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  1. - Top - End - #811
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by † Dran † View Post
    Also Black Temps follow the same get up as normal marines. Wolf Claws are better then lightning claws, but do become somewhat moot if led by a Chaplin.
    Wolves have Wolf Priests. Wolf Priests give Preferred Enemy to himself and any unit he joins. His 'Preferred Enemy' is any one Unit Type in the game (page 4-5 of the rulebook). For example 'Infantry' or 'Monstrous Creature'. This is either really good or really bad. Depending on the army you face.
    There's also some tweaks to it, like knowing that 'Infantry' and 'Jump Infantry' are actually different units and the like.

    So, it's not quite the same as 're-roll To Hit vs. Everything', it's slightly toned down. Still, Preferred Enemy (Infantry) covers nearly 90% of everything you're ever likely to face.

    Wolf Priests are also Fearless, carry an Invulnerable save and are part of the Space Wolves unfair rules which means they have access to Wolf Tooth necklaces and Sagas.

    Ex.
    Wolf Priest ---------- 120 Points
    Saga of the Beastslayer, Wolf Tooth Necklace.

    ...Hits anything on 3+ regardless of WS. Has Preferred Enemy (Infantry). 'Counts As' having Preferred Enemy (T5+ models, MCs and Walkers). Is Fearless, has an Invulnerable save. Comes with a Power Weapon for free.

    Given that this guy doesn't have access to Power Fists or Claws (awesome To Hit chance is useless if you can't wound reliably) to actually go toe-to-toe with MCs. Another option is to give him the Saga that gives him Eternal Warrior instead of Preferred Enemy (Big Stuff). And Melta Bombs.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2010-01-12 at 02:32 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #812
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Given that this guy doesn't have access to Power Fists or Claws (awesome To Hit chance is useless if you can't wound reliably) to actually go toe-to-toe with MCs. Another option is to give him the Saga that gives him Eternal Warrior instead of Preferred Enemy (Big Stuff). And Melta Bombs.
    That'd work well against Dreadnoughts and other walkers, but if you're suggesting that Melta Bombs work against MCs, they don't. The grenade rules are on pg. 63 under the vehicle section.

  3. - Top - End - #813
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    quick question: Can Wolf Priests lead Sky Claws?

  4. - Top - End - #814
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by DranWork View Post
    quick question: Can Wolf Priests lead Sky Claws?
    Affirmative.

    EDIT; A one word answer for 'Yes' that satisfies board postage rules.

    Also,

    Confirmed; The new Tyranid Synapse does not protect from Instant Death. It grants all models in range Fearless and blocks Instinctive Behaviour.

    Space Marine Power Fists kill Warrior Bugs dead.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2010-01-13 at 03:25 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #815
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Confirmed; The new Tyranid Synapse does not protect from Instant Death. It grants all models in range Fearless and blocks Instinctive Behaviour.

    Space Marine Power Fists kill Warrior Bugs dead.
    : BOOOOOOOOOO...Thog no likey new synapse...Thog sad.
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  6. - Top - End - #816
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Ive just had my nid codex arrive. Then I saw something hideous. Carnefixes, the amazing models with such a plethora of options on the sprue have now got.... 10 freakin options. That includes weapons and biomorphs. This makes me feel sick to my gut.
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  7. - Top - End - #817
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by onasuma View Post
    Ive just had my nid codex arrive. Then I saw something hideous. Carnefixes, the amazing models with such a plethora of options on the sprue have now got.... 10 freakin options. That includes weapons and biomorphs. This makes me feel sick to my gut.
    How many of those old options were ever actually used though. I only looked through the book a little bit, but from what I remember (and from facing other people with them) there were quite a few that were simply never a good choice for a carnefex and were never used. And of course some of the options which were taken virtually all the time.

    Number of options means almost nothing, what have they integrated or completely removed. How many actually useful things were removed?

