Results 1 to 14 of 14
Thread: [4e] Vertical Distances
-
2009-12-01, 10:44 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Location
- San Antonio, Texas
- Gender
[4e] Vertical Distances
So, last night we had a fight on what I called "the risers". 5'-10' (saw-toothed), then a 10' rise, then a 15' flat space, then another 10' rise to a 5' section. To an extent, this worked to my advantage... I was behind an abutment for most of the fight, and so the artillery up top couldn't really see me. However, this also lead to some odd distance computations.
How do y'all handle vertical spaces in game?The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
*Mutant Dawn for Savage Worlds!
*The One Deck Engine: Gaming on a budget
Written by Me on DriveThru RPG
There are almost 400,000 threads on this site. If you need me to address a thread as a moderator, include a link.
-
2009-12-01, 10:48 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: [4e] Vertical Distances
Usually, we either don't, or we treat them as difficult terrain and that's that.
I suppose that 3D distance would work the same as 2D, in that a diagonal move requires exactly as many "steps" as an orthagonal one. In that, it would be easy to get a minor cover bonus, and you may be able to get full cover by dropping prone (although that's more of a desperation move).Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
-
2009-12-01, 11:03 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
- Gender
Re: [4e] Vertical Distances
We count it like any other 2D ground (5 feet = 1 square move). Altough, like Kurald said, i ofthen rule some square as diffcult terrain (like the saw-toothed).
In the same line of ideas, is there a RAW rule that explain area effect and 3D battle?
I dont remember reading it anywhere, but i assumed a area effect is 3D. So a Area burst 1 is 3 X 3 X 3 box.
-
2009-12-01, 11:06 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: [4e] Vertical Distances
I was just about slapped for suggesting we bring trigonometry into things.
Thanks to zegma for my awesome avatar.
Proudly the founder of the Mr. Scruffy fanclub.
We will not let Nessie down! http://www.petitiononline.com/PLEAOSAR/
My DMs' Guild Stuff
-
2009-12-01, 11:14 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: [4e] Vertical Distances
Most players and DMs I've spoken to on this matter assume so, but I don't believe it's anywhere in the rulebooks. For some powers it makes sense to be three-dimensional, but for others it really doesn't.
It does give rise to further questions, though. Are humanoids supposed to be 1x1x1 square, or are they two squares tall? Does this figure change if you drop prone? Can you conjure e.g. a stinking cloud a few feet up in the air so that it only affects large creatures (i.e. enemies only)? Can you use a "pull" effect to get a flying creature down? And so forth. I'm afraid the rules weren't really written with 3D in mind, and support for 3D varies wildly between different sections in the rulebooks.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
-
2009-12-01, 11:32 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- May 2007
Re: [4e] Vertical Distances
I'm personally torn between the boxes being taller than 5 foot, or having medium and above creatures smudge over into the next layer.
But generally, I'd not tie it down so as to avoid giving my players the temptation to try things like the stinking cloud thing.
-
2009-12-01, 12:32 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2009
- Location
- Austin TX
- Gender
Re: [4e] Vertical Distances
Medium creatures take up 2 squares vertically. Small = 1. Bursts and blasts are cubes. Large = 3 vertically. Huge = 4 or 5, Gargantuan = 6. Beasts are 1 square shorter (except for small beasts).
I had a room where gravity was towards all wall and the ceiling in addition to the floor recently. That was fun.Avatar by me. It's Incendius Darkscale, a Good Dragonborn Dragon Sorcerer, Demonskin Adept, Prince of Hell, worshiper of the Platinum Dragon (Bahamut), specializing in Fire and Lightning, wielding a staff in each hand.
-
2009-12-01, 06:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
-
2009-12-01, 07:15 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: [4e] Vertical Distances
Yes. The problem is that if you start with an implication and take logical conclusions from there, bearing in mind that "common sense isn't", you'll end up with numerous vagaries and contradictions, as well as some things that feel like they can't be intended by the designers and simply aren't balanced.
For instance, stinking cloud is one of the best level-5 powers in the game. Stinking cloud that hits only enemies isn't balanced. Or, to put it differently, implied rules aren't RAW.
Looking through the rulebooks from that perspective, it is clear that the designers simply haven't thought this through, and that most mentions of 3D are added as an afterthought at best. The fact that both the devteam and custserv explicitly refuse to answer questions on this particular matter further underlines that.Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
-
2009-12-01, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2007
- Location
- Out of my mind.
- Gender
Re: [4e] Vertical Distances
My group treats blasts and bursts as nxnxn-square cubes, with Medium and Small creatures taking up 1x1x1-square (5x5x5-foot) cubes and anything bigger being as many "squares" tall as it is wide and long. We do upwards (non-flying) movement as difficult terrain (usually paired with Athletics (Climb) checks), or use Athletics (Jump) checks to get the needed height.
The one time that the latter option came up, we were fighting a blue dragon that was attacking us in a two-square-deep ravine, keeping two squares between itself and the top of the ravine as it did so. Then our DM ruled that you could attack mid-jump (and jump mid-charge), prompting my barbarian to do exactly that ... while spamming knock-prone powers. Fun times.
-
2009-12-01, 09:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
-
2009-12-01, 10:30 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
Re: [4e] Vertical Distances
Well, assuming the stinking cloud wouldn't just descend to the ground (which is how I would rule it), the abuse comes in that you can cast the cloud one square up and have your party duck. It gets anything above small size while your whole party is safe. It goes from "Target: all in burst" to "Target: anyone stupid enough not to duck".
-
2009-12-02, 03:49 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
Re: [4e] Vertical Distances
You go into battle with large creatures (which is common starting high paragon levels) then cast it one or two squares above the ground, depending on how many squares tall humans are.
This means it goes from "target: all in zone" to "target: all enemies in zone". By RAW, the enemies can't even drop prone to avoid this - but if the DM allows that, then the spell just went from "1d10+int automatic damage" to "1d10+int damage + automatic prone".
RAW says that conjurations don't need ground to support. This probably means you can cast them at ground level over a pit or lake, but is often interpreted as that you can cast them up in the air. Having them descend to the floor is a good solution; after all, WOTC aren't idiots and are perfectly aware of the difference between a "square" and a "cube".Guide to the Magus, the Pathfinder Gish class.
"I would really like to see a game made by Obryn, Kurald Galain, and Knaight from these forums. I'm not joking one bit. I would buy the hell out of that." -- ChubbyRain
Crystal Shard Studios - Freeware games designed by Kurald and others!
-
2009-12-02, 03:54 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2007
- Location
- Texas...for now
- Gender
[/sarcasm]
FAQ is not RAW!Avatar by the incredible CrimsonAngel.
Saph:It's surprising how many problems can be solved by one druid spell combined with enough aggression.
I play primarily 3.5 D&D. Most of my advice will be based off of this. If my advice doesn't apply, specify a version in your post.