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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    alchemyprime's Avatar

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    Default Prime20: Bard is here! [d20] [Prime20] [WIP]

    Yes, as the tag will indicate, I too am working on a d20 variant. I'm on the band wagon. Some of you have been helping me.

    CONTRIBUTORS
    • Gwyn Chan 'r Gwll
    • Moosefisher
    • Draken
    • Shmee
    • Tialait
    • AnonymousWizard, with the same mindset that makes A20 fun!
    • Apalala
    • Obviously, Alchemyprime
    • Others!


    Now, if Prime20 just isn't doing it for you, you have options. You can also check out
    d20r (who's sorceror became the basis for our Seed system, and I will continue to leech off of for the rest of time, dang it!),
    A20WAR made by our own contributor, AnonymousWizard,
    Frog20 (someone find me a link for this, please?),
    H20 or
    Green Ronin's True20 for those who want a simplified 3.5 experience, or
    Paizo's Pathfinder (which was much of Prime20's inspiration) or
    Ultimate D&D (which Prime20 branched off of, and I myself contributed to on the Scourge class). You have options, folks.

    THE ORIGINAL POST
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    I've noticed the mentalities behind the others here too:

    H20: Seems to be based around a concept similar to True20. I can't read Italian well, so this is mostly hearsay (not heresy I hope).

    Frog20: Low magic. Not my style.

    d20 Rebirth: I... have taken some of Fax's work I will admit. Fax's sorcerer fit my wizard's Research mechanic, warlock's Channel mechanic and sorcerer's Improvise mechanic very well. I love what Fax did here, and so I will admit, this one is one I'd play, though it is also no my style.

    A20: AnonymousWizard's variant. High Magic, low item. Fun. I like the idea. But still not what I aim for.


    So I thought, what do I want in Prime20 (originally called d20 Alchemy, I may switch it back).

    • I want classes that I can build
    • I want classes that definitely fit a niche (skillmonkey assassin Rogues, pure power fighters, paladins are warriors of a cause, etc.)
    • I want to follow Rule of Cool. If something is awesome, its in. A neutral paladin of nature, making his smites out of freezing ice and burning fire and stinging acid? Awesome! Good paladins with a smite that buffs all their allies? AWESOME!)
    • I wanted classes that felt awesome. Priests are conduits of the deities, Occultists covincing people they are gods, martial artist Drizzt/Aragorn rangers, wizards making up new spells.)
    • I wanted my race to stay important. Dwarves that as they level get DR/adamantine, elves that get bonuses to initiative and AC, halflings that get even better at acrobatics and having sticky fingers, humans that do a bit of everything)
    • I wanted skills that were easier to manage. A smaller, more condenced list, and skills that advance at a "Half or All" rule. You're ADVENTURERS! You know stuff!
    • More feats. With fighters getting more talents and less feats, I wanted even more feats. Nonhumans starting with 3 feats? Sounds fun to me.
    • I wanted you to be able to bring your background into a bit. A city elf, a wood elf and a high elf should all be a little different. I give you Major and Minor traits! Major (stolen from Iron Heroes) and Minor (from Unearthed Arcana) to modify your player further.
    • More dakka! MORE DAKKA I SAY!
    • I like guns. I really like guns. So I decided "Let's have guns."
    • I wanted people to have more goodies, more options (well, not too much the casters. Mainly the non casters). Give paladins Auras and spellcasting like a bard. Give fighters talent trees and feats. Give rogues paths to follow as rogues! You can be a rogue and NEVER LEARN TO SNEAK ATTACK! You can be a barbarian that NEVER RAGES! It's fun! You can, of course, still do the old ways...
    • Somehow, I gave druids more options and lowered their power. I have no idea how I did that...
    • I figured there are some classes that can be combined: Soulborn, you're a Paladin build now. Dragonfire Adept, you're now Draconic Warlock.
    • I freaking hate dual casting PrCs. I just decided to make dual casting core classes. Warlord, Paladin, Occultist, welcome to the dual casting club.
    • I liked some of 4e's ideas. So I implemented them after a fashion (Healing Surges replaced with Reserve Points, at will cantrips and eventually 1sts, rechargeable 2nds through 4ths after you get high enough level, epic spellcasting based on metamagic ffeats and researching spells built into classes)
    • Most of all, I wanted a system where building my character was almost as fun as playing him. Where I kept having options to exploit. Where, by pure calculation of options, I can tell that I have over a few bajillion ways to build a sorcerer before I pick spells.


    Those were my design tennants. I set out to fill them. And when peopl easked why, like how this fixed D&D 3.5, I answered
    "It doesn't."
    When asked "Why then?" my only answer would be
    "Because it's awesome."

    And that's my mentality. I like it. And so I want to know: Who wants to help me reinvent the car without reinventing the wheel? Who wants to make d20 with more dakka? MORE DAKKA?

    The sort of game where your party at 1st level can be Captain America, Kenshin Himura, Vash the Stampede, Freddie Mercury, and Wanda Maximoff, and it's EXACTLY WHAT'S TO BE EXPECTED AT 1st.

    Geez... Maybe I should just call this Exalted d20 and be over with it.

    Still, just some fun thoughts. Wanted to know what people thought, and what this sort of proposal makes people feel. Who would be excited to jump on this bandwagon (I'll share with those who wanna help before I share around.)



    So why are we here? (I'm assuming you jumped the spoiler) Simple. We want to make a d20 variant that is... how do I put this...

    We want more dakka.

    MORE DAKKA!

    Rule of Cool must reign supreme! You guys are HEROES! Why do we need REALISM? We need EPIC INSIDE as early as 1st level! Wizards making new spells, fighters doing things through sheer badassery (which from this point forward will not only be a feat tree, but a noun), rogues being everything they are on TV (except life draining hotties. Unless you're into that, which I suppose they can be), bards being less spoony, more "Freddie Mercury meets the Music Meister meets Spike Spiegel meets the Doctor".

