupid beggar the PCs will meet for thirty seconds, in one adventure, and never again. I'll end up giving him background skills and a two page description of where he came from. I need to learn to force myself to KISS sometimes. :)

Character generation -- a computer program of some sort is almost a necessity. This is mainly because the way skills are paid for. There are also a lot of strange inter-relations among skills, so you need to pay attention. I use a fairly simply program (GURPS Character Sheet), and simply double check the rules for certain skills as I add them. It's not actually that hard to make characters by hand, if you have the point-cost tables handy.

Haven't tried crafting a character by hand yet. Will give it a try - but I think you're right about an app being required. P.S. the name of that tool was the GURPS Character Assistant.

As GM you will have to come up with modifiers to skill rolls on the fly . . . it may take a session or two until you are comfortable with this, but you should catch on pretty quickly. Remember the players don't have to roll lower than their skill if its something that's particularly easy for a trained person to accomplish (i.e. easy tasks should have positive modifiers).

Hmm, good point. I guess I'll just have to feel it out, and eventually everything will fall into place.

Concerning healing, if you have a doctor around they can help the players heal faster. Also, characters can function when not at full hit points.

True, but when the main "fighter" is at 1/3 of his HP (and can only heal 1 or 2 a day), combat becomes much less fun.

Literacy. At TL3, literacy should not be the default (although I'm more familiar with Gurps 3rd ed, so I may be wrong). Literacy should be an advantage, with illiteracy being the norm.

Now that is a very interesting observation, one I never thought of before. I'll certainly take it under advisement! (Of course, if so few people can read, then there won't be nearly as much to read)

Thanks, fusilier!! :)

[Unwitting Pawn]

Character generation -- a computer program of some sort is almost a necessity. This is mainly because the way skills are paid for. There are also a lot of strange inter-relations among skills, so you need to pay attention. I use a fairly simply program (GURPS Character Sheet), and simply double check the rules for certain skills as I add them. It's not actually that hard to make characters by hand, if you have the point-cost tables handy.

Haven't tried crafting a character by hand yet. Will give it a try - but I think you're right about an app being required. P.S. the name of that tool was the GURPS Character Assistant.

There may be some confusion. GURPS Character Assistant is indeed the "official" software for build GURPS 4e characters. However, I think fusilier was actually talking about an "unofficial" java-based web app when s/he said GURPS Character Sheet - have a look here.

Literacy. At TL3, literacy should not be the default (although I'm more familiar with Gurps 3rd ed, so I may be wrong). Literacy should be an advantage, with illiteracy being the norm.

Now that is a very interesting observation, one I never thought of before. I'll certainly take it under advisement! (Of course, if so few people can read, then there won't be nearly as much to read)

AFAIK, what fusilier says about literacy is true from an historical/realism perspective and was also true from a game-mechanical perspective in GURPS 3e. However, this is one of the things that changed in 4th Edition. The reason I believe, is twofold: Firstly, as your response indicated, the default assumption of players from games such as D&D will be that their PC is literate, not that they should have paid for it as an advantage in chargen if they wanted it - which is an unnecessary confusion. Secondly, in time-travelling or dimension-hopping games, you could end up with PCs whose point values change as the default assumption of their home TL is now at odds with the TL of their new environment - that was an inelegant side-effect of how literacy worked in 3rd Edition.

The default assumption in GURPS 4e avoids those potential problems by saying that all PCs will be literate in their native tongue, unless they are built otherwise. This is regardless of TL or the cultural norm. The rules do say that if the GM beleives/decides that most people in the gameworld would be illiterate, then PCs taking Illiteracy should not count the points against the disadvantage limit (see p.B24, near bottom of page).

Actually, the language system in 4th Edition is more elegant generally, and allows for differing levels of spoken and written comprehension for each language.

[Nocturne]

There may be some confusion. GURPS Character Assistant is indeed the "official" software for build GURPS 4e characters. However, I think fusilier was actually talking about an "unofficial" java-based web app when s/he said GURPS Character Sheet - have a look here.

Yes, I know what he meant, and I've seen that app as well. I was just reminded, while reading his post, of the name of the app I mentioned earlier, so I decided to point that out. :)

[Unwitting Pawn]

Yes, I know what he meant, and I've seen that app as well. I was just reminded, while reading his post, of the name of the app I mentioned earlier, so I decided to point that out. :)

OK. My bad, sorry

[fusilier]

Actually, the language system in 4th Edition is more elegant generally, and allows for differing levels of spoken and written comprehension for each language.

Agreed. Even though I mainly play 3rd, I've always liked 4th's language system.

Literacy, I will have to take a look at 4th's rulebook when I get the chance. Your argument about a time-traveling game is fine, but it doesn't really matter. In such cases the GM decides. Similar things can occur with social stigma, where characters who travel can acquire/lose social stigma depending upon the party's current location. Need to remember that there really isn't any mechanism for maintaining a certain point level. Characters which lose limbs, get the appropriate disadvantage, but it is not offset by more points to spend on the character. The main issue is one of fairness. If somebody designs a TL3 character who doesn't take the literacy advantage, and the GM whisks him off to some future setting(s), where everybody has literacy by default, then really his illiteracy is a disadvantage, and the character should receive the extra points during construction. On the hand, is it appropriate to require/encourage everybody to take the illiteracy disadvantage if the campaign is set in the Dark Ages (at least for everybody who isn't a cleric)? That would either fill up the characters' available disadvantage point-pool, or the GM could rule that it's there by default, doesn't count against the disadvantage point limit, make the appropriate adjustment to total allowable point cost, and therefore make literacy an advantage in all but name.

In 3rd edition, all this may have been covered in source books, and not in the main rule book. Although it would have been entered into Compendium I.

It's all about doing what's most appropriate for the setting.

GURPS Character Assistant -- I'm a long time Mac-user, so GCA has never really been an option for me. :-( But, I've been very happy with Gurps character sheet. :-)

P.S. I've always enjoyed the description of semi-literacy.

[fusilier]

True, but when the main "fighter" is at 1/3 of his HP (and can only heal 1 or 2 a day), combat becomes much less fun.

. . .

Thanks, fusilier!! :)

No problem.

So there's a couple of ways around the problem of slow healing. Like I said, a doctor should speed it up. First Aid alone might restore as much 3 or 4 points (can't remember what it is for TL3). Basically, as players they will probably become weary of combat pretty quickly. This happened in the last game I ran. I had this big combat planned out, and the players simply surrendered! I wasn't originally going to even give them that option, but the Jesuit priest blocked the way, and the guards weren't going to attack a priest (next time I'll have to use protestant mercenaries). Anyway, they totally "thought" their way to the end of the adventure! I had to improvise a lot, but it turned out good, and I got a lot of complements.

In other games the characters have simply waited a week or so to heal up before continuing on -- if they had the opportunity.

There's one other way around your concern, but it might be a bit complicated if this is your first game --

In 3rd edition, there was an alternate wound system that made perfect sense for sword fighting. Basically, every wound was recorded independently, and then every wound would heal at one point a day. First-aid was applied independently for every wound too. You still need to keep track of the overall number of hit points the character had lost, because this affects things like speed and conciousness. But it meant that a character who had received a lot of minor "nicks" during a battle, would be ready for battle again in a day or two, rather than a week or so.

-Fusilier