D&D 2-3.5ed Spell Confusion

[Thames]

In 2nd ed there was a spell called enlarge and it was reversable; now in 3rd there are 2 spells enlarge person and reduce person which do not meet the 2nd editon's equivalent in power even when combined.

Does anyone know why this change was made? and would it be broken to change it back?

The same deal is with 2ed spell affect normal flames which was broken to smaller spells.

Finally the powers in the psions repoitaire seem to match some of the 2ed wizard spells better than the 3ed wizard's does. This seems curious.

[jmbrown]

The reason there are reversible spells is because of limited spellcasting. 37 spells in AD&D at level 20 as opposed to 40 in 3E (not counting cantrips) and you don't get bonus spells for high intelligence. Reversible was a way of giving lower level wizards more options without having to memorize multiple things. It was also a shortened way of knowing which spells countered another.

As for the power, a design aspect of AD&D was that magic scaled. A 20th level wizard casting reduce person could literally turn the largest dragon into the size of an action figure making it a viable option at any level. Would it break 3E? Hell yes.

[LibraryOgre]

Actually, JM, you had to memorize the spell or its reverse... you didn't pick at the time of casting.

[Haven]

Actually, JM, you had to memorize the spell or its reverse... you didn't pick at the time of casting.

Yeah, this.

I thought "reversible spells" were interesting...I forget why it was changed, but I guess because of the changes in balance that JM mentions.

Come to think of it, maybe it has something to do with the spontaneous CXW/IXW that clerics get in 3rd: in 2e, it was "Cure Light Wounds" that could be reversed into "Cause Light Wounds".

[Zombimode]

Its not even clear if you actually CAN choose during preperation, or rather reversable spells are actually two spells which must be learned seperatly.
The rules are not clear on that matter, but I always assumed the later.

[Darrin]

In 2nd ed there was a spell called enlarge and it was reversable; now in 3rd there are 2 spells enlarge person and reduce person which do not meet the 2nd editon's equivalent in power even when combined.

Does anyone know why this change was made? and would it be broken to change it back?

Actually, the Enlarge and Reduce spells were both in 3.0, and were essentially carry-overs from 1E/2E. In 3.5 they were replaced with Enlarge Person and Reduce Person, and I'm guessing this is largely due to it was just too darned persnickety to calculate an object's new size, height, mass/weight, etc. in 10% increments. Too many math headaches that would bog down combat.

In 3.5, the creature sizes were much more standardized, and you could calculate a size increase/decrease, including AC modifiers, stat adjustments, and so on, much more quickly. Objects, which unless they are weapons aren't likely to have a standardized size or weight, are still too much of a math headache.

Yes, you could still use the 3.0 versions if you wish, but it involves a lot of seat-of-your-pants rulings and digging through some of the murkier sections of the rulebooks to find out if some particular object has ever been given any official dimensions or weight.

The same deal is with 2ed spell affect normal flames which was broken to smaller spells.

I believe in 3.0 that got folded into Pyrotechnics.

Finally the powers in the psions repoitaire seem to match some of the 2ed wizard spells better than the 3ed wizard's does. This seems curious.

Probably because the 3.5 version of psionics was a much more balanced point-based spellcasting system that manages to scale itself up without resorting to the klunky metamagic mess.

[jmbrown]

Actually, JM, you had to memorize the spell or its reverse... you didn't pick at the time of casting.

15 years of doing it wrong. Someone on the forums once said that they played AD&D 1E for 30 years and still found rules they overlooked.

[Matthew]

15 years of doing it wrong. Someone on the forums once said that they played AD&D 1E for 30 years and still found rules they overlooked.

All the time.