    This is the Highest Powered Variant we have. High magic, high power, high magic item (or at least standard WBL). Fighter not being "the meat shield" but being the guy who's pulling off techniques that make Mortal Kombat characters look upon in awe. WITHOUT MARTIAL MANEUVERS! (Rangers, Warlords, Bards and Paladins get THOSE...).

    This is Prime20. Our idea: Rule 0 and Rule of Cool should be ONE AND THE SAME!

    This is the sort of game where your first level conjurer's theme song is "Awaken MustaKrakish" by Dethklok, where your rogue is already more ninja than a ninja, where memes are built into class features.

    No. Seriously. We've come to the conclusion that bards need an ability to play people off. It either involves a vaudeville piano or a cat.

    This is not the system for "gritty realism". This is the system where Tengan Toppa Gurren Langan weilding the Goldion Crusher from Gao Gai Gar would be considered UNDERPOWERED. Where the Tarrasque can make Nyalthotep IMPLODE and a 1st level party makes The King In Yellow WET HIMSELF. Where commoners say "Candlejack" and FINISH THEIR DAMN POSTS!!! Where DMs use HYPERBOLE!

    Welcome, to Prime20.

    CLASS LIST
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    Barbarian:
    Draft 1 IN BROWSER FOR DOWNLOAD
    Bard: IN BROWSER
    Battle Medic: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 0)
    Cleric:
    IN BROWSERFOR DOWNLOAD
    Druid:
    IN BROWSER FOR DOWNLOAD
    Fighter: Draft 1
    IN BROWSER FOR DOWNLOAD
    Draft 2 In Browser For Download
    Monk: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 1)
    Occultist: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 1)
    Paladin: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 2)
    Ranger: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 2)
    Rogue: Draft 1
    IN BROWSERFOR DOWNLOAD
    Sorcerer: Draft 1
    IN BROWSER FOR DOWNLOAD
    Warlock: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 1)
    Warlord: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 1)
    Wizard: Coming Soon (Votes so far: 3)

    Others: ... Wait til I got those done, bub.


    RACES
    IN BROWSER
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    Kobolds! Hooray!

    RACIAL ADVANCEMENT
    IN BROWSERFOR DOWNLOAD

    VARIANT RULES
    IN BROWSERFOR DOWNLOAD
    Last edited by alchemyprime; 2010-02-04 at 03:23 PM.
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    Thank you very much. you know, I think I like you, Prime. =)
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  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    Welcome to the club! This looks like a decent set of criteria, so how do you intend to fulfil them? Mind if I "adopt" ideas that I like?

    Now, I like the idea of classes being able to follow different paths, I did put it in right after the normal classes, the VARIANT CLASSES. But paths sound good, what I really want to play is a magical rogue who doesn't have to tek levels in arcane trickster.

    Now for a big question:
    Magic: what system do you intend to use. Are you going for the Vancian spell slots, the universal spell points, the hp draining system, skill use, bio-magic? This will be a important choice, and I hope that this turns out well. Who knows, maybe we'll see you on the list of successful 3.75 editions.
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    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    Your little synopsis at the beginning made me think that perhaps someone should collect all of the variant/revamped/etc. systems on the board in one place for easy reference--you know, "If you want X style for homebrew, see homebrew system Y."

    Anyway, your goals look worthwhile, and I fully support the emphasis on Rule of Cool. I'm working on a revamp of my own at the moment, or I'd pitch in and work some things up, but I can of course comment on classes and such that you write up.
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    I really like the idea of adopting the skill trees, and inter-class-customization of 4e into 3.5 (that was pretty much the only aspect I liked about it before I dropped my 4e Players Handbook off at a used bookstore), it seems like you have a very clear image of what you want to accomplish, and I'd like to see where you go with this.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Welcome to the club! This looks like a decent set of criteria, so how do you intend to fulfil them? Mind if I "adopt" ideas that I like?

    Now, I like the idea of classes being able to follow different paths, I did put it in right after the normal classes, the VARIANT CLASSES. But paths sound good, what I really want to play is a magical rogue who doesn't have to tek levels in arcane trickster.

    Now for a big question:
    Magic: what system do you intend to use. Are you going for the Vancian spell slots, the universal spell points, the hp draining system, skill use, bio-magic? This will be a important choice, and I hope that this turns out well. Who knows, maybe we'll see you on the list of successful 3.75 editions.
    I use... a variant of Vancian.

    0 is always At Will. Beyond that its vancian, except that only your three highest spell levels (to a max of 4th) have slots. Below that you have Recharges and (for 1st eventually) At Wills. That's right. When you get 7th level spell slots, your 1sts become WHENEVER YOU DAMN WELL PLEASE!

    "I wanna cast Magic Missile. A thousand times. I'll take a thousand rounds, but that's okay. I can do that."

    As for your "Magical Rogue" idea...
    Rogue Talents allow for magic, as do the Racial Advancements (but with certain schools tied to certain races). So... you play a drow rogue or gnome rogue, expect a lot of spell fun from that.

    Alternatively, you can always multiclass into a casting class, but rogues will get a little magical oomf. If they so choose, of course. They can also easily do whatever they want within rogue.

    I need to finish Warlord, Wizard, Warlock, Occultist and Paladin before I revise the Barbarian, Rogue and Fighter (they need more oomph). Then I will release it as an Alpha PDF.

    I will admit. I didn't do all the work. I took some mechanics from Pathfinder, some from Stanzy's Ultimate D&D, some of Iron Heroes, some Eberron, some my own ideas. This is a system for the guys who bought all the D&D 3.5 books. This is the variant for the guy who goes "Hey, I wanna play a binder and a cleric, but I can't choose." And then they go "Play an Occultist" and they'll be all "YAY!"