  8. - Top - End - #818
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Ive used every option from the old list. They all had their uses depending on what sort of carnefix you made.
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  9. - Top - End - #819
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    How many of the options were automatically included in the carnifex though?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    About 6, but that isnt the point. I loved the customisation of the carnifix (and of the old codex in general). Now Im sure that everyone will be running pretty similar set ups within a few months.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by onasuma View Post
    About 6, but that isnt the point. I loved the customisation of the carnifix (and of the old codex in general). Now Im sure that everyone will be running pretty similar set ups within a few months.
    So what have you actually lost?

    As far as I know, even before with all the options there were about common 2 ranged carnifex designs and another 2 common close combat designs. Everyone was running pretty much the same things before anyway.

  12. - Top - End - #822
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by onasuma View Post
    About 6, but that isnt the point. I loved the customisation of the carnifix (and of the old codex in general).
    Yeah...Well, you just happen to be one of the people on the 'don't like the new Codex' side of the fence. Most people I know (even not including the GW Staff) are excited about the new Codex.

    Sure, some people's favourite (and usually overpowered) unit has been hit with the nerf stick, but, that's the point. Any decently put-together Hive Tyrant or Carnifex under the last edition was unstoppable. But, cost a lot of points.

    Like when your answer was "I use all the options." I'm a little bit surprised. Because, well, that's not a clever thing to do. Because every single point you're spending on your Carnifii is another point you're not spending on Troops. Which is why Nidzilla lists aren't viable in 5th Ed. anyway.

    ...I'm not particularly fussed over the Carnifex issue, even though I play Tyranids. Because, there's an issue of fair play involved. I know why the devs have done what they've done. Some of the options were either overpowered or underused/pointless (I've never seen anyone else use 'all the options' before, because, really, there are only two useful and points-viable Carnifex builds anyway) and so they got rid of it.

    The Carnifex has also been buffed in certain areas too. Biomorphs have been nerfed across the entire list. Carnifii just got hit the hardest because they used to have so many more (useless things) than everything else. But, I have to wonder why you're not complaining about the Hive Tyrant 'only having ten options' and/or having their Points-cost boosted so now you can't take two super-Tyrants, all games. All the time.
    Or Warriors not getting Leaping.
    Or Broodlords not being HQ so now you have to go out and spend more money because you don't even have an HQ anymore.

    Or not complaining that because Synapse no longer protects from Instant Death, even Carnifii can get killed by a Force Weapon. Although Shadow in the Warp does something about that which most good units have anyway.

    There's a whole list of things I could complain about the new 'Nid Codex...But, I don't care. Because there's lots of other things I can do now as well (like I can use Termagants now without feeling like an idiot). That's what happens in an edition change.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2010-01-13 at 05:41 PM.
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  13. - Top - End - #823
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    I ran 4 cheapo carnefixes (2 dakka, 2 stabby) and then 2 tooled up fexes. Across all 6, I used every option avaliable.

    Im sore about the carnefix issue because of how much I loved the old carnefix, otherwise I wouldnt have 6. Im also annoyed that now a load of the carnefix kit is just decoration. Its the same reason i was pissed when aun'shi was cut from the tau list - I just love some models too much.

    There is LOADS i love with the new dex, Im already planning a pyrovore + tevigon defensive squad to hide behind trees (its not like there are any MC's I can use that slot for anyway) and I equally love the doom, the parasite and alpha warriors. I just liked carnefixes because of all the customisation avaliable (thats what drew me to nids in the first place) but now most of that is gone, and thus I am.

    so, Iron hands codex eh?
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  14. - Top - End - #824
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by onasuma View Post
    I ran 4 cheapo carnefixes (2 dakka, 2 stabby) and then 2 tooled up fexes. Across all 6, I used every option avaliable.
    As I said, you'd be the only person I can think of who has done that.

    so, Iron hands codex eh?
    Are you ironically saying "...just like the Space Marine Codex, anyone who liked Iron Hands got stooged..."

    Or is there an upcoming Codex I don't know about yet?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by IthilanorStPete View Post
    I was messing around with making some lists earlier, and wanted feedback on this Fast Attack-oriented 1500 pt. SM list:

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    HQ
    Captain
    -2*Lightning Claws
    -Artificer Armor
    -Melta Bombs
    -Bike
    185 pts.

