lvl five barbarian optimization

[MiniMalconvoker]

Ok. I've played barbarians. I played them in second edition and now i am attemping to play them in 3.5 A large jump if you can imagine. LvL 5 so no ubercharger because of no pounce and shock trooper. What are some options at this level for barbarian in terms of relativley high optimization. and what are though process from 2.0 should i purge first. Any help Welcome

[Thrice Dead Cat]

I can't help you with anything from switching from 2E, but, generally you'll want Power Attack, Power Attack, and Power Attack as far as feats go. Dips into fighter for other, things like Improved Bullrush and Knockback (Races of Stone) and Dungeoncrasher (Dungeonscape) will put your massive strength score to good use.

Going for Bear Warrior and Frenzied Berserker (both Complete Warrior) will increase your strength even further, while Steadfast Determination (PHB2) will prevent you from failing those save-or-be-mine will saves.

Give me a sec, and I should be able to throw a handbook your way for more in depth analysis.

EDIT: This should be able to explain things a little more clearly.

[HCL]

whaddayamean no pounce? Lion totem ACF from Complete champion, then you just need to get a bunch of natural attacks :)

few ideas
Darfellan (Stormwrack): +2 str -2 dex and a bite attack

Warforged (Eberron): +2 con -2 cha -2 wis natural slam and you can get a bite attack with jaws of death feat

Anything with the dragonblood subtype can get Dragon Tail (Races of the Dragons) as a feat giving you a tail attack. The good options for this are

Dragonborn of bahamut (Races of the Dragons) template on one of the above 2 races, ditch old ex abilities other than natural attacks, speed, racial modifiers, and size and get +2 con -2 dex dragonblood subtype and some other goodies

Fireblood Dwarf (Dragon Magic): Most of the dwarven goodies, dragonblood subtype

2+ Levels of Totemist (Magic of Incarnum): This is a great way to "make your own monster" by getting natural attacks and special abilities. You may want to read through this book a couple times and read the brilliant gameologists magic of incarnum guide, it takes a bit to understand the system. An incarnum race like Skarn, Azurin, or Duskling can also help. Girallion arms is probably the best soulmeld for uber grappling, I would go with Landshark boots for a charger. Also is the ticket for entry into totem rager, a nice versatile prestige class.

Whirling frenzy rage variant (Unearthed Arcana) gives you an extra iterative with your primary attack (which would be your weapon), but its a bit diffferent from normalr age so check it out.

Just some options for lots of damage on full attacks. Other options

Goliath (Races of Stone)- Pick up mountain rage for large size when raging, this gives you bigger reach and improved modifiers for bull rushes, grapples and trips.

Human is always nice for bonus feat if flaws are not allowed

Halforc with races of destiny sub levels can get some decent modifiers with 2 handed weapons

Orc just has a lot of strength

Feats:
Wolf Totem Berserker (Unnapproachable East): +4 on trip attempts, counts as combat expertise for the purpose of qualifying you for improved trip so you don't need 13 in int (and its just a better feat)
Combat expertise: If you aren't human and/or are getting warblade levels (great class to multiclass into) and have the intel anyways.
Improved Trip: Make them lose actions and provoke attacks of opportunity
Knockdown (SRD): If your dm allows this it may be worth the feat, any time you hit for more than 10 damage you can get a free trip attempt afterwards (instead of making the trip attempt and then rolling the attack as you normally would do)
Combat Reflexes: More attacks of opportunity
Improved Unarmed Strike: If you go into bear warrior (Complete Champion) later or even just the totemist/rager route will want this so you can make punches in addition to your natural attacks
Improved Grapple: Like trip, this can shut an enemy down
Cobalt Rage: Increased will saves and damage while raging depending on how much essentia points you put into it, if you go into totem rager this fills up with essentia points free. So if you are getting a whole ton of natural attacks and unarmed strikes, this can add up to a lot.
Power attack: MOAR DAMAGE when you need it, especially good with 2 handed weapons

[RagnaroksChosen]

Ok. I've played barbarians. I played them in second edition and now i am attemping to play them in 3.5 A large jump if you can imagine. LvL 5 so no ubercharger because of no pounce and shock trooper. What are some options at this level for barbarian in terms of relativley high optimization. and what are though process from 2.0 should i purge first. Any help Welcome

Um well 3.5 barbarian plays more like a bezerker from 2nd ed. if you can't get pounce which is fine then grab a two handed axe and get your str high...

If it is core only... grab a half orc for the str bonus.
Get to know power attack as it will be your bread and butter.


Even if you can get pounce grab a two hander... and charge alot...

remember charging gives +2 to hit... so thats two more to power attack...
which translates into a +4 to dmg...

by level 5 you should be able to get a +1 weapon and some gauntelts of ogres str... so your str should be about 22 before raging...

though some people will debate the math... grab a great axe over a great sword... the crits are amazing..

Eaither way with a 2 hander at 22 str before rage you should be doing a base of 9 dmg + 10 power attack(for full unless its hard to hit) so base of 19 thats not including a magic weapon or the weapon dmg it self or critting...


also see if your friendly group wizard can cast enlarge person on your...

[MiniMalconvoker]

Ok Here's what I got.