    Yes. That's really how we do it.

    Lemme list the classes for you.
    1. Barbarian: The savage. You can be a noble savage, a loud shouty barbarian, a ragebarian, there are quite a few options.
    2. Bard: Draws a bit more on factotum. Gets weapon abilities, perform powers, spells. Think Captain America, Indiana Jones and Freddie Mercury as one character.
    3. Battle Medic: The Healer after growing a beard. Gets a positive energy eldritch blast and can easily fight undead and demons more effectively now.
    4. Cleric: The ward of a god or philosophy. They get more domains over all, but start weaker. Also, all domain and clerical powers use the same pool as Turn Undead.
    5. Druid: Now customizable by environment and aspect of nature!
    6. Fighter: Less feats (1 less), but now with full talent trees, weapon specializations, armor power, and the power to retrain his bonus feats at level up.
    7. Monk: HE ACTUALLY DOES STUFF NOW!
    8. Occultist: A binder/divine caster dual caster. He uses the vestiges to convince people he is a god and make a cult. Think cleric/binder/thrallherd.
    9. Paladin: A warrior of a cause. Choose an order based off of G-N-E, smite modifications on L-N-C, and Boons based on WHATEVER YOU DANG WELL PLEASE. Also, your Source of Power, which you can pick. Wanna cast? Cast. Wanna bind? Bind. Wanna be a martial artist? Do so. Wanna use incarnum? Knock yourself out. Pick one and stick with it. We'll give you Auras for FREE!
    10. Rangers: No longer Druid Light. Now they are essentially bounty hunters, protectors, and have a good amount of Swordsage mixed in. Using some of the Disciplines here on the boards.
    11. Sorcerer: Hey. You know how you have magical blood? IT HAS MECHANICAL BENEFITS NOW. Sorcerers: The Monstrous Arcanist.
    12. Warlock: They make deals for power. They can be themed around Elementals, Fiends, Fey, Celestials, Dragons, or Aberrations.
    13. Warlord: An Aura/Martial Artist class. They work off the principal of "Inspiring" and of "Being Awesome."
    14. Wizard: The Smart Arcanist. The can make their own spells. I REPEAT: RESEARCHING SPELLS HAS MECHANICS NOW. THANK YOU FAX! And they also get bonuses based on their schools (ie. Necromancers are Necromancery, Diviners are Diviney, Frost Mages are Frosty).


    So those are what the classes will look like when they are done.
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    Thank you very much. you know, I think I like you, Prime. =)
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    You, sir, have created the best Pokerman possible. Here is your medal. Everyone else can just give up.

  6. - Top - End - #6
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    Quote Originally Posted by alchemyprime View Post
    I
    Monk: HE ACTUALLY DOES STUFF NOW!
    But, but, but, but, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!! It denies the first law of character creation: avoid the monk. do you want to suck?

    What sort of stuff, run up walls, cast divine spells, cast arcane spells, track, steal, any of the above?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    But, but, but, but, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!!! It denies the first law of character creation: avoid the monk. do you want to suck?

    What sort of stuff, run up walls, cast divine spells, cast arcane spells, track, steal, any of the above?
    Track, run up walls, use ki abilities (similar to vestige powers, but picked at level up), steal, punch through walls, force poisons he's been hit with into his galbladder and force it into a hit in the future. Give himself DR, jumping over other enemies. Very wuxia, anime influenced Monk, without Martial Maneuvers, unlike Rangers, Warlords and some Paladins.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctemwolf View Post
    Thank you very much. you know, I think I like you, Prime. =)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmantra View Post
    You, sir, have created the best Pokerman possible. Here is your medal. Everyone else can just give up.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    Quote Originally Posted by alchemyprime View Post
    Wizard: The Smart Arcanist. The can make their own spells. I REPEAT: RESEARCHING SPELLS HAS MECHANICS NOW. THANK YOU FAX! And they also get bonuses based on their schools (ie. Necromancers are Necromancery, Diviners are Diviney, Frost Mages are Frosty).
    I would like a link to the bolded, if you don't mind.

    Also, if anyone needs to see variant magic systems/spellcasting classes, I have quite a few from my scourings of the Inter- I mean Zendikar, and had to fight life and limb for them so be grateful if you see them at all!! (I'm kidding, you can ask to see them and I'll get them up, though it may take a while as there are a lot of them.)
    Last edited by Dante & Vergil; 2009-12-02 at 02:59 PM.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dante & Vergil View Post
    I would like a link to the bolded, if you don't mind.

    Also, if anyone needs to see variant magic systems/spellcasting classes, I have quite a few from my scourings of the Inter- I mean Zendikar, and had to fight life and limb for them so be grateful if you see them at all!! (I'm kidding, you can ask to see them and I'll get them up, though it may take a while as there are a lot of them.)
    Its actually a modified version of an old version of Fax's Sorcerer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctemwolf View Post
    Thank you very much. you know, I think I like you, Prime. =)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmantra View Post
    You, sir, have created the best Pokerman possible. Here is your medal. Everyone else can just give up.

  10. - Top - End - #10
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    A modified version of the old sorcerer? Was the old sorcerer any different fromt the one Fax has now?

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    ... I dunno... It was only a month and a half ago. Its probably the same one, except I've allotted Slot Costs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctemwolf View Post
    Thank you very much. you know, I think I like you, Prime. =)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmantra View Post
    You, sir, have created the best Pokerman possible. Here is your medal. Everyone else can just give up.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    Currently working on some additions to the Fighter: Talents. Every odd numbered level gives you a bonus feat and a talent. At first you can only learn Least Talents. At 11th level, the Lesser Talents become available and then at 17th, Greater Talents are available.

