Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 12 of 31 FirstFirst ... 2345678910111213141516171819202122 ... LastLast
Results 331 to 360 of 901
  1. - Top - End - #331
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Boston, MA

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    One thing we may need to think about also is modifying some of the homebrew so they interact in a logical fashion. Much of the homebrew has been made independent of each other. Thus, for example, the Ebon Phoenix Mage, Crusader of Death, and Holy Deathless one should likely have access to The Narrow Bridge as a discipline (possibly having to give up another discipline option at first level if they chose to do so). Similarly, Eldritch Blademaster and Eldritch Knight(Redux) maybe should have access to Solaris Arcanum. There are likely other examples of this sort where classes, PrCs and disciplines were made separately but the fluff strongly suggests certain options.

  2. - Top - End - #332
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Several of the PrCs (including Assassin and Sublime Form Master) are missing their author listings in the Archive thread. Don't know why that is PARTICULARLY useful information to list with each one, but things started that way, so there was probably a good reason.


    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
    One thing we may need to think about also is modifying some of the homebrew so they interact in a logical fashion. Much of the homebrew has been made independent of each other. Thus, for example, the Ebon Phoenix Mage, Crusader of Death, and Holy Deathless one should likely have access to The Narrow Bridge as a discipline (possibly having to give up another discipline option at first level if they chose to do so). Similarly, Eldritch Blademaster and Eldritch Knight(Redux) maybe should have access to Solaris Arcanum. There are likely other examples of this sort where classes, PrCs and disciplines were made separately but the fluff strongly suggests certain options.
    I was already planning to look through the base classes and PrCs and see which ones would be reasonable fits to allow them to substitute in Falling Anvil.

    A daunting task, due to Krimm's prolifigacy, but it should be possible.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-01-20 at 12:09 AM.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  3. - Top - End - #333
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    I actually had it that way in the beginning just so I could remember who to PM, that was it.

  4. - Top - End - #334
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    dspeyer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Submitting my own PrCs for inclusions:

    Student of Nine Claws (for monsters, especially dragons)
    Shadowstalker (stealthy, shadow-hand)
    Artmage (arcane)
    Pragmatist (mundane and defensive). I'm still looking for a better name for this one, but the class is done.

    elliott20: are you willing to be the central point that organizes everything? It's probably going to be a huge amount of work. If not, perhaps we should do the early organization on a wiki.

  5. - Top - End - #335
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    While I don't mind doing the central organization, I know that these projects often work entirely off of momentum, and for someone who has a pretty tight schedule at the moment, my updating speed might not be quite satisfactory.

    So, here's the question. If you guys feel that I'm still giving you satisfactory work speed, I can keep doing what I'm doing and just try to get it all together. If not, we can try to find another platform to do the organization so that we don't run out of steam.

    At the moment, I have a bit of the material copied onto word docs that is not yet organized. My goal is to get all the material like disciplines and maneuvers organized in a fashion that would not be unlike the SRD, and with that, have the relationship chart we created earlier in there, as well as make sure the fluff all hangs together.

    As Joshua and DracoDei pointed out, one of the big things to get it all integrated together is to start tying the disciplines in with the existing base classes and such. So that will be on the agenda as well.

  6. - Top - End - #336
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    dspeyer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    So far I'd say you've been doing great. I looked at the scale of it and I'm worried you'll burn out, though. We're a lot bigger than the original ToB, and that had a team of about 30 (to be fair, half of those were artists).

    Speaking of scale, how are we going to handle making homebrew schools available or not to homebrew classes? We've got about 50 schools and about 100 classes, and making 5000 separate decisions is somewhat dubious. I would suggest for each class listing the default schools it can access (usually all from ToB), but for schools establishing a rule about which classes can access it and how. For example, my own Knowing Heart school might be available as an alternate to any class with access to Shadow Hand and Setting Sun, and the school neglected to gain it must be neither of those. Does that sound workable to other school authors?

  7. - Top - End - #337
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by dspeyer View Post
    So far I'd say you've been doing great. I looked at the scale of it and I'm worried you'll burn out, though. We're a lot bigger than the original ToB, and that had a team of about 30 (to be fair, half of those were artists).

    Speaking of scale, how are we going to handle making homebrew schools available or not to homebrew classes? We've got about 50 schools and about 100 classes, and making 5000 separate decisions is somewhat dubious. I would suggest for each class listing the default schools it can access (usually all from ToB), but for schools establishing a rule about which classes can access it and how. For example, my own Knowing Heart school might be available as an alternate to any class with access to Shadow Hand and Setting Sun, and the school neglected to gain it must be neither of those. Does that sound workable to other school authors?
    Well, at the moment, we have TD1's rule about adding new disciplines. basically, it's the whole 1000 xp, find a master who can teach you sort of deal. But also, you can start off with it by just replacing a discipline available to your class with the one you want.

