Sherlock Holmes

[SartheKobold]

Okay, I have ECL 8 Maximum to work with, with ECL 5 prefered...

I've decided I want to do Sherlock Holmes, but can't think of anything further than Diviner with Improved Familiar (Watson) and boosted Sense Motive, Spot and Search...

[Fortuna]

Well, maximum Intelligence is obviously a must. Wisdom is probably about 8 or less, considering that he takes drugs and frequently works himself to the point of illness. What you seem not to have picked up on immediately is that he is also a quite accomplished brawler. A rough ability score block would proabbly be Str 15, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 8, with some sort of homebrewed feat to get Int to Spot and Listen.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Factotum. You can basically mimic everything he does with that.

[Tavar]

Factotum. You can basically mimic everything he does with that.

To be fair, you can mimic practically everything with that. I mean, that's the classes whole shtick.

[SartheKobold]

Well, maximum Intelligence is obviously a must. Wisdom is probably about 8 or less, considering that he takes drugs and frequently works himself to the point of illness. What you seem not to have picked up on immediately is that he is also a quite accomplished brawler. A rough ability score block would proabbly be Str 15, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 8, Cha 8, with some sort of homebrewed feat to get Int to Spot and Listen.

He also did a little fencing, if I recall... Maybe an Elf for Longsword Proficiency?

I'm trying to keep away from Homebrewing, so I need to hit high with Wis...

[Thurbane]

You might find some inspiration in the Columbo thread...

[Tavar]

Factotum from dungeonscape eventually allows you to get Int to basically everything. That could work.

[kpenguin]

Oh, Sherlock has to have high Wis if only because he needs to hit high Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive checks. You'd also need pretty high Gather Information, Search, and at least one rank in every Knowledge skill. Unholy amounts in Knowledge (Local), as well. I don't see how else to represent the ability to identify where in the city a certain type of mud came from.

As for feats, you're probably looking at Leadership (Watson and the Baker's Street irregulars) and, obviously, Investigate.

[Bibliomancer]

The Investigate feat from Eberron is highly appropriate, and the Master Inquisitive prestige class wouldn't be a bad addition. BY ECL 8 you could get five levels in the prestige class and use True Seeing as a spell-like ability once per day, which would be rather useful, if you wanted to play someone who used deduction instead of spells to figure things out.

[Ravens_cry]

Oh, Sherlock has to have high Wis if only because he needs to hit high Spot, Listen, and Sense Motive checks. You'd also need pretty high Gather Information, Search, and at least one rank in every Knowledge skill. Unholy amounts in Knowledge (Local), as well. I don't see how else to represent the ability to identify where in the city a certain type of mud came from.

Knowledge:Plot Important Minutiae? Joking aside, the knowledge skills listed in the book are NOT the only ones possible.

[SartheKobold]

Factotum might be a route... <Looks into>

As for Investigate and Master Inquisitive, setting-specific books are out. No Eberron or FR...

[snoopy13a]

Why are you assuming that Holmes is higher level than Watson?

I'd go with Aristocrat. It gives simple and martial weapon profiency plus skills that really fit him. I believe that he is also the son of a country squire so that fits his social background somewhat.

I'd put Watson as an expert (physician related skills) with a level in warrior (he was in the army in Afghanistan).

[Wings of Peace]

Factotum WITH Able Learner. Doesnt matter if you dip or stick with it. You will learn EVERYTHING

[Human Paragon 3]

Human Paragon?

[Saintjebus]

Factotum WITH Able Learner. Doesnt matter if you dip or stick with it. You will learn EVERYTHING

But Holmes didn't know everything. A large portion of the first book was Watson trying to figure out what Holmes actually did, because his knowledge had odd gaps in it. To quote Holmes himself:

I think of the mind as an attic room. Most people have filled their room with junk, trash, etc, and when you fill the room and try to add something else, something that was in the room leaves. I try to only keep what I need in my room and get rid of everything else.

Holmes would definitely have some knowledge skills, but specific ones. He wouldn't know everything. For example, Knowledge: History would not be there, but Knowledge: Forensics would be.

Edit: Holmes quote paraphrased

[Pharaoh's Fist]

The reader may set me down as a hopeless busybody, when I confess how much this man stimulated my curiosity, and how often I endeavoured to break through the reticence which he showed on all that concerned himself. Before pronouncing judgment, however, be it remembered, how objectless was my life, and how little there was to engage my attention. My health forbade me from venturing out unless the weather was exceptionally genial, and I had no friends who would call upon me and break the monotony of my daily existence. Under these circumstances, I eagerly hailed the little mystery which hung around my companion, and spent much of my time in endeavouring to unravel it.

He was not studying medicine. He had himself, in reply to a question, confirmed Stamford's opinion upon that point. Neither did he appear to have pursued any course of reading which might fit him for a degree in science or any other recognized portal which would give him an entrance into the learned world. Yet his zeal for certain studies was remarkable, and within eccentric limits his knowledge was so extraordinarily ample and minute that his observations have fairly astounded me. Surely no man would work so hard or attain such precise information unless he had some definite end in view. Desultory readers are seldom remarkable for the exactness of their learning. No man burdens his mind with small matters unless he has some very good reason for doing so.