    These are a work in progress, but hopefully these will give the fighter some much needed oomph.

    Oh, and those even numbered levels? Armor Training, Weapon Tricks, Weapon Training, Art of War abilities and Warcraft abilities are gained then.

    SAY NO TO DEAD LEVELS!

    Well, I give you Fighter Talents. Enjoy.

    Talents (Ex): Talents are abilities fighters figured out from skirmishes and scuffles, not from theory. Talents come in three flavors: Least, Lesser and Greater. A fighter may use each talent as often as the talent says. You can always take a weaker talent for that level. All ability rolls for Talents are 1d20 + Ĺ your Fighter level + the modifier of the relevant ability. The Talent will list the ability score it needs.


    Least Talents:
    Dust Cloud: Once per encounter as a standard action, you may kick up dust to obscure vision. The dust cloud covers a 20ft by 20ft area and lasts for 10 rounds The dust obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature within 5 feet has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker canít use sight to locate the target.*
    Razzle Dazzle: This is an at-will talent. You spend a standard action. Your next melee attack also Dazzles the target for 1 minute. They can attampt a Fortitude Save to negate this. This is an Intelligence based talent.
    Shake it Off: As a standard action, the fighter may reroll any one saving throw for an ongoing effect that he already failed. He may use this ability once per round.
    Sure Shot: Once per encounter, you may use a swift action to make the range for your next ranged attack go out to line of sight. Treat all of your damage dice as if you have rolled a 1 for this attack, but you are granted a +20 to your attack roll.
    Thickened Blood: Once per encounter as a standard action, the fighter grants himself DR 2/bludgeoning for 1 round per level of fighter the character possesses.

    Lesser Talents:
    Plow: At the start of your first turn, you may move yourself adjacent to one foe. The movement is considered and treated as a charge, but with range 3x your movement score and ignoring any difficult terrain or obsticals. You do not provoke attacks of opportunity this round.
    Steelbolt: Once an encounter, spend your swift action. Your next attack is against every enemy withing a 30 ft line of you. For each one you hit, deal your weapon damage. You can use a Duel skill with this talent.

    Greater Talents:
    System Shock (Ex): Once per Encounter, you may choose to attempt to just deal massive damage. You must make a successful touch attack to hit. A miss does not expend a use of this power. Any creature hit takes 2d6 points of damage per character level (to a maximum of 40d6). A creature that makes a successful Fortitude save is partially affected, taking only 5d6 points of damage. The save is Strength based.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctemwolf View Post
    Thank you very much. you know, I think I like you, Prime. =)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmantra View Post
    You, sir, have created the best Pokerman possible. Here is your medal. Everyone else can just give up.

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    UPDATES

    Class progressions:

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    Barbarian: First draft done, but definately need a second draft.

    Bard: I will be turning Bard into another dual caster. Arcane/Martial, Arcane/Psionic or Arcane/Binding will be your options.

    Battle Medic: I really need to increase the power of this guy. He's already a tier 3 class by normal standards, but he needs some more spell options. More healing, maybe a touch of transmutation and summoning. All the non-damaging battle powers (grease, sleep, etc.)

    Cleric: I'm pretty happy with cleric. I say we keep him as is, maybe expand the Clerical Order powers slightly.

    Druid: ... I made him weaker... I brought him down from Tier 1 to Tier 2. Wait... I'm aiming at everyone being tier 2 or 3. This is good.

    Fighter: Working on Second Draft. Fighter Talents are coming along well. I think his second draft will be done within a day or two.

    Monk: Yeah... she's going to need some help. Important steps: give them more stuff to do. Give them even more stuff to do. Find better art than the PHB I had.

    Occultist: Capstone ability is bugging me and I need to make the spell list, but beyond that I like it.

    Paladin: Just need to add in the Sources, and add in more Orders, Boons and Focuses. So I have the outline, I just need to color by number.

    Ranger: Actually, I'm pretty happy here. Second draft may add in a bit more martial adept stuff, but having Ranger be the new Swordsage is something I like.

    Rogue: I want to expand his options and maybe add a little more dakka. More bonus feats? Perhaps a path to look at.

    Sorcerer: I gotta finish the Improvise write up and Sorcerer is ready to go!

    Warlock: I haven't even started here besides a black Warlock.doc. I know what I want here. I just haven't gotten anything on paper. But I did Occultist in just under a week, so... I think I can do this.

    Warlord: Wow... I have a rough draft and the Marshal class and the Warblade to build on. A dual caster with a d12 hit die sounds fun, especially since I'm giving him Martial/Aura as his casting. So... he's mainly a walking Shammy Totem from WoW.

    Wizard: I need to fill out the rest of the school training and the Research ability needs to be copy pasta in.



    As for 3.5 classes I didn't address...

    Spoiler
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    Samurai: ???

    Ninja: Elemental themed assassin build rogue? I guess?

    Sohei: Do we need him as more than a Paladin variant?

    Psion: I'm seeing something similar to how I have wizard.

    Wilder: An emotion themed wilder wounds fun. Very Blackest Night. THE POWER OF LOVE COMPELS YOU! LOVE ME! LOVE ME! Now I'm sad... enjoy the acid rain of my torment... *sigh*

    Psychic Warrior: ... What? You really thought I wouldn't use him?

    Soulknife: I'm thinking making him a Psionic/Martial class. Another dual class, I know, but still... he could use the dakka, no?

    Incarnate: We need a main Incarnum class. As it is, we have the Sub Casting Paladin.

    Totemist: See Incarnate.

    Soulborn: You're in paladin too, missy. Tough luck.

    Binder: He needs some love down the road.

    Shadowcaster: ... Must... avoid... compulsion... to make... into... wizard variant!