    Chaplain
    -Plasma Pistol
    -Melta Bombs
    -Bike
    135 pts.

    Troops
    Bike Squad w/ 8 SM Bikers and Attack Bike
    -Sgt: Power weapon, melta bombs
    -Two bikers: Meltaguns
    -Attack bike: Multi-melta
    305 pts.

    Bike Squad w/ 8 SM Bikers and Attack Bike
    -Sgt: Power weapon, melta bombs
    -Two bikers: Flamers
    285 pts.

    Fast Attack
    Land Speeder Squad (2 speeders)
    -Both speeders: Assault Cannon
    230 pts.

    Vanguard Veterans (6 models)
    -All models: Power weapons & Melta bombs
    250 pts.

    (dedicated transport)
    Razorback
    -Lascannon and twin-linked plasma gun
    -Extra armor
    90 pts.


    How does this look?
    Anyone want to divert themselves from Tyranid edition wars and give me some feedback?
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  16. - Top - End - #826
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Are you ironically saying "...just like the Space Marine Codex, anyone who liked Iron Hands got stooged..."

    Or is there an upcoming Codex I don't know about yet?
    I was wondering the same thing.
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  17. - Top - End - #827
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Anyone want to divert themselves from Tyranid edition wars and give me some feedback?
    No probs. Fast Attack Space Marines are my specialty.

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    I also cleaned up formatting for your list.

    Quote Originally Posted by IthilanorStPete View Post
    HQ
    Captain
    Lightning Claws, Artificer Armor, Melta Bombs, Bike
    185
    Personally I like a Relic Blade rather than Lightning Claws. But, that's me.

    Chaplain
    Plasma Pistol, Melta Bombs, Bike
    135 pts.
    Drop the Plasma Pistol. It gets one, maybe two shots a game. With a chance to deal yourself a wound. It's not worth the points. You might also want to swap the Bike for a Jump Pack.

    Troops
    Bike Squad (x8) and Attack Bike
    x2 Meltaguns
    Sergeant with Power weapon and melta bombs
    Attack bike: Multi-melta
    305 pts.
    Drop the Melta Bombs on the Sergeant. In a squad like this he doesn't need them.

    Bike Squad (x8) and Attack Bike
    x2 Flamers
    Sergeant with Power weapon and melta bombs
    285 pts.
    The Attack Bike has a Heavy Bolter, right? Otherwise, I don't know what you need the Flamers for, as Twin-Linked Relentless Bolters should cut down hordes easily enough. Bikes don't really need Flamers. This squad also has no business being anywhere near vehicles, let alone Assaulting them. Drop the Melta Bombs.

    Land Speeder Squad (2 speeders)
    x2 Assault Cannons
    230 pts.
    If you have FO Slots to spare, Land Speeders should always be taken as separate units. Always. Also, I think you've got the points wrong?

    Vanguard Veterans (6 models)
    Power weapons & Melta bombs
    250 pts.
    ACK! No! Vanguard are the WORST. Made especially bad as you're not using Jump Packs and their special rule. Swap this for a regular Assault Squad with x2 Flamers and a Sergeant with {Power Weapon or Lightning Claw/s} and Melta Bombs.