    Would we want to a system where replacing is far more restricting? well, I wouldn't mind, but at the moment, my gut instinct tells me something like this would generate a bit of work. (i.e. all the disciplines need to be charted to WHAT they can replace) While not a lot individually, that's still a lot when we factor in over 50 different disciplines and base classes.

    I say we put this out in the open for the team to decide.

  8. - Top - End - #338
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    I don't think it makes sense for every class to have access to every discipline (even by substitution). Otherwise you might as well say "pick any X disciplines".
    A lot of people took at least some of the homebrew disciplines into account when designing their homebrew classes and PrCs, which means that they probably rejected at least some of the others.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-01-21 at 02:06 AM.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  9. - Top - End - #339
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    well, the quick and dirty way of doing this would be to have everyone's discipline draw off of the base 9, and then have the disciplines themselves have a note on what they can replace. That's a quick and dirty way, but it's not quite there, I think.

    If the authors are all willing to go back to their base classes, and physically fill in what they think they should get, fantastic. I think some of the base classes have already been written in this fashion, which is good.

  10. - Top - End - #340
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    So far, I've used the easiest way in my games and just went "choose X schools which make sense for your character".
    A suggestion, perhaps: group schools by "themes", such as "chaotic", "lawful", "dark magic", "fiendish" and so on, and restrict initiators to one or two themes?
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
    Après le monde - le gris; après le gris - le monde de nouveau.
    "

  11. - Top - End - #341
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    dspeyer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    It seems like we really need to characterize the schools. It's pretty overwhelming for one person, so I set up a google spreadsheet with all the schools. It should be world-editable. Please head on over and fill in a few. Especially please fill in your own, which is much faster and a little more accurate than other people filling in yours.

    Feel free to add rows or columns as needed.

  12. - Top - End - #342
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Have done a little work. Most of it was with Falling Anvil of course. Created a new sheet for those who are feeling ambitious. Just use Yes, No, and leave anything else blank probably. I realize that we may end up with more blanks than stuff filled in, but it can't hurt to try...
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-01-26 at 06:49 PM.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  13. - Top - End - #343
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    dspeyer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Ambitious indeed, though there are still the PrCs on top of that.

  14. - Top - End - #344
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by dspeyer View Post
    Ambitious indeed, though there are still the PrCs on top of that.
    For MOST PrCs a default rule of "Everything you had at least one maneuver of before taking the first level of this PrC" MIGHT work reasonably well. Not sure, just throwing it out there... Perhaps excluding maneuvers gained via Martial Study?


    EDIT: I have been editing merrily away at the original sheet, people should check their own disciplines to make sure I didn't make any mistakes, especially with the more subjective stuff.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-01-23 at 06:19 PM.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  15. - Top - End - #345
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Thanks to the efforts of various people, the objective parts of the table on the first page are now taken care of.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  16. - Top - End - #346
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Boston, MA

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Thanks to the efforts of various people, the objective parts of the table on the first page are now taken care of.
    Sorry, where's the table again? I don't see it on the first page.

  17. - Top - End - #347
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    The spreadsheet/tables in question are HERE.

    EDIT: Trying to figure out where Falling Anvil might fit in with the homebrew base-classes.

    MARTIAL SOUL: This is a PrC, not a base class, so I deleted it from the 2nd page of Spread-Sheet. It needs to be moved on the Archive thread.(unless it was merely mislinked and there are two classes by that name, one base, one Prestige).

    Blade-Master: I keeping with the fact that Falling Anvil has always been around, and that these get very limited discipline access (so conflicting philosophies are unlikely), I am putting this down as "Yes".

    Fire Dancer: In honor of Taz, I am putting this down as a "Yes"...

    Marshal: They only get access to one discipline as listed... I am going to put them down for Scarlet Bravura, but not Falling Anvil.

    Marital Warrior: First thought was "No", but then I remembered the existance of "Bobobo-Bo Bo-bobo", so I am changing it to "Yes".

    Soul Disciple: Don't know enough about meld-shaping to be sure... if you could do Charlie Chaplain's hat as a meld, or maybe "Goofy Clown Shoes", then that might work...

    Swashbuckler: Fence circles around your enemies, then laugh at them when they slip on a banana peel... sounds good to me... "Yes"

    Warrior Poet: Spoony bards ahoy! "Yes"

    Warlord: With the exception of a feat, nothing about Falling Anvil is helpful with leading others. OTOH Comedy is a social phenomenon, but I am still going to put this down as "No" for the moment.

    Warmage: Well, they are supposed to get free choice, and Falling Anvil is pretty Supernatural, so "Yes".