    Truenamer: WOW... This one will be TOUGH... so tempted to avoid touching with two ten foot poles that used to be a ladder... But he has requests... YOU'RE GOING TO THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST TRUENAMER! I love ya, but dang if your mechanics aren't the wobbliest thing since the Weebles.

    Dragonfire Adept: Hi Draconic Warlock. What're you doing outta you cage?

    Dragon Shaman: You've been absorbed into Warlock, Sorcerer and Paladin. Suck it up.

    Knight: Why do we need knights when we have Paladins of every alignment and Warlords? In fact... Warlord is essentially Knight/Warblade/Marshal, so...

    Beguiler/Warmage/Dread Necro: You'll get your time, buds. Don't worry.

    Wu Jen: You're a wizard school now. Live with it.

    Favored Soul: You'll get yours one day, man.

    Shugenja: Wow... really want to incorperate him into Favored Soul.

    Spirit Shaman: I freaking hate Spirit Shaman... Though the idea of combinign Shaman, Dragon Shaman and Spirit Shaman into Shaman sounds nice. Aura/Divine caster with totem themed powered.

    Swashbuckler: Let's get you back into Fighter and Rogue where you belong...

    Hexblade: Has been incorperated into Warlock and Paladin and will be mixed into Beguiler.

    Healer: You're the battle medic now. Get off this list.

    Swordsage: You'll return, old friend. Though Ranger is now your stepson.

    Warblade: You'll come back too buddy. Plus you kind of exist already in the Warlord and Ranger.

    Crusader: You stay away! You're in paladin now, you hear me? YOU'RE PALADIN NOW!

    Complete Psionic: ... Um... look, Complete Psionic classes... we had a fun time, really we did... but you're being Liquidized. Lurk, ypu're a Soulknife build. Ardent, welcome to Psion. Divine Mind, you don't even have a place here, but Wilder will carry your torch. Erudite, you're just a psion variant. Now get off your pedestal.

    Savant: You live on in all dual caster classes, my friend.

    Mountebank: Rogue kinda absorbed you too, buddy.

    Jester: You're a bard build. Sorry.

    Urban Druid: Really? You really thought you'd be more than a druid build? HA! HAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Assassin: Wow, assassin... you're a rogue path... please... don't kill me... I have a wife and kids... in Harvest Moon at least...



    So yeah, that's the class list.

    Now for the races I'm including right off the bat
    Spoiler
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    Humans, duh.
    Aasimar
    Changelings
    Dromites, sans LA
    Drow, sans LA.
    Dwarves, now 20% more dwarfy!
    Elves
    Gnomes
    Halflings
    Half-Drow (mechanically different than Half-Elves!)
    Half-Elves
    Half-Orcs
    Maenads
    Shifters (with Saurian built in!)
    Warforged

    Also, at 2nd level and every 4 levels there after, you get a +1 to a skill from your Racial Skill List.
    At 3rd and every 4 thereafter (except 11th...) you get a +1 to one of the two stats your race favors (Humans, Half-Elves, Half-Drow and Changelings all can pick whatever.)
    At 5th and every 4 levels thereafter, you get to pick a new Racial Ability your race qualifies for (like Dwarves getting Energy Resistance (Cold) or DR 2/Adamantine, or Elves getting Spell Resistance or a +2 to Initiative, or Gnomes getting Color Spray 1/day. Humans get a nice list to pick off of too. Luck Points!)

    So yeah. Just some teasers on how races will work now. Build a race! Build your class! Make your character as they are in your mind!


    So yeah. Any thoughts on that?
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    Thank you very much. you know, I think I like you, Prime. =)
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    Quote Originally Posted by alchemyprime View Post
    So yeah. Any thoughts on that?
    Not really...not without a link to what you've actually done.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    Quote Originally Posted by Djinn_In_Tonic View Post
    Not really...not without a link to what you've actually done.
    Fair enough. ... I'm almost done with the fighter... once I'm done, I'll load up his PDF.

    ... While we're on the subject, anyone have any good art of a fighter? And if its a female, one with... I dunno... reasonable armor?

    (This armor rule I won't care so much about with other classes, but paladin, warlord and fighter it will grind my gears.)
    Last edited by alchemyprime; 2009-12-03 at 02:48 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctemwolf View Post
    Thank you very much. you know, I think I like you, Prime. =)
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    Hey alch, do you have a website, or other place where you're bringing together your rules? Besides the forum, that is.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    I want classes that I can build
    I want classes that definitely fit a niche (skillmonkey assassin Rogues, pure power fighters, paladins are warriors of a cause, etc.)
    I want to follow Rule of Cool.
    You won me on these alone :)
    I'll be waiting to see how it'll come out.
    Last edited by Roderick_BR; 2009-12-03 at 06:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    Quote Originally Posted by acedrow View Post
    Hey alch, do you have a website, or other place where you're bringing together your rules? Besides the forum, that is.
    Not yet. Once I have things ready (meaning my classes are done) I'll set up a wiki. Or at least have PDFs on my 4shared account. But as of now, its just here.

    And Roderick, what's your favorite class? Maybe I'll post that up a little faster for ya.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctemwolf View Post
    Thank you very much. you know, I think I like you, Prime. =)
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    Quote Originally Posted by alchemyprime View Post
    Not yet. Once I have things ready (meaning my classes are done) I'll set up a wiki. Or at least have PDFs on my 4shared account. But as of now, its just here.

    And Roderick, what's your favorite class? Maybe I'll post that up a little faster for ya.
    Paladin. I guess you'll want to finish the fighter and the cleric first, though.

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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    Quote Originally Posted by Roderick_BR View Post
    Paladin. I guess you'll want to finish the fighter and the cleric first, though.
    Cleric is done, fighter almost. And paladin is perhaps the most customizable class we have.

