1d2 Crusader Improvement Idea!

[Samuel Sturm]

Take the 1d2 crusader.
Instead of using a 1d2 weapon, which doesn't really work if the rules are read "right", use a 1d1 weapon.

A blowgun from complete warrior has a 1d3 damage die. But, make it tiny, and it deals 1d1 damage. Now, the die itself will roll maximum damage every time. Therefore, Infinite damage!

Does it work? Or am I just dreaming?

[term1nally s1ck]

Unfortunately, the rules drop it to just '1' damage, not 1d1, so no die is rolled....sorry.

[erikun]

Shrinking a 1d2 weapon reduces it to 1 damage, not 1d1. No infinite damage from that route, as you're not even rolling anymore.

[ex cathedra]

Indeed, this is clearly stated on the weapon damage sizing charts. Nice try, though.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

How does the 1d2 not work? Are you referring to the fact that you don't actually roll a 2? Because "treat the result as a 2" is rolling a 2.

[erikun]

How does the 1d2 not work? Are you referring to the fact that you don't actually roll a 2? Because "treat the result as a 2" is rolling a 2.

It works by combining a "reroll 1's" ability with a "if you roll max damage on a die, roll again and add together." Because you always reroll 1's and always add another die when rolling 2's, any successful attack roll deals infinite damage.

Blade 7 was trying to bypass the "reroll 1's" requirement, as a 1d1 die will always roll maximum damage on a die.

[Samuel Sturm]

Aha well. <le sigh...>

[Riffington]

Rolling an infinite number of dice is a bad idea, btw... tends to slow down gameplay.

[mikeejimbo]

Ask your DM to let you take average, I guess?

[Gralamin]

Rolling an infinite number of dice is a bad idea, btw... tends to slow down gameplay.

I don't know. If I roll 1,000,000 dice per a second with a computer, having it use BigNums and text files as storage locations, we might finish rolling in never.

[sofawall]

Ask your DM to let you take average, I guess?

This comment makes me chuckle.

[Vorpal Soda]

I'm trying to imagine how a character doing decent damage with a greatsword could start turning people into purée with a single blow from a tiny dagger.

It's an odd mental image.

[Sliver]

Wouldn't having a large penalty to damage (say damage roll is 1d4-3) will result in always getting your max of 1 damage?

[kamikasei]

Wouldn't having a large penalty to damage (say damage roll is 1d4-3) will result in always getting your max of 1 damage?

But you wouldn't be rolling your maximum on the die.

[Killer Angel]

Blade 7 was trying to bypass the "reroll 1's" requirement, as a 1d1 die will always roll maximum damage on a die.

So, instead of having an infinite damage loop, we have an infinite damage loop, but with a slightly minor effort (if only the weapon size chart allowed it)?

[RebelRogue]

If a player ever actually came to a game of mine with a d2 crusader, I'd ask him to roll that d2 until he was satisfied with the result. Every. Damn. Time.

[Sliver]

If a player ever actually came to a game of mine with a d2 crusader, I'd ask him to roll that d2 until he was satisfied with the result. Every. Damn. Time.

You would ask him to roll handfulls of coins? Some players won't care to do so, especially since they didn't care about actually making it in the first place, so you will only slow down the game and piss off other players that you allowed it and ruled in such a matter to hurt the game.

[Vorpal Soda]

If a player ever actually came to a game of mine with a d2 crusader, I'd ask him to roll that d2 until he was satisfied with the result. Every. Damn. Time.

Do the rules actually allow you to stop rolling?

[Green Bean]

You would ask him to roll handfulls of coins? Some players won't care to do so, especially since they didn't care about actually making it in the first place, so you will only slow down the game and piss off other players that you allowed it and ruled in such a matter to hurt the game.

The DM will hurt the game? As opposed to the guy who brought an infinite damage build to the table?

[Sliver]

The DM will hurt the game? As opposed to the guy who brought an infinite damage build to the table?

If the guy brought the character and the DM approved with this ruling then yes, as the DM is responsible for what he allows in his game and the ruling he makes, and as such, is responsible for the delay caused by such actions and the annoyance it caused at the table.

[RebelRogue]

You would ask him to roll handfulls of coins? Some players won't care to do so, especially since they didn't care about actually making it in the first place, so you will only slow down the game and piss off other players that you allowed it and ruled in such a matter to hurt the game.

He would of course have to roll one die (or flip a coin) at a time. After all, you don't know in advance whether it will be a max or not

In all seriousness: no, I would of course not allow it as a DM. But if it somehow slipped past me, I'd surely make a player do all that rolling untill his co-players got pissed at him!

[Samuel Sturm]

Theoretical optimization is never something you want to actually bring to the table.
Pun-Pun, Chuck E. Cheese, and Superboy will ruin a game very quickly, and may cost you some friends while you're at it. But it is fun to mess with the system, and get a good laugh at WOTC every now and then.

[kamikasei]

Superboy

Haven't heard of this one, and it's not amenable to Googling - what is it, may I ask?

[Wings of Peace]

If the guy brought the character and the DM approved with this ruling then yes, as the DM is responsible for what he allows in his game and the ruling he makes, and as such, is responsible for the delay caused by such actions and the annoyance it caused at the table.

To be fair in the instance of a player bringing an infinite damage Crusader I am fairly certain the initial question asked will not usually be "Can I bring my infinite damage Crusader" but rather "I made a Crusader from Tome of Battle is that cool?"

[Samuel Sturm]

Haven't heard of this one, and it's not amenable to Googling - what is it, may I ask?

Superboy is what the WOTC CO boards called the 1d2 crusader build.

[ex cathedra]

Theoretical optimization is never something you want to actually bring to the table.
Pun-Pun, Chuck E. Cheese, and Superboy will ruin a game very quickly, and may cost you some friends while you're at it. But it is fun to mess with the system, and get a good laugh at WOTC every now and then.

Chuck, actually, isn't that dangerous in normal play. If memory serves, he doesn't come together until near epic levels.

[Emmerask]

If the guy brought the character and the DM approved with this ruling then yes, as the DM is responsible for what he allows in his game and the ruling he makes, and as such, is responsible for the delay caused by such actions and the annoyance it caused at the table.

Because EVERY dm can instantly calculate EVERY implication with EVERY build
Of course the player that brought the class to the table is responsible not the dm...

[Sliver]

To be fair in the instance of a player bringing an infinite damage Crusader I am fairly certain the initial question asked will not usually be "Can I bring my infinite damage Crusader" but rather "I made a Crusader from Tome of Battle is that cool?"

And even if you don't check the sheet or miss the trick, as soon as tries to blow up monsters with a fork you say that this is not TO here. Not tell him "alright, flip a coin. Another one.. Again.." Until everybody else are pissed. If someone brings up TO characters to the game, most chances he won't care if everybody gets pissed at him. You should have other things more important then proving the player "his" character has no place here, like, running a game for the rest of the players.

[kamikasei]

Superboy is what the WOTC CO boards called the 1d2 crusader build.

Ah, I see. Don't remember ever seeing the reference.

[Boci]

Because EVERY dm can instantly calculate EVERY implication with EVERY build
Of course the player that brought the class to the table is responsible not the dm...

Not really. I was rolled up a duskblade who channeled empowered vampire touch via arcane thesis. The DM told me after my first full attack that it was too powerful. He could have saved both of us a lot of time if he'd bothered to check my feats and made a logical conclusion as to which spell I was going to chanel based of that.