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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Pit fiends (and other epic creatures)

    "Through me the way into the suffering city,
    Through me the way to the eternal pain,
    Through me the way that runs among the lost.

    Justice urged on my high artificer;
    My maker was divine authority,
    The highest wisdom, and the primal love.

    Before me nothing but eternal things were made,
    And I endure eternally.
    Abandon every hope, ye who enter here."


    Large Outsider (Devil, Evil, Extraplanar, Lawful)
    Hit Dice: 18d8+144 (225 hp)
    Initiative: +12
    Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares), fly 60 ft. (average)
    Armor Class: 40 (-1 size, +8 Dex, +23 natural), touch 17, flat-footed 32
    Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+35
    Attack: Claw +30 melee (2d8+13)
    Full Attack: 2 claws +30 melee (2d8 + 13) and bite +28 melee (4d6 + 6 plus poison plus disease) and 2 wings +28 melee (2d6 + 6) and tail slap +28 melee (2d8 + 6 plus constrict)
    Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
    Special Attacks: Constrict 2d8+26, disease, fear aura, improved grab, spell-like abilities, summon devil
    Special Qualities: Damage reduction 15/chaotic, good and silver, immunity to fire and poison, resistance to acid 10 and cold 10, regeneration 9, see in darkness, spell resistance 32, telepathy 100 ft.
    Saves: Fort +19, Ref +19, Will +21
    Abilities: Str 37, Dex 27, Con 27, Int 27, Wis 27, Cha 27
    Skills: Acrobatics +29, Bluff +29, Climb +34, Diplomacy +29, Disguise +29 (+31 when acting), Intimidate +29, Knowledge (arcana) +29, Knowledge (the Planes) +29, Knowledge (religion) +29, Linguistics +29, Perception +29, Sense Motive +29, Spellcraft +29, Stealth +29, Survival +29 (+31 on other planes, +31 when tracking)
    Feats: Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Fly-By Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Multiattack, Power Attack, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (fireball)
    Environment: Hell, The Nine Circles of Perdition
    Organization: Solitary, pair, team (3-4), or troupe (1-2 pit fiends, 2-5 horned devils, and 2-5 barbed devils)
    Challenge Rating: 20
    Treasure: Standard coins; double goods; standard items
    Alignment: Always Lawful Evil
    Advancement: 19—36 HD (Large); 37—54 HD (Huge)
    Level Adjustment: —

    To many across the boundless Realities, it is the pit fiends that encapsulate all that is most represented by Perdition; immense physical strength and brilliance of intellect.
    They deprave at the pinnacle of devildom, and are the greatest nondivine devils that exist within the Stinking Maw; eternally scheming and plotting to drag the arrogant and the wise to an odious fate, to be cast within the Darkest Pit, that their mortal forms be rent through with spiked chains and milestones placed around their souls, to forever wallow in domination and torment.

    Pit fiends, despite what some scholars might contend, never lie; that is, they never explicitly lie. Unlike daemons, whose belief in their own lies is so unassailable that their every utterance is truth and demons who simply wish to rip your head off and defecate upon your soul, pit fiends and devils never speak lies. What the foolish and the unwary do not realise is that they also never speak the whole truth; the reality of what is said must be carefully sifted from the detritus of misinformation and half-truths. To the pit fiend and other devils, lies are simply not good business; infernal contracts after all are more palatable to and by mortals if each holds a kernel of truth, no matter how oblique.

    Mortal and immortal scholars alike are divided over the origin of pit fiends. Some sages hold to the position that they were not the first sentients to walk upon the blasted barrens of the Ninefold Realm, that their very existence is owed to the divine blood spilt necessary to create them.
    As the Overlord separately violently from the Triune Ouroboros, His tremendous descent into the Depths Below created the Inverted Mountain, hideously wounding Him, his sanguinous wounds dripping vile ichor from whence arose a foul and malignant sentience; the very first pit fiends.

    Other loremasters have gone so far as to suggest that Perdition always existed, that the pit fiends always were. That the Lords of Perdition, the Hellspawn, all others were interlopers; that the first primordial devil race had been disposed so long ago, that not even the memories of immortals extended to them.

