Stats for running through glass?

[Egiam]

I plan to have an NPC leap through a window from the second level of an inn. Do any of you know where I could find rules for this? Or can you suggest a homebrew interpretation?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

I'd say the glass on the ground counts as Caltrops, with a Ref save DC 15 to avoid damage for jumping through the window itself(10 points, piercing and slashing). It's simple and effective.

Or you can ignore it utterly, that works as well.

[ericgrau]

So if a commoner jumps through a glass window, he dies? That's far stronger than being burned or having a vial of acid dumped over you.

I'd peg it at 1 or 2 points of piercing/slashing damage and call it a day. He might lose 5 feet of movement for the energy required to break the glass, or it might be negligible. Unless he's jumping exactly 30 feet that doesn't make a difference anyway.

In general you wanna improv such stuff rather than spending so much time on it. DM's have a tendency to go way overboard on DCs and damage because they use heroes (PCs) as a baseline rather than commoners like us. Just make up some minor effect or easy check (assuming success isn't so trivial you don't need to roll) and move the story on.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

So if a commoner jumps through a glass window, he dies? That's far stronger than being burned or having a vial of acid dumped over you.

True. Perhaps *4 if they nat 1. It needs to be able to slash a wrist or neck, even if that's rare.

[ericgrau]

Necks are tough. It normally takes a good sharp knife to cut one. I doubt glass will do much if anything.

Broken glass is more like a thousand papercuts:

(slammed into broken glass)

I can verify the random googled image as I've cleaned up broken glass before. They don't make windows out of razors. 1 or 2 HP is generous. Again, in most odd situations just improv a trivial effect or challenge and move on with the game. Heroes should not need extreme training to handle the common annoyances of you and I. Or if it's a commoner he at the very least should not die from such.

EDIT: One more example. Guy actually tries to slit his wrist on purpose with a fresh shard of glass and fails: http://www.sixthseal.com/2006/08/

[PhoenixRivers]

Dungeonscape has hardness and break DC for glass. Otherwise, just use the breaking objects in the SRD.

[charl]

Also medieval glass was generally a lot thicker and clunkier than more modern glass. It wouldn't have shattered into as many small, sharp pieces. 1d2 slashing damage at most (and even then you should get a reflex save at maybe DC 15 to avoid it all together), then counting as caltrops seems fair. I would also make it a DC 12 or so Strength check to break through the glass in the first place. It's not as easy as it looks.

[PhoenixRivers]

This is high fantasy, people.

The half orc barbarian can't dislocate his shoulder ramming the oak door.

Don't cut people when they shatter glass. At best, treat the ground outside as caltrops.

[Sir_Elderberry]

I'm with the people who say that Rule of Cool justifies no damage.

Now, he's on the second floor, so the Rule of Gravity (...well, really, impulse and momentum) has other ideas.

[Sinfire Titan]

For anyone at 1st level, defenstration should be dangerous, possibly lethal. Anyone above 2nd? Not so much.


IRL, punching through glass can seriously injure you. Jumping through it? Ususally fatal. Hollywood uses stunt glass for this reason, which is made from sugar and designed to shatter into millions of harmless shards the size of a pea.

[holywhippet]

Glass shouldn't be treated as trivial to smash through. Window glass is designed to be able to handle high speed winds and rain driven by high speed winds.

I'd be tempted to calculate ease of breakage using a combination of movement speed (for the runup), weight (of character and items), armour (plate will punch through glass better than leather) and strength (for that last bit of impact).

A lot modern glass will bead when shattered but old fashioned glass is a lot more jagged. I'd made several attacks vs AC to see if it hits an exposed bit of flesh.

[Radiun]

I'd say base damage 5 minus 1 for each point of AC that is not derived from dexterity of dodge bonuses. Kinda like Wall of Thorns

[PhoenixRivers]

For anyone at 1st level, defenstration should be dangerous, possibly lethal. Anyone above 2nd? Not so much.


IRL, punching through glass can seriously injure you. Jumping through it? Ususally fatal. Hollywood uses stunt glass for this reason, which is made from sugar and designed to shatter into millions of harmless shards the size of a pea.

Why is that? Because in Rule of Cool, people jump through windows and make it fine. It's only when windows fall on people that it's dangerous. That's because Awesome and IRL don't always match.

Wizards tell the laws of physics to sit down and shut up. Give the swashbuckler his dramatic entrance. (or the Dashing Swordsman, in Elan's case)

[Sinfire Titan]

Why is that? Because in Rule of Cool, people jump through windows and make it fine. It's only when windows fall on people that it's dangerous. That's because Awesome and IRL don't always match.

Wizards tell the laws of physics to sit down and shut up. Give the swashbuckler his dramatic entrance. (or the Dashing Swordsman, in Elan's case)

In Hollywood, yes. They have glass designed to do just that though. In midevil Europe? The odds of surviving such a stunt are low. In Eberron? Maybe. In standard DnD? Not at the low levels, unless good armor is involved. Oddly, chain armor would suffice.

[holywhippet]

Why is that? Because in Rule of Cool, people jump through windows and make it fine. It's only when windows fall on people that it's dangerous. That's because Awesome and IRL don't always match.

I think he means because at level 1 the 1d6 damage per 10 feet could potentially kill you.

[josh13905]

Well according to Mythbusters if you got slammed through a pane of glass, you wouldn't be getting back up. the lacerations would be really bad. Of course only if you talking about going all the way through. But depending on your style of Cinematics it could easily be seen that the Npc would only be scratched.

Oh and by the way hello Egiam, I'm in the tower game w/ you.

