Reducing LA

[Edwin]

So, I have a bit of a complex problem here.

Or, at least, to complex for my insomnia stricken brain.

I have to reduce the LA of a 10th level character, with an LA of +2. Now that by itself it simple enough. The problem is that at 6th level, another +1 gets slammed on me.

So how high level will I be if I have 45000 XP, +2 starting LA, and another +1 added at 6th level, if I buy off everything I can as fast as possible.

[erikun]

So you are currently LA +3? Will it be increasing any more?

The rules for LA buyoff depend on what LA you are trying to buy off, so it matters if you're a LA +2, or LA +3, or LA +9. I've actually never heard of an adjusting LA outside of bloodlines.

To answer your question, your LA +3 character would need to buyoff at levels 9, 15, and 18. Assuming no Racial Hit Dice, the cost at level 9 will be 11,000 exp (lv.9 + 3 LA), at level 15 it will be 16,000 exp (lv.15 + 2 LA), and at level 18 it will be 18,000 (lv.18 + 1 LA). Once you hit lv.18, your LA will have dropped to +0.

[Edwin]

So you are currently LA +3? Will it be increasing any more?

The rules for LA buyoff depend on what LA you are trying to buy off, so it matters if you're a LA +2, or LA +3, or LA +9. I've actually never heard of an adjusting LA outside of bloodlines.

To answer your question, your LA +3 character would need to buyoff at levels 9, 15, and 18. Assuming no Racial Hit Dice, the cost at level 9 will be 11,000 exp (lv.9 + 3 LA), at level 15 it will be 16,000 exp (lv.15 + 2 LA), and at level 18 it will be 18,000 (lv.18 + 1 LA). Once you hit lv.18, your LA will have dropped to +0.

No no, he is not LA +3.

He's LA +2, buy off +1 LA, and then add another +1 LA.

That's why I am confused a bit.

[ex cathedra]

45000xp?

Let's see. Level 1 -> 2 will cost you 3000 experience, yes? Excellent. 2 -> 3 will then take 4000, and 4 -> 5 5000. Now, you level from 5 -> 6 with 6000xp, and immediately buy off 1 LA. This costs 7000xp. You then receive what I assume is a +1LA template, raising your LA from +1 to +2 again. You have 20,000xp left. 6->8 costs 15,000xp, which means that you're level 8 with a level adjustment of +2. You're 4kxp away from level 9, which is when you'll be eligible to buy your LA down to a +1 for 10kxp.

[BenTheJester]

Well, I'm not sure about the official rules, but let's say you buy your first point at lvl 6, moments before getting your additionnal LA. This means you're back at 2 LA, requiring another 6 levels before you can buy off.

So the LA would be reduced at levels 6, 12 and 15

[Edwin]

45000xp?

Let's see. Level 1 -> 2 will cost you 3000 experience, yes? Excellent. 2 -> 3 will then take 4000, and 4 -> 5 5000. Now, you level from 5 -> 6 with 6000xp, and immediately buy off 1 LA. This costs 7000xp. You then receive what I assume is a +1LA template, raising your LA from +1 to +2 again. You have 20,000xp left. 6->8 costs 15,000xp, which means that you're level 8 with a level adjustment of +2. You're 4kxp away from level 9, which is when you'll be eligible to buy your LA down to a +1 for 10kxp.

Awesome, thanks.

[Salanmander]

No no, he is not LA +3.

He's LA +2, buy off +1 LA, and then add another +1 LA.

That's why I am confused a bit.

I'm assuming you reduced your LA from +2 to +1 and level 6, and then had it raised back up to +2? (or those happened simultaneously, or whatever)

I'm pretty sure the LA buyoff rules actually don't specify what to do in this situation. However, looking at them closely a general pattern in the levels at which you can buy off one point of level adjustment is revealed, namely:

A character must have had his current LA for a number of levels equal to three times that LA in order to buy off one point.


For example, with starting LA of +3 you can reduce from +3 to +2 at level 9, from +2 to +1 at level 15 (6 levels later), and from +1 to +0 at level 18 (3 levels after that).

Given this, I think the most sane thing to do is to have your character exist for 6 levels as LA +2, buy off one point, get that point back, exist for another 6 levels as LA +2, buy that point off, exist for 3 levels as LA +1, and buy off the final point there. In other words, you would be able to reduce your LA at levels 6,12, and 15.

Note that this is not RAW, it just seems to me to be the most logical extension of the buyoff rules to include an otherwise unspecified situation.

Edit: some ninjas

[Anonymouswizard]

If were going that way, delay the +1 LA until level nine. So you but it off at levels 6, 9, and 12.

Unless you have to gain that LA at 6th level.

[Curmudgeon]

If you want to follow the letter of the rules in Unearthed Arcana (instead of trying to derive some unstated pattern) you can buy off 1 level from a LA+2 character (with no racial hit dice) at class level 6. Then you're a LA+1 character. If you get another +1 LA added thereafter, you're already past the window when you can buy off the first level of LA+2, so you can only buy off 1 more level at class level 9, and you're done. You're stuck with LA+1, but you've reduced your LA by 2. It's not that bad, considering.

Now, if you were clever, you'd have started with LA+1 (probably from race), bought that off at class level 3, and then acquired +2 LA more before class level 6. Then you could buy off those 2 levels at 6 and 9, and at a much cheaper price (19,000 XP total) than if you had started out with LA+3 (45,000 XP to buy that off).

Gotta plan ahead.

[Salanmander]

If you want to follow the letter of the rules in Unearthed Arcana (instead of trying to derive some unstated pattern) you can buy off 1 level from a LA+2 character (with no racial hit dice) at class level 6. Then you're a LA+1 character. If you get another +1 LA added thereafter, you're already past the window when you can buy off the first level of LA+2, so you can only buy off 1 more level at class level 9, and you're done. You're stuck with LA+1, but you've reduced your LA by 2. It's not that bad, considering.

Now, if you were clever, you'd have started with LA+1 (probably from race), bought that off at class level 3, and then acquired +2 LA more before class level 6. Then you could buy off those 2 levels at 6 and 9, and at a much cheaper price (19,000 XP total) than if you had started out with LA+3 (45,000 XP to buy that off).

Gotta plan ahead.

I am unconvinced that there *is* a letter of the rules in this case. UA refers to "starting" level adjustment, and it is unclear how this interacts with a level adjustment that changes. It clearly doesn't base it off your *current* LA, else someone who was LA +3, and bought one off at 9, would already be past the level where they could buy off their first point of a +2 LA.