    Still others point to the fact that everything in Hell is not only decided through power but more importantly station. That to achieve the height of the pit fiend means that a gelugon must be cast within the Lake of Fire and Brimstone for 999 days.

    Pit fiends have forms that are more or less perfectly symmetrical, as is expected for the Pit. They appear monstrous, yet there is a gothic beauty to them; rippling muscles, tremendous wings that wrap around them like a grotesque cloak, wreathed in flames, a tail that dances like a serpent behind them. A pit fiend is 12 feet tall and weighs 999 pounds. Only the most powerful of mortals would dare stand against one.
    Occasionally, pit fiends may be armed with thorny rods of domination; that deal damage as a great club and cast dominate monster 3/day.

    Combat

    Constrict (Ex): A pit fiend deals 2d8+26 points of damage with a successful grapple check.

    Disease (Su): A creature struck by a pit fiend's bite attack must succeed on a DC 27 Fortitude save or be infected with a vile disease known as devil chills (incubation period 1d4 days, damage 1d4 Str). The save DC is Constitution-based.

    Fear Aura (Su): A pit fiend can radiate a 20-foot-radius fear aura as a free action. A creature in the area must succeed on a DC 27 Will save or be affected as though by a fear spell (caster level 18th) for 18 rounds. A creature that successfully saves cannot be affected again by the same pit fiend's aura for 24 hours. Other devils are immune to the aura. The save DC is Charisma-based.

    Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a pit fiend must hit with its tail slap attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

    Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 27, initial damage 3 Con, secondary damage death. The save DC is Constitution-based.

    Spell-Like Abilities: At will—animate dead, blasphemy, create undead, charm monster, create undead, desecrate, detect good, detect magic, fireball, greater dispel magic, greater invisibility, greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), magic circle against good, mass hold monster, persistent image, polymorph, power word stun, produce flame, pyrotechnics, suggestion, unhallow, unholy aura, wall of fire; 1/day—meteor swarm, symbol of pain. Caster level 18th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.
    Once per year a pit fiend can use wish as the spell (caster level 20th).

    Summon Devil (Sp): Twice per day a pit fiend can automatically summon 9 lemures, 2 bone devils, or bearded devils, or 1 erinyes, horned devil, or ice devil. This ability is the equivalent of an 8th-level spell.

    Regeneration (Ex): A pit fiend takes normal damage from chaotic-aligned, good-aligned silvered weapons, and from spells or effects with the good descriptor.
    To see the world in a grain of sand
    and Heaven in a wild flower
    To hold infinity in the palm of your hand
    and eternity in an hour.

    - William Blake, Auguries of Innocence

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Milskidasith's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pit fiends (and other epic creatures)

    Ok, what are we supposed to discuss? The only things I can say to this is A: this isn't homebrew, this is a direct copy of an existing creature, B: pit fiends are not epic, and C: It's illegal to reprint the fluff here (if this is the fluff from the MM, I don't have it on hand.)

    Anyway, if the fluff is new, then you didn't need to reprint the pit fiend's statblock.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2009-12-05 at 10:09 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Beholder

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    Default Re: Pit fiends (and other epic creatures)

    I don't recognize this fluff - is this new fluff that you're writing? I can't tell.

    Anyway - I like this translation of the Gate of Hell:

    I am the way into the city of woe
    I am the way to a forsaken people
    I am the way into eternal sorrow.
    Sacred justice moved my architect.
    I was raised here by divine omnipotence,
    primordial love and ultimate intellect.
    Only those elements time cannot wear
    were made before me, and beyond time I stand.
    Abandon all hope, ye who enter here!
    RIP Tasha, April 1986 to November 25th, 2008. 22 years and 7 months of being the best kitty ever. You will be missed forever.

    RIP Finney Jr., June 1998 to March 18, 2011. Nearly 13 years of being the best goldfish ever. You, as with Tasha, will be missed forever.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pit fiends (and other epic creatures)

    Milskidasith: What I meant by my usage of epic is not per the CR definition.
    And your comment about it being a direct copy makes me wonder whether or not you actually bothered to read it in its entirety.
    Also, please advise where I "reprinted the fluff."