    So...
    • You may want to consider dropping the Flamers from the Bikes if you can find the points for something else.
    • Far too many models have Melta Bombs. The list needs more Power Fists or Lightning Claws as Melta Bombs don't work on MCs.
    • Land Speeders should be taken as separate units. That way they don't have to both shoot at the same target, but they can anyway. But, your opponent has to split his fire between the two of them. It also means in certain deployment styles you can split them if you want.
    • Vanguard are the terribadness. Especially if you don't give them Jump Packs.
    • Replace Vanguard with a regular Assault Squad. Give the Sergeant Lightning Claws. If you do this, trade the Chaplain's Bike for a Jump Pack. This unit will proceed to kill at least a quarter of your opponent's army every game (Imperial Guard not included).
    • Dropping the Razorback, the Chaplain's Plasma Pistol, a couple of sets of Melta Bombs (and Flamers?) and having a few (or more) points left over from changing the Vanguard into regular Assault Marines gives you enough points for a Vindicator, or a squad of Devastators. Which your list is sorely lacking.
    • Or a Thunderfire Cannon. Or a Dreadnought (or two?). +/- Drop Pods.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2010-01-13 at 08:08 PM.
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  18. - Top - End - #828
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Cheesegear did a bang up job of fixing up my Blood Angels list, IthilanorStPete(it's on page 2-3 of this thread) which is very, very fast attack based to the point of no infantry heavy weapons and over 50% of my troops having jump packs so you may want to take a look at that.

    And in a related note, in answer to the person who asked about if anyone was annoyed about there being a new Blood Angel's Codex then yes, I would like to raise my hand now, right after I got my hands on a list I like then a new Codex appears, rendering it pointless starting on this until I've had a squint at it to make sure I'm still legal.

    Oh, I'm sure there won't be any issues but, well, if the old codex was still completely good then they wouldn't need to make a whole new book now, would they ? Oh, sorry, GW and £ but still... It's an inconvenience.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Nah, it was just wishful thinking on my part.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    So, the new nid list that Ive been working on:

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    Shooty nid list
    Tyranid prime (80), 2 boneswords + devourer (10)

    5 warriors (150), 2 boneswords + devourer (50)
    20 termagaunts + devourers (200), mycetic spore (40)
    20 termagaunts + devourers (200), mycetic spore (40)
    Tevigon (160) + cluster spines (0)

    3 hive guard (150)
    3 hive guard (150)
    3 zoanthropes (180)

    2 biovores


    Basic plan is the tevigon sits back with the hive guard, zoanthropes and biovores (preferablly behind some cover) and spawns speed bumps while the warriors and gaunts get in up close and have 60 S4 shots per unit on the turn they deep strike.

    Comments? Critisms? Complaints?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    So far I've been playing against a friend using an army borrowed from his brother, but now I'm thinking of starting my own army.

    I've been looking into chaos marines and I'm wondering how this would be for a 500 points army

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    deamon prince /w mark of slaanesh, Lash of Submission (135)
    5 space marines w/ meltagun (75p)
    5 noise marines, with sonic blasters (125p)
    5 havocs w/ 4 missile launchers (155)
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kzickas View Post
    So far I've been playing against a friend using an army borrowed from his brother, but now I'm thinking of starting my own army.

    I've been looking into chaos marines and I'm wondering how this would be for a 500 points army

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    deamon prince /w mark of slaanesh, Lash of Submission (135)
    5 space marines w/ meltagun (75p)
    5 noise marines, with sonic blasters (125p)
    5 havocs w/ 4 missile launchers (155)
    At only 500 points, you'll find your Havocs aren't all that effective, at least in my experience, and that there's much better things to put your points into, like a small squad of Berserkers, another squad of CSM, or even another unit of Noise Marines.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by DCGFTW View Post
    At only 500 points, you'll find your Havocs aren't all that effective, at least in my experience, and that there's much better things to put your points into, like a small squad of Berserkers, another squad of CSM, or even another unit of Noise Marines.
    I'm not convinced. I'm going to be playing an eldar player who likes to use wraithguard+farseer using the armor reroll power. That means I'm going to get hit with the wraithcannons at least once (unless I use LoS, but if the farseer has runes of warding that's basically impossible) losing some models before even closing and in cc thanks to their huge tougness and low armour save that they reroll they're going to be really hard to kill.

    I also have to be prepared for banshees in a transport. I don't really fancy sending berserkers against banshee given thair comparative cost and the banshees' powerweapons. and I probably won't get to either since I have no other way to deal with their fast transports running circles around me. So it seems better to have some high strenght AP3 ranged weapons instead
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    You're expecting Banshees in a transport or a sizable enough unit of Wraithguard to matter at 500 points...? Are you allowing your opponent to ignore Force-Org?

