Thinking about Eidolons [Pathfinder]

[Zadus]

I'm just rolling up a ninth level Summoner to see what they can do and I'm currently working on the Eidolon. They seem powerful, correct me if I'm wrong, but they almost constitute another character, a good character at that. This is leading me to think that summoners are a little too beefy, but as it's only in Beta, I'm sure they'll make it reasonable.

But that's not what this thread is about. I was thinking it would be cool to allow players to actually play Eidolon and it appears to open up the possibility of characters playing a monster of their own design and improving themselves within a decent set of rules guiding them. It also seems that a whole party could be Eidolons and not have a tremendous amount of overlap. Sure they would be combat oriented and lack magic, but they'd all be very different characters. I think this would allow someone to be a fledgling "thing"

Imagine a plane where your body is shaped by your will and everyone is different. Now there can be rules for that.

Anyway what do other people think. Is this a sane idea?

[Mauril Everleaf]

As soon as I saw the eidolon rules, I thought "This is like the old 1e random demon rules!" (which I loved). With a reasonable amount of certainty, you can bet that any two similarly "evolved" eidolons will be about the same amount of challenge. I plan to use them to create monsters for an upcoming adventure involving a mad scientist style wizard.

[Akal Saris]

I think it would be a nifty concept, though the characters might end up closer than you'd think, especially at low levels. I'd introduce a few more base forms if you decided to try running it as a 1-shot though - some more forms could be things like "Humanoid caster", "Amphibian", "Bird", and "Vermin."

[Starbuck_II]

You can have magic (pg 9 Spell-like ability).
Points equal to spell's level gives a 1/day.
Doesn't say can take more than once sadly.

[Person_Man]

I think the Eidolon's abilities are poorly paced for base class. Their abilities are front loaded (2 HD at first level, a bunch of free Evolutions, Evasion). But over 20 levels, they get 17 HD, and they lose some of their luster at high levels (when full casters are throwing around 8th and 9th level spells). I think that if you gave them 20 HD over 20 levels, gained feats as a normal character, and slightly upped the Evolution Points at higher levels,and gave them the Summoner's caster progression, it would be pretty awesome.

[Mauril Everleaf]

I think the Eidolon's abilities are poorly paced for base class. Their abilities are front loaded (2 HD at first level, a bunch of free Evolutions, Evasion). But over 20 levels, they get 17 HD, and they lose some of their luster at high levels (when full casters are throwing around 8th and 9th level spells). I think that if you gave them 20 HD over 20 levels, gained feats as a normal character, and slightly upped the Evolution Points at higher levels,and gave them the Summoner's caster progression, it would be pretty awesome.

So...essentially merge the summoner and her summon from level 1?

[Zadus]

Cool ideas.

I did a quick rehash of the Eidolon which gave them full base attack bonus, full HD and feats as a normal character. I removed evasion and honestly I think that the eidolon on their own isn't a bad class.

Random demon rules is awesome.

[Starbuck_II]

Cool ideas.

I did a quick rehash of the Eidolon which gave them full base attack bonus, full HD and feats as a normal character. I removed evasion and honestly I think that the eidolon on their own isn't a bad class.

Random demon rules is awesome.

They already get full BAB and feats...
Did you mean ths Summoner?

[Person_Man]

So...essentially merge the summoner and her summon from level 1?

How about this:

Eidolon Racial Class

d10 hit die (If you're playing 3.5 instead of Pathfinder, I would use d8 instead).

Skills: 6 + Int: Bluff, Craft, Knowledge (all), Fly, Linguistics, Perception, Sense Motive, Spellcraft. (Note that Outsiders normally get 8 points per level in 3.5, but Pathfinder consolidates many Skills. As written, Eidolon get 6 per level, which I think is the right call for Pathfinder).

Upon initial character creation, you choose a base form (Quadruped, Biped, or Serpantine). This sets your strong Saves, and gives you your base Movement forms and several free Evolutions.