    Obrysii: Yes :), it is new fluff; hope you like/liked it!
    And I'm familiar with that translation of the Canto; I was also involved with that project.
    Last edited by Amiel; 2009-12-05 at 10:10 AM.
    To see the world in a grain of sand
    and Heaven in a wild flower
    To hold infinity in the palm of your hand
    and eternity in an hour.

    - William Blake, Auguries of Innocence

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    Default Re: Pit fiends (and other epic creatures)

    As I edited, I do not have my books on hand, so I had no clue if the fluff was a copy or not. Considering everything else was, and you didn't say anything about the fact you were rewriting the fluff, I had no clue why you even posted.

    Even now, I don't understand why you didn't just post the fluff without reprinting the crunch.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pit fiends (and other epic creatures)

    Um, maybe you should familiarise yourself with the original pit fiend? You have already admitted to ignorance, but it helps if you actually know of the creature before making such accusations.
    Last edited by Amiel; 2009-12-05 at 10:16 AM.
    To see the world in a grain of sand
    and Heaven in a wild flower
    To hold infinity in the palm of your hand
    and eternity in an hour.

    - William Blake, Auguries of Innocence

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    Default Re: Pit fiends (and other epic creatures)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amiel View Post
    Um, maybe you should familiarise yourself with the original pit fiend?
    Please tell me the difference between yours and theirs. Yours uses the pathfinder skill system, I believe, and has DR to good, chaotic, and silver (as opposed to just good and silver) but I see no changes that warrant reprinting everything else.

    EDIT: And you increased the number of Lemures it can summon, which does pretty much nothing because at CR 20, more CR 1 summons don't help.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2009-12-05 at 10:18 AM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pit fiends (and other epic creatures)

    I would advise you to read it for one; I mean not just skim reading it but actually perusing it.
    To see the world in a grain of sand
    and Heaven in a wild flower
    To hold infinity in the palm of your hand
    and eternity in an hour.

    - William Blake, Auguries of Innocence

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    Default Re: Pit fiends (and other epic creatures)

    I have read it. The stat block is nearly identical to the pit fiends. Look at the link you posted, please. As best as I can tell, you slightly altered the DR and the summon ability, and used a different skill system than 3.5, but other than that the crunch is identical. EDIT: And it got more feats, so pathfinder, I guess?
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2009-12-05 at 10:23 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pit fiends (and other epic creatures)

    *facepalm*

    I don't know whether there is difficulty in seeing the subtle differences or whether you are determined to find fault where there is none, I really can't tell.
    I would definitely like constructive criticism, but what you have written hasn't been constructive at all.

    And it is nearly identical now as opposed to "considering everything else was a copy" or "this is a direct copy of an existing creature"?


    If I must handhold you;
    Changes at DR, regeneration, ability score increase, more feats, different skills system, changes to duration of fear aura, changes to damage dealt by poison, more spell-likes, increase to summons, possessing thorny rods of domination, the big changes are at flavor/fluff


    Regarding more summons, FYI, they actually do serve to allow the stated CR to remain where it should be, boost them; but they actually help rather a fair bit, more than a fair bit even. More summons means that there are more obstacles and thus more rounds are spent defeating the summoned monsters. All the more time for the pit fiend to either cast spell-likes, maneuver to a more strategic position, utilise environmental barriers or effects, use the summons as meatshields, roadblocks, and so on and so forth.


    Be extra careful when you falsely and blatantly accuse others of plagiarisation.
    Last edited by Amiel; 2009-12-05 at 11:05 AM.
    To see the world in a grain of sand
    and Heaven in a wild flower
    To hold infinity in the palm of your hand
    and eternity in an hour.

    - William Blake, Auguries of Innocence

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Djinn_in_Tonic's Avatar

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    Default Re: Pit fiends (and other epic creatures)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amiel View Post
    Be extra careful when you falsely and blatantly accuse others of plagiarisation.
    I'll be honest...I didn't notice those changes either. If you're revising an existing monster, it helps to say so at the beginning of your post, especially when the changes aren't that major (not to say that you didn't change things, but it's still an out-of-the-box Pit Fiend with some new rims, under-carriage lights, a new engine, and tinted windows).