Goliath 1
Fighter 2
Barbarian 2

Feats:
Power Attack
Improved Bullrush
Leap Attack
Knockback

+
Equipment stats ect.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Ok Here's what I got.

Goliath 1
Fighter 2
Barbarian 2

Feats:
Power Attack
Improved Bullrush
Leap Attack
Knockback

+
Equipment stats ect.

I would drop Leap Attack for the Dungeoncrasher alternate class feature so as to get more mileage out of whacking people around like pinballs. Otherwise, looks pretty good.

[Arakune]

People, slow down on the guy. He just went from 2e to 3.5 barbarian, try something simpler.

[Eldariel]

Straight Barbarian is frankly fine. Few solid options:

Class variants
Standard Barbarian - The abilities really are pretty good. Trap Sense is a bit lackluster, but c'est la vie.
Wolf Totem Barbarian - gets Tripping-related stuff without having to pick up Combat Expertise. Tripping is v. good in D&D.
Spirit Lion Totem [Complete Champion] - This trades your fast movement for Pounce. A very good trade, especially once you get some levels.
Whirling Frenzy - A more offensive version of Rage.

Weapons
Other than that, yeah, pick up a two-handed weapon (reach weapons like Guisarme and Glaive are excellent as they give you attacks of opportunity to enemies closing in on you; Spiked Chain and high damage close range weapons like Greatsword are fine too).

Prestige Classes:
If not feeling like single-classing Barbarian (it doesn't get very much on higher levels), you can try Bear Warrior or Frenzied Berserker prestige classes [Complete Warrior]. Runescarred Berserker [Unapproachable East] gives you a nice "spellcasting"-ability, if you're into that sort of thing.

Feats:
So yeah, Power Attack is your bread and butter. Extra Rage [Complete Warrior] is almost must provided it's available; it gets you two extra Rage-uses per day, and since you start with so few, that'll help a lot. If you have Complete Warrior, take the prerequisite feats for Shock Trooper. If you have Complete Adventurer, prepare to pick up Leap Attack too.

If going PHB-only, just pick up Power Attack, Cleave, Combat Reflexes and maybe the Mounted Combat-line (to Spirited Charge) or something similar; Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain is fairly good too. Improved Trip is great if you've got the Int or Wolf-totem substitution available; Tripping is a great combat maneuver in 3.5.


And yeah, if you need more feats, you can take couple of levels of Fighter. There's something of a Barbarian Handbook linked in my signature if you're interested.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and biggest changes from AD&D 2e to 3.5?
- Weapon damage is now a rather small part of your total damage output
- Two-Handed Fighting raises from the worst way to fight to the best way to fight (Barbarians approve)
- You need to work harder to stop opponents from ignoring you. Tripping or dealing obscene damage is a good way to do this.
- Combat maneuvers in general are more defined. Tripping and charging are both good ones.

[Mongoose87]

I would drop Leap Attack for the Dungeoncrasher alternate class feature so as to get more mileage out of whacking people around like pinballs. Otherwise, looks pretty good.

Is Dungeoncrasher really worth more than Leap Attack? He's looking at the possibility of grabbing Shock Trooper next feat.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Is Dungeoncrasher really worth more than Leap Attack? He's looking at the possibility of grabbing Shock Trooper next feat.

I personally prefer it to Leap Attack, and it still meshes well with Dungeoncrasher Shock Trooper.

[quiet1mi]

Power attack means damage... damage means dead opponents... dead opponents is a sure sign that you are doing your job

High strength means that you do not need to rely on BAB to hit...

Leap attack and shock trooper is for an outrageous amount of damage. In order to grab shock trooper you need to plan for it by grabbing improved bullrush. However if you grab both, you become dangerously close to becoming a one trick pony. The problem with charge is, if there is someone in the way or if there exist more difficult terrain than you can jump over... well kiss charging goodbye.

Raging alone, allows you to power attack for an extra 4 damage on top of the extra 3 from the strength bonus. That alone with a full attack translates to an extra 14 damage a round. At level 5 with 3 other people, that will be fine...

Grabbing a race that boost your strength helps a lot. I recommend Orc because it is LA +0... you will have some built in Rp issues and an easy background. The +4 str translates, when PA for 1 (you get a -1 to hit if it is sunny) means 5 extra damage right there. If you can avoid sunny places, like a dungeon, then you are looking at an extra 7 (3 from a +4 str and +4 dmg from taking from your attack bonus from your strength)

If you do not like Orcs than I recommend goliath with a simple background (why were you were exiled from your tribe or did something happen to your tribe) You receive a +4 strength, like the orc this allows you to pour into PA without a true penalty. In addition powerful build allows you to wield large weapons like a large great sword which translates into an extra d6 of damage per hit (basically an average of 3.5) on top of an extra +4 to grapple (+6 if you count the Str bonus and +8 if you are raging)...

There are some pointers on where to start... basically power attack is your bread and butter... after that it is just gravy....

Check the SRD for things like overrun and bullrush that rely on size and see how you can improve them... by the way a prone opponent takes a -4 penalty to their AC against melee attacks (this allows for an extra 8 damage a swing)

Ubercharging may be tempting but lookup person man's guide for melee characters on why it may not be a good idea... I am sure with a little bit of searching you could find it. Unless he posted it already while I have been typing it... [not claiming to be ninja'd because Ninja Bards do not get Ninja'd]