    Sidenote: To edit a cell, rather than overwrite it, double click the cell.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-01-23 at 10:17 PM.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  18. - Top - End - #348
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    dspeyer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Here's a categorization of the disciplines. It still has an "other" category but it isn't huge. Thanks to everyone who filled in bits of the spreadsheet.

    With this to look at, I start to wonder if a few disciplines should be merged. I should probably look at them more carefully before actually proposing it.

    Mental State, Alignment or Aligned Plane

    Name Author Concept Skill Weapons Who Qualifies
    Silver Crane ErrantX Good Spot longsword, longspear, scimitar, light pick, halberd, and two bladed sword anyone, with help of a good outsider
    Far Realm Jack Mann Madness, distortion of time and space Knowledge (the planes) armor spikes, blade boot, dire flail, flail, heavy flail, spiked chain, spiked gauntlet, spiked shield, and tentacle.
    Ninefold Damnation PairO' Dice Nine Hells Intimidate glaive, whip, spiked chain, and claw
    Infinite Torment PairO' Dice Abyss Intimidate longsword, whip, spiked chain, and claw
    Dread Crown Demented One Mixed Fiends Intimidate bastard sword, battleaxe, claw, falchion, greatsword, and scythe evil crusaders and warblades
    Golden Saint Demented One Non-Lethal, anti-Evil Diplomacy dagger, longspear, longsword, sap, short sword, and unarmed strike good crusaders and swordsages
    Falling Anvil DracoDei Slapstick Comedy Bluff All improvised weapons*, bundle of dynamite, club, cannon (American Civil War era), catapult, cosh (one-handed version of the sap), great club, Maul (AKA Giant Mallet), spherical bomb, stick of dynamite, trebuchet (maybe?), sap, , and unarmed Strike Non-Lawful Only, Must be capable of great silliness on the field of battle. See second sheet for which base classes DracoDei thinks could fit.
    Quicksilver Aegis Krimm Law/Mechanus Balance greatmace, greatsword, heavy mace, longsword, and maul Crusaders, Soul Disciples, and Swordsages of a lawful alignment
    black heron errantx demonic possession, maximized damage Intimidate bastard sword, glaive, greataxe, greatsword, heavy mace, and warhammer requirement: being possessed by a demonic force
    Kaleidoscopic Dream Demented One Limbo/Chaos Tumble blade knuckles, falchion, gutter-sword, halberd, and scimitar Crusaders, Soul Disciples, and Swordsages who appreciate chaos

    Outside Power Source

    Name Author Concept Skill Weapons Who Qualifies
    Bladed Thoughts Yue Ryong Psionics, boosting physical attacks Autohypnosis Soul Weapons The Heart Shaper
    Mental Grip DaTedinator Psionics, especially telekinesis autohypnosis Unarmed Strike, Dagger, Light Hammer, Sai, Handaxe, Scimitar. psionic swordsages
    Sleeping Goddess The demented one Strike at Mind, not Body. Psionics Autohypnosis bastard sword, quarterstaff, short sword, shortspear, and unarmed strike. Plus any created by one of its maneuvers. Swordsages with a psionic power reserve
    Narrow Bridge JoshuaZ Necromancy, balance between life and death Knowledge (Religion) bastard sword, battleaxe, greataxe, scythe, unarmed strike, and whip.
    The Discipline of the Lost Lyrics Kellus Bardic Perform (oratory) or Perform (sing) rapier, longsword, longspear, and short sword
    Solaris Arcanum Golden Esque Blend of sword and spells. Spellcraft dagger, longsword, the rapier, and the shortsword, Can only learn if the character has access to at least some magical knowledge. For example, character can be a multiclass Sorcerer or have spell-like abilities.
    Untamed Essence Vox Clamantis Enhance weapon with Ki, Defend against magic, travel magically Spellcraft ((Needs to be defined)) Casting NOT required, but popular among spellswords and Jade Phoenix Mages
    Witch Razor pyrefiend Blend of warlock techniques and swordplay Spellcraft shortsword, dagger, rapier, butterfly sword and sai swordsages
    Holy Word Discipline Fax Celestis Truespeak librum, warbell, heavy warbell, quarterstaff, and heavy shield Crusader

    Energy Damage

    Name Author Concept Skill Weapons Who Qualifies
    Frozen Zephyr / Acidic Fog / Shocking Sky Krimm Blackleaf Balance/Escape Artist/Intimidate Same as Desert Wind? Any with access to Desert Wind
    Glacial Chill I_got_this_name cold, slow, debuffs, endurance Survival greataxe, battle axe, light and heavy pick, and warhammer Swordsages and Warblades.
    Placid Lake Yue Ryong slow movement, cold, debuffs Move Silently Unarmed Strike, Natural Weapons, Scimitars, Sickles, Scythes Swordsages
    Rending Scream I_got_this_name sonic damage and mental effects Intimidate claw, greataxe, maul unarmed Strike, shield bash, and slam Warblades

