DMM Persist and Miracle

[Commander_Vimes]

Can you use Divine Metamagic Persist on a spell cast using Miracle? For example, if I cast Giant Size on myself could I use DMM Persist to make it last all day?

[Toliudar]

I suppose it depends on whether you think that "duplicate any other spell of 7th level or lower" also duplicates the fact that Giant Size is an arcane spell instead of a divine spell. Me, I'd probably allow it.

[Navigator]

You're applying Persistent Spell to miracle. The last time I checked, miracle doesn't meet the range requirements for Persistent Spell.

[SaintRidley]

You're applying Persistent Spell to miracle. The last time I checked, miracle doesn't meet the range requirements for Persistent Spell.

I think what he's asking is "Can I cast miracle and ask for Persistent Giant Size?"

Which really just makes me ponder why in the world he's choosing Giant Size as the desired Miracle effect instead of something... more useful? Maybe there's some application for Giant Size I'm not seeing?

[PhoenixRivers]

I think what he's asking is "Can I cast miracle and ask for Persistent Giant Size?"

Which really just makes me ponder why in the world he's choosing Giant Size as the desired Miracle effect instead of something... more useful? Maybe there's some application for Giant Size I'm not seeing?

It's used in a lot of hulking hurler builds. Be a quadruped (or get the graft that does it), become colossal, and throw big things.

[SaintRidley]

I see.

Now I'm trying to think here. A single Persisted Giant Size only lasts 24 hours.

Is it really worth it? A build that gets to cast Miracle (I assume that's what he has) isn't likely to be pulling War Hulk + Hulking Hurler cheese. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[Jack_Simth]

I see.

Now I'm trying to think here. A single Persisted Giant Size only lasts 24 hours.

Is it really worth it? A build that gets to cast Miracle (I assume that's what he has) isn't likely to be pulling War Hulk + Hulking Hurler cheese. Maybe I'm wrong though.

You're right. It lasts exactly 24 hours.

A Cleric can re-cast spells every day, assuming they get their 1 hour of prayer in there somewhere.

You cast it on day N, and it lasts until day N+1. As you can cast it N*some number times in N days, you're set.

Sorta like how a Wizard might use an extended Mage Armor at level 12.

[Ernir]

Maybe there's some application for Giant Size I'm not seeing?

Smashing Tokyo. It's just not the same if you aren't colossal.


(OK, seriously, the stat increases and reach are nice in combat. Whether it's worth it depends on whether you can find something better to use it for, and how many Miracles you can pump out per day, I guess.)

[PhoenixRivers]

I generally prefer going the Bloodstorm Blade route, but I've seen a good gestalt build using a similar Strat.

Orc Cleric 20 // Warblade 5 / Bloodstorm Blade 10 / Hulking Hurler 5

Lotta good range applications, and at level 21, you get the epic feat that extends your 1st range increment to (line of sight), and you use BSB's capstone to unleash hell across a 10 mile hemisphere of pain.