    Pick 1 of 4 types of spell casting (Divine, Binding, Incarnum or Martial Maneuvers)
    Pick auras.
    Pick your paladin order (5 per alignment, you pick 1)
    Pick focuses every time you get another smite per encounter.
    Pick boons (Mounts, turns, other powers)

    I think paladin is coming out really well. He was going to get posted after the big 4 (Fighter, Cleric, Rogue, Wizard).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctemwolf View Post
    Thank you very much. you know, I think I like you, Prime. =)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmantra View Post
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    Default Re: Some Thoughts [d20/Prime20]

    Okay, for all of you to see, I give you:

    THE SORCERER IN BROWSER!
    THE SORCERER DOWNLOAD!

    The first class I finished.

    You'll notice a lot of stuff already existed in this. In fact, the Heritages were just me simplifying the Heritage feats, the Bloodlines were all from (I wanna say Crystal Keep... that site with the weird pdfs) though I modified them, and the talents were all ACFs for familiar.

    And the Improvise System was me modifying the Sorceror from Fax Celeste (who if I mispell your name, a thousand apologies). The art... I sadly cannae remember where it was from. I beleive I gained it from a VERY early edition of the Ultimate D&D Necromancer.

    Also, I experimented with the formatting and realized standard fit best. Sorry, the tables ended up getting split up a bit.

    Oh, and the dice in the Spells per day table:

    The numbers are Spell Slots per day.
    The dice (the XdY+Z) is recharge rounds. After casting a spell of this level, you must wait that many rounds before you can use that spell level again.

    When it says At Will... its At Will. If you have the actions to spend, you can cast it.


    But I hope you all enjoy this update. Next up will be Fighter!
    Last edited by alchemyprime; 2009-12-05 at 10:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctemwolf View Post
    Thank you very much. you know, I think I like you, Prime. =)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmantra View Post
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    Default Re: Prime20: Where Rule 0 is Rule Of Cool [d20/Prime20]

    ... In what experts are calling a "shameless bump"...

    Update: Just filling out more Fighter Talents for the Fighter. So far, he does things like no other class.

    The Tanks:
    Fighter: The Debuffing tank. He makes all of his enemies suck.
    Paladin: The bit of both tank. Relies heavily on smites to do this. Thankfully, he's getting them per encounter now (a trend I noticed other designers are doing).
    Warlord: The Buffing Tank. Yes, he's the tank. But he's also your friend. He makes every team mate better.

    Looked over the classes today. I don't think anyone besides monk is below Tier 3 now. Fighter is a very high 3, maybe even a low 2. Paladin is definately a low 2. Warlord... he's not even half done, so I can't judge that.

    Cleric and Wizard are still Tier 1. Sorcerer is a much higher 2 I'd say. And druid is following suit.

    I have no idea why I'm telling you all this. >.>


    MAGIC! Right, magic...

    Okay. I know I detailed it above so...

    RESERVE POINT AND HIT POINTS!

    Why use set hit points? Makes things easier. No more "my barbarian has less hp than the wizard, stupid dice" unless the DM wants it that way.

    How'd I get the starting numbers? I orignally tried 2x Max, but it was still a little low. I tried 3x, but... only Low BAB classes felt right at that number. Barbarians were CRAZY with 36 hp at 1st! And fighters with 30? A little high to start. But I liked Wizards and Sorcerers (okay, at the time it was JUST sorcerers) with 18. So I messed around, and eventually realized that 2x Max + 6 was the best result.

    And Reserve Points? I made it 1.5 times. So I beleive starting should be 3x + 8, and level up be "2x Average" instead of "Average + .5" like HP was.

    I like these numbers. Makes leveling up easy.

    Why use reserve points? Well... I figure with more HP, that's all well and dandy, but it doesn't really help my biggest problem: clerics don't heal enough. So I figured, let the characters heal themselves on top of it.

    Oh, and we have 5 saves now... hehehe... result of using "Players Roll All The Dice"

    Defence is replacing AC. Calculated the same, except the 10 standard is 1d20.
    Fort, Ref and Will are the same EXCEPT! You may pick the higher of (Str or COn for Fort saves, Dex or Int for Ref and Wis or Cha for Will). I liked this. Makes games a little tougher. Also, makes folks a little less MAD.

    The last save is Death. It's a simple d20 roll. Only a few places give you a bonus. When dying, roll above 10 to stabilize, roll below 10 three times and you die, and roll a Natural 20 and reset to 0 then spend Reserve Points to get back up (to a max of 1/4 total hp).

    And if you heal over your Max HP, you can then start healing RP. Unless that's at max too. Greedy person.

    PROFICIENCIES

    Your armor and sheilds are no different, except if you wear armor, you use that bonus over your Defense bonus for you Defense save.

    Weapons are group based now. And we have a few new weapon groups: some racial ones (Drow, Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Orc) as well as Rifles and Guns.

    And yes, with Rifles and Exotic Weapon PRoficiency, some BFGs become available.

    SKILLS
    Skills work like this now: No more 4x at 1st level. No more points each level. You get skills at 1st level in your class.
    If you spend a Skill Point on a skill it is TRAINED. If you don't, it is UNTRAINED.
    If a class is on your class skill list, you get a +3 bonus to that skill.
    When you multiclass into a new class, you get half their skill points, and all their class skills get a +1. Even if you already had it (so a Fighter 1/Paladin 1 would have a +4 to Intimidate, without their Trained or Untrained bonuses)
    Trained skills have Ranks equal to your Character level.
    Untrained skills have a bonus equal to 1/2 your character level. This goes away in favor of the Ranks if you train in it.
    So that Fighter 1/Paladin 1? If he trained in Intimidate, he has a +6 bonus before he adds his Charisma mod. If he's a paladin, IT BETTER BE HUGE! (Paladins are based on Charisma, Wisdom and STrength, primarily.)