    A better way of handling it would have been to politely point out the changes right away. That said, you've definitely made it slightly more powerful, but I'm not sure it's enough that I personally would call it homebrew...a slight house-ruling, definitely, but I'm not blown away.

    In short, I see nothing to criticize, but nothing to commend either. It's just not enough of a change to say anything about other than "yep, that's a stronger Pit Fiend."
    Last edited by Djinn_in_Tonic; 2009-12-05 at 12:25 PM.

    Ingredients

    2oz Djinn
    5oz Water
    1 Lime Wedge


    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

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    Default Re: Pit fiends (and other epic creatures)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amiel View Post

    I don't know whether there is difficulty in seeing the subtle differences or whether you are determined to find fault where there is none, I really can't tell.
    Not that it is a fault with the fiend itself, but when you don't mention what you altered and instead post a statblock with over half of it exactly the same and under half of it very slightly changed, it's very hard to tell. You could clarify; homebrew is supposed to create good things together, not have you insult posters when they don't notice incredibly small changes.

    I would definitely like constructive criticism, but what you have written hasn't been constructive at all.
    Get rid of everything that hasn't been changed and instead post the changes as a standalone. That way I won't have to read the fact that it's subtypes are the same, it's HP is the same, it's speed is the same, it's initiative is the same, etc.

    And it is nearly identical now as opposed to "considering everything else was a copy" or "this is a direct copy of an existing creature"?
    The direct copy was because I read up to special attacks and noticed no changes. Everything else is a copy and nearly identical are pretty much synonymous.

    Changes at DR, regeneration, ability score increase, more feats, different skills system, changes to duration of fear aura, changes to damage dealt by poison, more spell-likes, increase to summons, possessing thorny rods of domination, the big changes are at flavor/fluff
    Ok, here's how none of that actually would appear to the casual eye. The DR and regeneration are the same, but now require the weapon to be chaotic as well. The ability score increases do nothing at all. 26 in mental stats to 27 is almost unnoticable (one number changed) and doesn't even affect it's capabilities at all. The feats and skills are pathfinder (I think), so it could be assumed that's just the pathfinder pit fiend (I don't play PF). The fear aura is not changed at all; the of the spell fear at CL 18 is, in fact, 18 rounds. The poison damage is now 3 instead of 1d6, so it's just averaged. The spell likes section adds in a few weaker abilities (why animate dead when you can create dead at will?), but it's the biggest change so far. The increase to summons is just adding a 9 in front of lemures, which also screws up the grammar of that sentence. The rods of domination were in the fluff, so it isn't a statblock change.

    How can you not see how such minimal changes wouldn't be noticed? It doesn't even actually change anything combat related enough to be worth changing besides the extra SLAs. Everything else has almost no effect in combat or isn't even a change.


    Regarding more summons, FYI, they actually do serve to allow the stated CR to remain where it should be, boost them; but they actually help rather a fair bit, more than a fair bit even.
    The stated CR of a lemure is 1. 9 lemures or 2 lemures are still no challenge to an ECL 20 party, or even an ECL 16 party.

    More summons means that there are more obstacles and thus more rounds are spent defeating the summoned monsters. All the more time for the pit fiend to either cast spell-likes, maneuver to a more strategic position, utilise environmental barriers or effects, use the summons as meatshields, roadblocks, and so on and so forth.
    Why would any of those work? Lemures deal almost no damage at this level, cannot hit anything at this level, can be killed with any AoE at this level, and have no ability to fly at this level. They can't be meatshields, or hurt the party. In fact, I'd take all the AoOs for moving directly through their squares to reach the pit fiend, and it wouldn't even hurt (1d4 at level 16+ as a melee character? That's nothing!)

    Be extra careful when you falsely and blatantly accuse others of plagiarisation.
    It's not enough of a change to be worth considering a homebrew, though. You have given it a few more SLAs, which help a bit, and converted it to the PF skill and feat progression, which give more feats, but it's really no different than a standard fiend.

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