The Eidolon

{table=head]Level | BAB | Strong Saves | Weak Save | Nat Armor | Str/Dex| Evol Pool| Special
1st | +1 | +2 | +0 | +0 | +0 | 1 | Outsider Type, Evolution, Spells
2nd | +2 | +3 | +0 | +0 | +0 | 2 | Spontanous Summons
3rd | +3 | +3 | +0 | +0 | +0 | 3 | Ability Score Increase
4th | +4 | +4 | +1 | +0 | +0 | 4 | Devotion
5th | +5 | +4 | +1 | +0 | +0 | 6 |
6th | +6 | +5 | +2 | +1 | +1 | 8 |
7th | +7| +5 | +2 | +1 | +1 | 9 | Ability Score Increase
8th | +8 | +6 | +2 | +2 | +2 | 10 | Multiattack
9th | +9 | +6 | +3 | +2 | +2 | 12 |
10th | +10 | +7| +3 | +3 | +3 | 14 |
11th | +11 | +7 | +3 | +3 | +3 | 15 | Ability Score Increase
12th | +12 | +8 | +4 | +4 | +4 | 16 | Evasion
13th | +13 | +8 | +4 | +4 | +4 | 18 |
14th | +14 | +9 | +4 | +5 | +5 | 20 |
15th | +15 | +9 | +5 | +5 | +5 | 21 | Ability Score Increase
16th | +16 | +10 | +5| +6 | +6 | 22 | Improved Evasion
17th | +17 | +10 | +5 | +6 | +6 | 24 |
18th | +18| +11 | +6 | +7 | +7 | 26 |
19th | +19| +11 | +6 | +7 | +7 | 28 | Ability Score Increase
20th | +20 | +12 | +6 | +8 | +8 | 30 | Mercurial Form
[/table]

Class Abilities:

Outsider Type: You have the Outsider type. This includes darkvision, proficiency with simple and martial weapons, and the lack of a need to sleep or eat. If you are reduced below -10 hit points or are otherwise killed, you are instead instantly returned to your original plane of existence. You cannot be resurrected or reincarnated. If you wish to return, someone on the material plane who is aware of your existence and the location of your home plane must use a Gate spell to do so.

However, unlike other outsiders your permanent residence on the material plane of existence combined with your constantly evolving form requires that you abstain from spells with the Polymorph subschool. If you are subject to such a spell, you are considered Staggered until it ends. This includes harmful Polymorph spells cast against you, assuming you fail their Saving Throw.

Evolution: As per Pathfinder. Note that I give them 2 fewer points at low level, but 4 more at higher level. This is because they are a full BAB class with 3/4 casting (they get 2 first level spells - which means they may outshine Wizards at casting at 1st level unless otherwise nerfed a bit).

Spells: As per Summoner. (Charisma based spontaneous spells from a limited but useful list with slightly better then Bard-ish progression).

Spontaneous Summons: Due to their close connection to their native plane of existence, Eidolon may sponanously "loose" any spell slot they possess to cast a Summon Monster spell of the same level (as per a Druid and their ability to Summon Nature's Ally). However, they may not Summon creatures with a an alignment in opposition to their own (for example, a Lawful Eidolon may not Summon a Chaotic monster). (This is essentially a replacement of the Summoner's ability to Summon Monster at the same pace as a Wizard, but as a Spell Like ability with a 1 minute per level duration, which I think is ridiculous).

Mercurial Form: As a Full Round Action that provokes an attack of opportunity, you may reallocate your Evolution points as you see fit, changing your form to suit your current needs.

Everything else is as per the Pathfinder class. Note that I moved the class abilities around to fit my sense of balance. In particular, I moved Evasion from 2nd level (full BAB and Evasion at 2nd level, WTF?) to 12 level. I also toned down the Natural Armor Bonus from +16 to +8.

So, what do people think?