    AFTERTHOUGHTS
    Hope to have fighter up tomorrow or by monday. Also realizing how silly it is to post classes before races. Oh well. If you REALLY want to use them once I have the ones you want up, use standard 3.5 races until then. Though, honestly, the Pathfinder versions are a little closer to what I ended up with.

    Oh, humans?

    Add in a +1 to Fortitude, Reflex and Will saves.
    Get 1 Weapon Proficiency (not a whole group, just an extra weapon. Any one.)
    You extra Skill Point each level is now an extra Skill Point at 1st level (to Train a skill) and you can pick one skill to be a class skill for your first class, even if its not normally.
    You pick a favored class at 1st and stick with it. Favored Classes are no longer "no XP penalty" because no one gets that. Favored classes are "+1 HP per level and you can train one extra Class Skill in it" Bit more fun.

    And on that note, I leave you with a pictue of Perry the Platypus. Curse you, Phineas and Ferb Marathon!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctemwolf View Post
    Thank you very much. you know, I think I like you, Prime. =)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmantra View Post
    You, sir, have created the best Pokerman possible. Here is your medal. Everyone else can just give up.

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    Default Re: Prime20: Where Rule 0 is Rule Of Cool [d20/Prime20]

    Alright folks, it's a little later than I wanted, but THE FIGHTER IS HERE!

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    The fighter... well... I had to give him more powers.

    Bonus Feats: 10
    Art of Battle: 5
    Warcraft: 5
    Talents: 13
    Veteran
    Shift Tactics
    Weapon Training: 4
    Weapon Mastery
    Armor Training: 4
    Armor Mastery

    All by 20th level. At first, its +6 Defense Bonus, +1 BAB, Good Fort, Poor Ref and Will, a Bonus Feat and Least Talent.

    Talents... are somewhere between a warlock invocation and a martial maneuver.

    Hm... what class should come next? I want you folks to vote which class I should upload next:

    Barbarian
    Bard
    Battle Medic
    Cleric
    Druid
    Monk
    Occultist
    Paladin
    Ranger
    Rogue
    Warlock
    Warlord
    Wizard

    What sounds fun next?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctemwolf View Post
    Thank you very much. you know, I think I like you, Prime. =)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogmantra View Post
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    Default Re: Prime20: Where Rule 0 is Rule Of Cool [d20/Prime20]

    My vote goes for the Barbarian....

    ... naturally...
    "Do not anger a bard...for you are silly, and would make for a funny song."

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    Default Re: Prime20: Where Rule 0 is Rule Of Cool [d20/Prime20]

    I vote for wizard.

    And for HP? I stole something from the Starship trooper RPG (d20 style), Where everyone begins with their constitution in hp and gets 1 or 2 extra points each level. What I did was to give everyone their constitution+a bonus from their class at 1st level, and then a half the 1st level bonus+their constitution modifier after that. So a 1st level barbarian and a 1st level wizard both with 10 constitution get 20 and 12 respectively. The bonuses went like this: Barbarian 10/5, fighter/paladin/ranger/defender 8/4, cleric/druid/monk 6/3, bard/thief 4/2, and wizards/sorcerers/warlocks/wizard variants 2/1. So a 20th level wizard with 10 con has 10+2+19hp (31 hp), while a 20th level barbarian with 10 con has 10+10+95hp (115hp), while a fighter with 10 con has 10+8+76hp (94hp), a cleric with 10 con has 10+6+57hp (73hp), and the thief with 10 con has 10+4+38hp (52 hp). This means that the meat shields have a nice large amount of hp that scales quickly, while wizards have a low amount at all levels. Looking at this I might go back and change the numbers to be slightly higher for thieves, bards and primary arcane spellcasters, so they can survive more at high levels (need a way to make the defender good at defending, maybe a 5th level ability that lets him taunt as a free action).

    Edit: the sorcerers spells per day look a bit weird at the high levels, is that spells per encounter the roll?
    Last edited by Anonymouswizard; 2009-12-07 at 05:01 PM.
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    Default Re: Prime20: Where Rule 0 is Rule Of Cool [d20/Prime20]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    I vote for wizard.

    And for HP? I stole something from the Starship trooper RPG (d20 style), Where everyone begins with their constitution in hp and gets 1 or 2 extra points each level. What I did was to give everyone their constitution+a bonus from their class at 1st level, and then a half the 1st level bonus+their constitution modifier after that. So a 1st level barbarian and a 1st level wizard both with 10 constitution get 20 and 12 respectively. The bonuses went like this: Barbarian 10/5, fighter/paladin/ranger/defender 8/4, cleric/druid/monk 6/3, bard/thief 4/2, and wizards/sorcerers/warlocks/wizard variants 2/1. So a 20th level wizard with 10 con has 10+2+19hp (31 hp), while a 20th level barbarian with 10 con has 10+10+95hp (115hp), while a fighter with 10 con has 10+8+76hp (94hp), a cleric with 10 con has 10+6+57hp (73hp), and the thief with 10 con has 10+4+38hp (52 hp). This means that the meat shields have a nice large amount of hp that scales quickly, while wizards have a low amount at all levels. Looking at this I might go back and change the numbers to be slightly higher for thieves, bards and primary arcane spellcasters, so they can survive more at high levels (need a way to make the defender good at defending, maybe a 5th level ability that lets him taunt as a free action).

    Edit: the sorcerers spells per day look a bit weird at the high levels, is that spells per encounter the roll?

    Spells work like this.

    If you see a NUMBER, that is spells per day.

    If you see a DIE ROLL, that is a cool down time. Meaning that to cast that spell level again, you must wait that many rounds.

    If you see AT WILL that means... its At Will. Duh. You have infinity slots.

    0 level spells are always at will, as per Pathfinder.