    Couple other things, as well...

    I always recommend taking Wings on Daemon Princes, simply because of how cheap they are for their effect. For 20 points, you count as Jump Infantry, which is awesome for a MC. Your Daemon Prince is the deadliest thing you have on the board, and should be able to handle anything except a unit of 8+ Howling Banshees in CC, even a 5-man squad of Wraithguard, as well as bust up any Wave Serpents rather reliably. So you want to make sure he can reliably get into CC without taking too much Dakka.

    A 5-man Marine squad with a melta-gun is 85 points, not 75 points.
    Last edited by Arcanoi; 2010-01-14 at 05:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by DCGFTW View Post
    You're expecting Banshees in a transport AND a sizable enough unit of Wraithguard to matter at 500 points...? Are you allowing your opponent to ignore Force-Org?
    I'm expecting either. But it's not impossible that I might see both, don't think it would work very well with so few points though. If he doesn't use wraithguards then he'll probably go with Avatar plus dire avangers on foot and howling banshees in a transport. or maybe striking scorpions on foot and a fireprism. I still feel that I need some high strenght weapons

    Edit: How would it work if I replaced the havocs with a bike squad with melta guns?
    Last edited by Kzickas; 2010-01-14 at 05:45 PM.
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  26. - Top - End - #836
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kzickas View Post
    I'm expecting either. But it's not impossible that I might see both, don't think it would work very well with so few points though. If he doesn't use wraithguards then he'll probably go with Avatar plus dire avangers on foot and howling banshees in a transport. or maybe striking scorpions on foot and a fireprism. I still feel that I need some high strenght weapons
    Well, your Daemon Prince is a Strength 6 weapon that rolls 2d6 for armor penetration and ignores armor saves. If you really want high-strength weapons, you could take Autocannons. Str 7 AP4, which will still AP and instant-death Banshees, can still AP Wave Serpents and Fire Prisms, and fire twice as many shots as Krak Missile Launchers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kzickas View Post
    I'm expecting either. But it's not impossible that I might see both, don't think it would work very well with so few points though. If he doesn't use wraithguards then he'll probably go with Avatar plus dire avangers on foot and howling banshees in a transport. or maybe striking scorpions on foot and a fireprism. I still feel that I need some high strenght weapons

    Edit: How would it work if I replaced the havocs with a bike squad with melta guns?
    If you're expecting to see an Avatar, especially in a low points game, don't waste your points on Melta weapons. Avatars are immune to Melta weapons.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    I'm a lil hacked off about the new nid dex...mostly because I was going to start nids to move away from my (overly) gunny SM army...

    Still, 'gaunts and 'stealers for all

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by DCGFTW View Post
    Well, your Daemon Prince is a Strength 6 weapon that rolls 2d6 for armor penetration and ignores armor saves. If you really want high-strength weapons, you could take Autocannons. Str 7 AP4, which will still AP and instant-death Banshees, can still AP Wave Serpents and Fire Prisms, and fire twice as many shots as Krak Missile Launchers.
    Right, but that leaves me in really hot water if he takes a squad of wraithguard instead. With a 3+ armor save that get's rerolled every wound has a 8/9 chance of being saved. If I've done my math right he'll on avarage take 0.4 wounds per round of being shot at by the auto cannons, which isn't going to bring them down any time soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by MountainKing View Post
    If you're expecting to see an Avatar, especially in a low points game, don't waste your points on Melta weapons. Avatars are immune to Melta weapons.
    I know but he might not take it. and I feel quite confident I can take down the avatar without the bikes. Shooting him and the squad he's attached to with the noise marines while using LoS to try to keep them away will hopefully mean that by the time it comes to melee I'll have enough of an advantage to kill it.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tactics IV - The Enemy of Your Enemy is Still Your Enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferreon View Post
    I'm a lil hacked off about the new nid dex...mostly because I was going to start nids to move away from my (overly) gunny SM army...

    Still, 'gaunts and 'stealers for all
    And most importantly, power weapon weilding warriors as troops.
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