Is there seriously no 0 LA race with a Cha bonus?

[Talbot]

I've been looking through my books and the Crystal Keep, and it seems like Cha is more or less impossible to come by. Is there some obscure race from a Dragon Mag or something I could use, or am I just SOL?

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Spellscale, from RotD, +2 Cha, -2 Con.
Lesser Aasimar +2 Wis, +2 Cha.

[Yukitsu]

Star elves from unapproachable east as well.

[Eldariel]

Venerable Dragonwrought Desert Kobold: -4 Str, +2 Dex, +3 Int, +1 Wis, +3 Cha. Also, nice chassis for a Sorcerer.

[Talbot]

Venerable Dragonwrought Desert Kobold: -4 Str, +2 Dex, +3 Int, +1 Wis, +3 Cha. Also, nice chassis for a Sorcerer.

That sounds ideal... what are the relevant books I'd need to do it?

[Eldariel]

That sounds ideal... what are the relevant books I'd need to do it?

Races of the Dragon and Races of the Dragon. You may also want to consider Races of the Dragon. Additionally, Races of the Dragon may be useful. Though you'll have to draw upon a rule in Draconomicon IIRC.

But that's really a minor point; the basic crux of it: You're a Dragon as per Dragonwrought [RoTD] feat. Therefore, you gain aging bonuses without taking penalties. In effect, you exchange a feat for slightly better-than-average mental stats.


Oh, and Desert Kobold (and other environmental Kobold-variants) are in the SRD (alongside the original).

[Mando Knight]

Races of the Dragon (for the Dragonwrought template. I believe that it may just be WotC online material as well) and Unearthed Arcana (or d20srd.org, for the "Desert" Environmental Racial Variant)

[Zaq]

People always forget Hellbred, from Fiendish Codex II. They have two flavors; one has +2 CON and -2 INT, and one has +2 CHA and -2 CON. The second flavor, which is relevant to this discussion, also gets increasingly nice darkvision and eventually telepathy. They also get Devil's Favor as a bonus feat, and some minor skill bonuses. They've got fun fluff, too. I like Hellbred.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Magic Blooded (page 15) is a +0 LA template that gives Wis -2, Cha +2. Add it onto any race that already gets a Cha bonus and you're good to go.

[OMG PONIES]

I see your little lizard and raise you a venerable magic-blooded unseelie fey spellscale. -8 STR, -4 DEX, -10 CON, +1 WIS, and +9 CHA. You'll be the best looking corpse in the party.

[Kylarra]

I see your little lizard and raise you a venerable magic-blooded unseelie fey spellscale. -8 STR, -4 DEX, -10 CON, +1 WIS, and +9 CHA. You'll be the best looking corpse in the party.

The solution is clearly to become a necropolitan asap.

[OMG PONIES]

One sexy zombie.

[Kylarra]

One sexy zombie.

Isn't there a feat that gives undead CHA to hp since they have no con?

[Ravens_cry]

One sexy zombie.

Well, with a ring-o-gentle repose. . .

[The Glyphstone]

Isn't there a feat that gives undead CHA to hp since they have no con?

Unfortunately no. It's a special trait given to select undead, almost all printed post MM3.

[BenTheJester]

Isn't there a feat that gives undead CHA to hp since they have no con?

Dry Liches get that, I doubt it comes in feat form

[Kylarra]

Unfortunately no. It's a special trait given to select undead, almost all printed post MM3.

Sadness, I guess our hypothetical undead will need to become a dry lich then!

[SaintRidley]

Sadness, I guess our hypothetical undead will need to become a dry lich then!

And make it , what is it, 13 levels with minimal Con.

[Mystic Muse]

they only get a -1 assuming they roll an 18. of course when you have d4 hit dice.

[Kylarra]

And make it , what is it, 13 levels with minimal Con.

Yeah well, no one said it would be easy.

[Boci]

they only get a -1 assuming they roll an 18. of course when you have d4 hit dice.

Hence the necropolitant template to turn that into d12+0.

[Myrmex]

The solution is clearly to become a necropolitan asap.

Unfortunately, only humanoids can undergo the transformation into a necropolitan.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

No no no, you take the Frail flaw. You'll have 1 HP at level 1, and get 0 HP at every level after that. If you ever hit level 20, you'll still have only 1 HP. The only thing I can think of that could reasonably survive with that would be a Psion with the Vigor/Shared Pain Psicrystal trick, which could actually work out quite well.

[mikeejimbo]

No no no, you take the Frail flaw. You'll have 1 HP at level 1, and get 0 HP at every level after that. If you ever hit level 20, you'll still have only 1 HP. The only thing I can think of that could reasonably survive with that would be a Psion with the Vigor/Shared Pain Psicrystal trick, which could actually work out quite well.

It's like the 55 HP monk from Guild Wars!

[ericgrau]

Being old gives a +2 to all mental stats and -3 to all physical. Venerable a +3 to mental and -6 to physical. It's not just for dragonwrought kobolds.

[Devils_Advocate]

But... but... then your disadvantage will effect you! It defeats the purpose of extreme min-maxing optimization!

[Gametime]

But... but... then your disadvantage will effect you! It defeats the purpose of extreme min-maxing optimization!

While most min-maxing casters would gladly accept a -6 penalty to a physical stat in exchange for a +3 to a mental one, very few would accept a -6 penalty to the stats that govern initiative AND hit points. It's more like max-mining, at that point; you've gone so overboard at optimizing a single aspect of your character that you've rendered him weaker than he would've been if you'd left well enough alone.

(Also, your disadvantage effecting you would be quite a sight indeed. More common is a disadvantage affecting you.)

[Sstoopidtallkid]

While most min-maxing casters would gladly accept a -6 penalty to a physical stat in exchange for a +3 to a mental one, very few would accept a -6 penalty to the stats that govern initiative AND hit points. It's more like max-mining, at that point; you've gone so overboard at optimizing a single aspect of your character that you've rendered him weaker than he would've been if you'd left well enough alone.

I've seen a couple builds that can handle it. Druids, either Casting or AC-focused, can often survive simply by flying around as a bird rather than being a Bear. Elf Wizards can do it too, through a combination of Faerie Mysteries Initiate, Nerveskitter, and a hummingbird.

(Also, your disadvantage effecting you would be quite a sight indeed. More common is a disadvantage affecting you.)

I've made characters based around a disadvantage before. Oftimes, mechanically subpar feats, spells, or classes get my juices flowing.

[Brother Oni]

I've made characters based around a disadvantage before. Oftimes, mechanically subpar feats, spells, or classes get my juices flowing.

That wooshing sound you hear is the difference between effect and affect flying over your head.

Affect

Effect

[Signmaker]

That wooshing sound you hear is the difference between effect and affect flying over your head.

Affect

Effect

Must...resist...urge...to...xkcd...

Spoiler

Show

I failed.