His ignorance was as remarkable as his knowledge. Of contemporary literature, philosophy and politics he appeared to know next to nothing. Upon my quoting Thomas Carlyle, he inquired in the naivest way who he might be and what he had done. My surprise reached a climax, however, when I found incidentally that he was ignorant of the Copernican Theory and of the composition of the Solar System. That any civilized human being in this nineteenth century should not be aware that the earth travelled round the sun appeared to be to me such an extraordinary fact that I could hardly realize it.

"You appear to be astonished," he said, smiling at my expression of surprise. "Now that I do know it I shall do my best to forget it."

"To forget it!"

"You see," he explained, "I consider that a man's brain originally is like a little empty attic, and you have to stock it with such furniture as you choose. A fool takes in all the lumber of every sort that he comes across, so that the knowledge which might be useful to him gets crowded out, or at best is jumbled up with a lot of other things so that he has a difficulty in laying his hands upon it. Now the skilful workman is very careful indeed as to what he takes into his brain-attic. He will have nothing but the tools which may help him in doing his work, but of these he has a large assortment, and all in the most perfect order. It is a mistake to think that that little room has elastic walls and can distend to any extent. Depend upon it there comes a time when for every addition of knowledge you forget something that you knew before. It is of the highest importance, therefore, not to have useless facts elbowing out the useful ones."

"But the Solar System!" I protested.

"What the deuce is it to me?" he interrupted impatiently; "you say that we go round the sun. If we went round the moon it would not make a pennyworth of difference to me or to my work."

I was on the point of asking him what that work might be, but something in his manner showed me that the question would be an unwelcome one. I pondered over our short conversation, however, and endeavoured to draw my deductions from it. He said that he would acquire no knowledge which did not bear upon his object. Therefore all the knowledge which he possessed was such as would be useful to him. I enumerated in my own mind all the various points upon which he had shown me that he was exceptionally well-informed. I even took a pencil and jotted them down. I could not help smiling at the document when I had completed it. It ran in this way --

SHERLOCK HOLMES -- his limits.

1. Knowledge of Literature. -- Nil.
2. Philosophy. -- Nil.
3. Astronomy. -- Nil.
4. Politics. -- Feeble.
5. Botany. -- Variable. Well up in belladonna,
opium, and poisons generally.
Knows nothing of practical gardening.
6. Geology. -- Practical, but limited.
Tells at a glance different soils
from each other. After walks has
shown me splashes upon his trousers,
and told me by their colour and
consistence in what part of London
he had received them.
7. Chemistry. -- Profound.
8. Anatomy. -- Accurate, but unsystematic.
9. Sensational Literature. -- Immense. He appears
to know every detail of every horror
perpetrated in the century.
10. Plays the violin well.
11. Is an expert singlestick player, boxer, and swordsman.
12. Has a good practical knowledge of British law.
When I had got so far in my list I threw it into the fire in despair. "If I can only find what the fellow is driving at by reconciling all these accomplishments, and discovering a calling which needs them all," I said to myself, "I may as well give up the attempt at once."

- A Study in Scarlet

[Harperfan7]

You really don't need to go out of core for this.

Human Rogue with improved unarmed strike, alertness, diligent, high Int, maxed search, skill focus search, decent Str/Con, and some charisma stuff (not sure on what, exactly, but it's there).

Not exactly optimized (you see what I did thar?), but accurate.

EDIT: and heal.

[kpenguin]

The breadth of Holmes' knowledge is inconsistent, to say the least.

EDIT: Ah yes, heal may also be important, if your DM allows you to use heal to determine cause of death as outlined in... CA I think?

[SartheKobold]

I wuv you, PF...

No, but I think Factotum isn't going to do it... I have a history of accomplished combat-artists, so I want to go a little less combat support... That's also why I'm making the decision to emphasize his combat ability less and focus more on his knowledge and networking/manipulation...

Maybe I'm recreating the wrong aspect? Maybe I should be making his Alter Ego, Dr. Gregory House?

[Draz74]

If you can use Oriental Adventures (and fudge the clan prerequisites), the Keen Intellect feat will let Holmes add INT instead of WIS to several things: Spot checks, Sense Motive checks, Heal checks, Will saves, and Survival checks.

Urban Tracking should also be considered.

[SartheKobold]

If you can use Oriental Adventures (and fudge the clan prerequisites), the Keen Intellect feat will let Holmes add INT instead of WIS to several things: Spot checks, Sense Motive checks, Heal checks, Will saves, and Survival checks.

Urban Tracking should also be considered.

I would that I could take from setting-specific books...

[kpenguin]

Factotum can do non-combat things fairly well as well, since they have every skill as a class skill.

[Talbot]

If you're not married to 3.5, I homebrewed a Private-Eye class for 4th. It's in the forums somewhere, but I don't know if the version I posted here had the more Holmesian build option yet. PM me if you want the more up to date file.

[SartheKobold]

If you're not married to 3.5, I homebrewed a Private-Eye class for 4th. It's in the forums somewhere, but I don't know if the version I posted here had the more Holmesian build option yet. PM me if you want the more up to date file.

I actually am married to 3.5...

[KillianHawkeye]

I actually am married to 3.5...

I'd like to see the pre-nup on that one!

[Prime32]

The hypercognition power fits Holmes, but it's an 8th-level power so it's going to be pretty hard to get access to.

[industrious]

So does contingent recall and resurrection.

[Optimystik]

The hypercognition power fits Holmes, but it's an 8th-level power so it's going to be pretty hard to get access to.

Hypercognition is a lot closer to Jeff Goldblum logic than Sherlock Holmes IMO.