    So a 20th level Sorcerer has 6 9th level spells per day, 6 8th level spells per day, 6 7th level spells per day. He must wait 1d8 rounds between casting 6th level spells, 1d6+1 rounds between casting 5th level spells, 1d6 rounds between 4th level spells, 1d4 rounds between 3rd and 2nd leel spells and can cast 0s and 1sts as long as he has the actions to do so.,


    So if the Sorcerer cast MEteor Swarm, he loses 1 spell slot of 9th level that day. If he casts Lightning Bolt he must wait 1d4 round before he can cast another Lightning Bolt, or a Fireball or any 3rd level spell. But the other 9 levels (0-2nd, 4th-9th) are still available to cast in that time.
    If you roll a 1, you have 1` round without that slot. It does not come back next round.

    So rolling a 3 on the 1d4 is
    Round 1: Cast
    Round 2: No spell
    Round 3: No spell
    Round 4: No spell
    Round 5: You can cast again.

    Also, he can burn slots to do metamagic. Let's say Mr Sorc 20 needs a level 7 slot to cast a Maximized Shout or some reason, he can count that as a 4th and a 3rd or a 6th and a 1st (spending a slot and making 1st unreachable), or just a 7th. He CANNOT cast it as two 3rds and a 1st, and just take double recharge from the 3rd.

    If you spend a 1st level for Metamagic and it is already At Will, you DO NOT get the slot back next turn. You wait 1d3 rounds.

    Yeah it feels MMO ish. Shush. I like it like that.
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  27. - Top - End - #27
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    Default Re: Prime20: Where Rule 0 is Rule Of Cool [d20/Prime20]

    This looks promising indeed. Until I stumbled upon this thread, I didn't realize we even needed a d20 like this. Now, I can't understand why this hasn't been done earlier. Do continue making this. Also, I vote Paladin.

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    Default Re: Prime20: Where Rule 0 is Rule Of Cool [d20/Prime20]

    You're probably going to want to take a look at Exalted's stunting mechanics.

    EDIT: Actually, based on your first post, it also sounds like you'd probably enjoy Exalted in general.
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    Default Re: Prime20: Where Rule 0 is Rule Of Cool [d20/Prime20]

    ...This is awesome...
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    Default Re: Prime20: Where Rule 0 is Rule Of Cool [d20/Prime20]

    I realized after a while that implementing every variant I like would involve rehauling the classes (blame Draken for that, actually). So I started with the Barbarian, and Healer and Bard.

    Why start there? I dunno. Seemed right.

    Eventually I just did an archive binge of every d20 book I owned that wasn't setting specific. I went nuts. I even read a few setting books like the Eberron and Forgotten Realms books. And the Dragonlance CS and Pathfinder and the old Sztanzy Ultimate D&D, and a little of the Tombowings continuation. And Fax Celeste's d20r, and then I started compiling.

    Sorcerer was pushed ahead by Gwyn Chan 'r Gwyll, who's favorite class is sorcerer (or was, until I told him about my progress on Occultist and Paladin. Now he's conflicted.

    Moosefisher kept pushing forward Fighter and Warlord (he wants to play Kamina) so they got moved ahead.

    I wanted ranger to be awesome, but I hate the "Druid Lite" ranger. So ranger spells are all Druid spells now. Rangers get maneuvers. Its cooler like that. Makes the fighting aspect cooler.

    Also. I hate theurges. HATE.

    HATE!

    HATRED!

    ALCHEMYPRIME YOU HAVE MUST RAGE TOWARDS THEURGES. WELCOME TO THE d20 BRANCH OF THE RED LANTERN CORPS.

    No thanks, I'm waiting for the Blue or Green ring. Or Orchid, if it pops up. >.> My DA followers know about that.

    Anyway...

    Theurges: You're GONE. I'll be making core classes to fill your roles (I'm also not too keen on PrCs... but they may return. We've had ideas.).
    Casting types:
    Arcane
    Aura (the only casting without a Magic Rating)
    Binding
    Divine
    Incarnum
    Martial Maneuvers
    Psionics

    And the classes with the combos!
    Arcane/Binding: Bard
    Arcane/Martial: Bard
    Aura/Binding: Paladin
    Aura/Divine: Paladin
    Aura/Incarnum: Paladin
    Aura/Martial: Paladin AND Warlord
    Binding/Divine: Occultist

    I know. That's it for now. I do plan on making more. Guys, you're getting 3 binding classes. Not as tough as Binder, but still... dude. 3 binding classes. Two tanks and an adept with binding. You're getting an Arcane/Martial class. You're getting two classes with Auras. Constant bonuses guys. Really.

    And I do plan on making more dual casters in the future, but I want the classes I started on out there first. Also, Binder will come. I just wanna see how well people react to Bindadin, Occultist and Binding Bard first.


    So yeah, thank your fellow playgrounders (Draken, Shmee, Tialait, Moosefisher, and Gwyn Chan 'r Gwll) for egging me along on this. Thank you comic readers for getting the Blackest Night references.

    And I'd like some votes. EGG ME ON PLAYGROUND!

    Bard needs some love, but so do my finals. Its like I'm in a Finals Crisis. Hm... I'll do my studying a bit later. I'll work on Paladin and Bard while I listen to Cake and Jonathan Coulton. They'll be up a little later this week. Wizard needs a LOT of work. So far only Diviners, Abjurers and Conjurers are done, and we know we all wanna be Necromancers and Transmuters.

    I mean, we do, right?

    Right?

    Guys, I need some reassurance! AAAHHHH!


    Okay, I'm better now.

    This is Alchemyprime, your schizotypal, obsessive personality, homebrewing friend.
    Last edited by alchemyprime; 2009-12-08 at 12:03 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noctemwolf View Post
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    You, sir, have created the best Pokerman possible. Here is your medal. Everyone else can just give up.

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