[Star Wars d20] A Question about Force Skills...

[TaintedLight]

I have been reading through the core rulebook after acquiring it recently, and I have to say that the game looks really good. Nothing looks grossly imbalanced (other than that Jedi Guardian appears to be the undisputed king of all things combat). One thing that confuses me, though, is the Fear force skill. On page 87, the skill is described this way:

Check: A fear check provides a Force penalty to a target's skill checks and attack rolls. The result of the Fear check determines the target's penalty. The target can negate the penalty by accepting a Dark Side Point.

{TABLE="head"]Result|Penalty
10-14|-2
15-19|-4
20-24|-6
25-29|-8
30+|-10
[/TABLE]

Special: You can take 10 when making a Fear check, but you can't take 20.
Using this skill gives the character a Dark Side Point.
Multiple uses of this skill against the same target are not cumulative.
A character with the Malevolent feat gets a +2 aptitude bonus on Fear checks.
Time: Fear is an attack action.
Vitality Point Cost: 2

I don't understand how long this penalty lasts. There is no listed duration here, and the paragraph on Force skills earlier in the same chapter says "a Force skill's effect is immediate unless the description states otherwise."

Does this mean that the target just takes a -X penalty to rolls henceforth? They can accept a Dark Side Point at the time of the Fear check to negate the penalty? If the first case is true, can they accept the point at some later time to end the (apparently indefinite) effect? Does the penalty apply only to the next roll the target makes?

Unrelated: Can anyone tell me how to use the table tags :P?

[Optimystik]

But does it lead to anger, hate and suffering?

{TABLE="head"]*|A|B|C
1|A1|B1|C1
2|A2|B2|C2
3|A3|B3|C3[/TABLE]

[TaintedLight]

d'oh...

Well, at least I know how to use tables now :D.

[TaintedLight]

Does nobody know the answer to my original question ?

[Battleship789]

First off, I'd suggest switching over to Saga edition, if possible. It is a better system overall, I feel, and a lot more balanced.

I don't understand how long this penalty lasts. There is no listed duration here, and the paragraph on Force skills earlier in the same chapter says "a Force skill's effect is immediate unless the description states otherwise."

Does this mean that the target just takes a -X penalty to rolls henceforth? They can accept a Dark Side Point at the time of the Fear check to negate the penalty? If the first case is true, can they accept the point at some later time to end the (apparently indefinite) effect? Does the penalty apply only to the next roll the target makes?

Since I couldn't find anything on Fear in the errata, and I'm to lazy to go scout out all 100 or so Jedi Counseling columns I pulled out my own copy of it. After pulling out my copy of the text (I assume you have the Revised Core Rulebook), I'd give it a 10 round duration (1 minute), as this it seems to be the default time for a force skill to last (compare to Battlemind, Enhance Ability/Senses, Force Defense, etc.) I'm not too sure about your question on the DSP. Personally, I'd only allow it at the time of the Fear check, since it needs to be a spur of the moment decision to accept the dark side, not after feeling the effects of the skill.

Though I do like this version (it was the first RPG I played), it is very unbalanced. Jedi are almost impossible to beat by anything other than another Jedi, critical hits=insta-death (though realistic, it destroys characters very quickly, even at high levels), Force skills (like Fear) are imbalanced since the penalties can stack and there aren't any saves to resist, other Force skills allow a melee Jedi to destroy any other class (Enhance Ability + Battlemind with the right feats can be both activated in the same round, adding a ridiculous bonus to attacks) with 2d8+ridiculousd8 with a minimum of a 19-20 crit lightsaber damage.

A quick example of the Fear skill (at minimum level 7, with a Wis 15 (based off of the Force Mastery feat) the Fear check is at +12)
Standard Fear check as an attack action (average result 22, -6 penalty)
Force Mastery a Fear check to use it a a free action (average result 22, -6 penalty)
Total Vitality points used: 6= 2 (Fear) + 2x2 (Force Mastery Fear)

In one round (where you still have a move action (throw in a Move Object or Battlemind check)), you have given your opponent a -12 penalty on his/her attacks and skill checks, unless they take 2 DSP, rendering them virtually impotent. It is very easy to increase the Fear check as well (just having a DSP score of 1/2 Wis gives a +2 bonus). And this is without splatbooks!

Recap: Get Saga if possible. It's more balance IMHO.

[Foryn Gilnith]

I didn't come in until Saga, and the only (minimal) research I've done on this topic is from d6. Sorry.

[HamHam]

A quick example of the Fear skill (at minimum level 7, with a Wis 15 (based off of the Force Mastery feat) the Fear check is at +12)
Standard Fear check as an attack action (average result 22, -6 penalty)
Force Mastery a Fear check to use it a a free action (average result 22, -6 penalty)
Total Vitality points used: 6= 2 (Fear) + 2x2 (Force Mastery Fear)

It explicitly states that multiple uses don't stack. You can take 10 though.

Anyway, my book has 10 rounds written in as the duration (I got the book second-hand). I assume this is official errata, it at least sounds about right.

But yeah, you should switch to SAGA.

[Battleship789]

It explicitly states that multiple uses don't stack. You can take 10 though.

Anyway, my book has 10 rounds written in as the duration (I got the book second-hand). I assume this is official errata, it at least sounds about right.

But yeah, you should switch to SAGA.

Whoops. Oh well, just swap one fear out for another cheesy force skill as a free action, debuff if possible.

[HamHam]

Why bother with any of that. Just use Move Object and toss marbles at them to daze-lock someone with no save. If you can do that as a free action, you can then shoot or slice them up while you do this.

[TaintedLight]

I do see how that could get silly pretty quickly...

Anyhoo, if I did switch to Saga edition, how much of the game changes and which other books are still compatible with the Saga system?

[HamHam]

I do see how that could get silly pretty quickly...

Anyhoo, if I did switch to Saga edition, how much of the game changes and which other books are still compatible with the Saga system?

Mechanically? None of them, pretty much.

On the other hand, making custom stuff in SAGA is pretty easy so converting an idea from an older book to SAGA should be simple enough.

[TaintedLight]

Alright then, thanks for the tip .