[holywhippet]

Well according to Mythbusters if you got slammed through a pane of glass, you wouldn't be getting back up. the lacerations would be really bad. Of course only if you talking about going all the way through. But depending on your style of Cinematics it could easily be seen that the Npc would only be scratched.

Oh and by the way hello Egiam, I'm in the tower game w/ you.

While I won't disagree with Mythbusters' findings, I suspect they weren't testing people wearing old fashioned armour to protect their body.

[Jastermereel]

If a commoner lept through safety glass, they might get the minor lacerations, but anything earlier than a few decades ago would be very dangerous. Safety glass, as subtly hinted at in the name, is designed to be as harmless as it can be by shattering into lots of little rounded pieces. Older glass is thicker and more likely to form large sharp and jagged blades that, with the added momentum, will cut you quite badly. Commoners charging through any decently large piece would certainly be risking their lives.

That said, Rule of Awesome means you should imagine it as old glass and treat it as safety glass. Give'em a slap on the wrist for damage. Running through some with boots shouldn't do much if anything to hinder them - equal to caltrops at the most.

[KillianHawkeye]

Personally, assuming it's pretty heavy glass, the worst I'd give would be a 1d4 in damage. And I'd probably waive that entirely if the guy was wearing medium or heavy armor. So it could be serious to a level 1 character, but to anyone else it's no more than a scratch.

[LibraryOgre]

Glass is hardness 1, 1 HP/inch of thickness. I'd say 2 points, save 15 for half, save 20 for none.

[Hawriel]

What Mark Hall said. Although I would make it hardness 2, and add +2 per inch. Glass is clear rock after all. For broken class hard soled boots negates penalties. sandles and soft shoes give a +2 to any movment checks to avoid damage. movment penalties as caltrops, add to difficulty depending on the amount of glass.

As for hitting things (deppending on size) adding a reflex save vs glass chips and splinters would be reasonable. What do you think would happen if you hit a glass golem with an axe?

I'm wondering if any one here has ever actualy went through a window or glass door? You have a high chance of getting cut, and cut badly. I've known several peaple that have done so. I've smashed my front door. The only reason I wasnt hurt was because I was wearing a levi jacket and pants.

Hollywood uses sugar glass. Any thing els would be dangerous to the actors and stunt men.

[ericgrau]

Mark quoted the RAW stats for glass. D&D "hardness" is really toughness/DR, so it makes sense even though scientifically glass is hard.

I don't doubt that shattered glass is painful, certainly enough for a 4 HP commoner to stop and scream for a doctor as he's covered in cuts. It's the "deadly" notion I'm skeptical about. Or even if it might be, as said it shouldn't be an issue past level 2.

[Yuki Akuma]

Mark quoted the RAW stats for glass. D&D "hardness" is really toughness/DR, so it makes sense even though scientifically glass is hard.

I don't doubt that shattered glass is painful, certainly enough for a 4 HP commoner to stop and scream for a doctor as he's covered in cuts. It's the "deadly" notion I'm skeptical about. Or even if it might be, as said it shouldn't be an issue past level 2.

D&D commoners don't have 4 HP. They have 2. (2.5 really - at level 2 they have 5.)

[Killer Angel]

Nothing serious happens.
Evgentually, if he's doing it without protection (no armor, no shield, not even a blanket to cover the arm and the face), give him one hp and be done with it.

[Thespianus]

I'm wondering if any one here has ever actualy went through a window or glass door? You have a high chance of getting cut, and cut badly. I've known several peaple that have done so. I've smashed my front door. The only reason I wasnt hurt was because I was wearing a levi jacket and pants.

I've got a friend who ran through a double pane of glass in his home. He got cut, but not bad. That said, there's a lot of variation. With bad luck, you could end up hurt real bad, and if you're going through a scandinavian triple pane of glass, you're in trouble, if you get through at all. :)

The windows of yore were often set in lead, so you might not break through at all. Full sized window panes were rare, but always a single pane, so you won't have as many layers of glass to go through.

[BRC]

Mark quoted the RAW stats for glass. D&D "hardness" is really toughness/DR, so it makes sense even though scientifically glass is hard.

I don't doubt that shattered glass is painful, certainly enough for a 4 HP commoner to stop and scream for a doctor as he's covered in cuts. It's the "deadly" notion I'm skeptical about. Or even if it might be, as said it shouldn't be an issue past level 2.

Well remember that even if the commoner has 4hp, he's not going to be killed by 4 damage, he's going to be reduced to negatives, and may bleed out, but it will technically take 14 damage to kill him.

[Jastermereel]

Well remember that even if the commoner has 4hp, he's not going to be killed by 4 damage, he's going to be reduced to negatives, and may bleed out, but it will technically take 14 damage to kill him.

Technically, yes, it would take 14 to kill him outright, but it only takes 5 for him to die if he doesn't stabilize in the next minute. Unconscious after impact sounds dangerous and dead in 60 seconds sounds pretty lethal to me.

[Toliudar]

How about a standard action to "attack" the glass and (assuming you do enough damage to break it), you move through, just like any other material. That way, it slows the NPC down, is consistent with existing rules, doesn't require new rules, and adheres to the rule of cool. Seriously, if I'm jumping out of a second-story window, I'm much more concerned about the "second-story" part of that equation.

[Sliver]

Sounds like a great hook for a character... He was a common man, until one day he ran through glass. He was unconscious, dying to the street, until he heard someone speak to him. After those words of wisdom, he stood up, fully recovered, and decided that he shall be an adventurer. And he always remembered those words.

"It's only a flesh wound!"