    Specific Weapon(s)

    Name Author Concept Skill Weapons Who Qualifies
    Steel Mountain Nero24200 Active Shield Use balance Heavy Shields, Small Shields, Shield Spikes crusaders and warblades
    Chthonic Serpent DragoonWraith Flexing Weapons, Constriction Use Rope Dire Flail, Flail, Flindbar(MM3), Heavy Flail, Kusari-Gama(DMG), Spiked Chain, Tentacle, and Whip Swordsages and Warblades
    Fool's Grip Demented One Improvised Weapons Tumble All Improvised Infiltrators and Non-organized?
    Mystic Cobra Shyftir Pole-arms Balance naginata (glaive), guisarme, halberd, ransuer, spear and long-spear Sohei Adepts, Leap Dragoons, probably warblades, ???
    Monkey Paw playswithfire Grappling Escape Artist unarmed strike, claw, scorpion claws, mancatcher and grapple swordsages
    Piercing Point Frog Dragon Spears Balance Spear, Longspear, Halberd, Ranseur, Guisarme, Glaive. Warblades


    Ranged

    Name Author Concept Skill Weapons Who Qualifies
    Iron Rain dspeyer (compiler) Rapid Archery Spot Bows, Throwing Knives, Javelins Crusaders and Warblades
    Falcon's Eye dspeyer (compiler) Precision Archery Search Bows, Crossbows, Rays Swordsages and Warblades
    Nightingale Feather dspeyer (compiler) Mystic Archery Spot Bows, Slings, Shurukin Swordsages
    Black Rain Demented One Firearms Spot firearms, as well as the concussion blaster, death ray, firewand and wandgun
    Falling Star Fax Deprecated archery Spot longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, composite shortbow, greatbow, and composite greatbow
    True Arrow I_got_this_name Deprecated archery Spot light and heavy crossbow, longbow, shortbow, and javelin


    Acquatic

    Name Author Concept Skill Weapons Who Qualifies
    Falling Wave I_got_this_name Aquatic Combat Swim bite, claw, dagger, net, and trident swordsages
    Ocean Tempest PairO' Dice Move like a Wave Swim khopesh, the trident, the whip, the spiked chain, and the flail Swordsages
    Ocean Soul Fax Celestis Swim harpoon, net, trident, and punching dagger Swordsages

    Speed

    Name Author Concept Skill Weapons Who Qualifies
    Oncoming Storm The demented one blinding speed and masterful misdirection Sleight of Hand dagger, handaxe, light pick, rapier, sai, and shortsword Swordsages and Warblades
    Leaping Gale I_got_this_name speed and air Jump whip, spiked chain, longsword, longspear, spear, and shortspear Swordsages
    Gentle Breeze Closet Skeleton speed, air listen Katana, Scimitar, War-fan and unarmed strike Swordsages and Warblades

    Mounted

    Name Author Concept Skill Weapons Who Qualifies
    Silver Pegasus I_got_this_name mounted Ride lance, longsword, heavy mace, and bastard sword Warblades and Crusaders
    Twin Spirit demented one Mounted Combat Ride lance, longsword, and scimitar Crusaders and Swordsages

    Poison

    Name Author Concept Skill Weapons Who Qualifies
    Viper Fang I_got_this_name poison and precision Heal dagger, punching dagger, short sword, and rapier swordsages
    Black Lotus Zakaroth stealth, poison, trickery Sleight of Hand dagger (any type), ninja-to and short sword Sublime Assassin

    Very Supernatural

    Name Author Concept Skill Weapons Who Qualifies
    Coin's Edge Demented One Luck Profession (Gambler) dagger, falchion, longsword, rapier, scimitar, and two-bladed sword swordsage
    Masked Moon I_got_this_name shapeshifting Disguise natural weapons, unarmed strike, punching dagger, spiked gauntlet, armor spikes, sickle, and handaxe Swordsages and Warblades

    Other

    Name Author Concept Skill Weapons Who Qualifies
    Army of One The demented one fight against vastly greater numbers Intimidate battleaxe, dueling shield, glaive, greatsword, longsword, and spear Crusaders and Warblades
    Blood Sage pyrefiend precision damage and healing heal dagger, sickle, war-scalpel, kama swordsages and warblade
    Broken Blade JoshuaZ Beat other martial adepts Martial Lore Scimitar, Falchion, Rapier, Bastard Sword, Longsword, Short Sword, Unarmed Strike, Greatsword, Dagger. Additionally, if you know a maneuver from any discipline you may treat any weapon from that discipline that you are proficient in as being associated to the Broken Blade. Crusader, Swordsage, Warblade, Masters of Nine, True Masters of Nine, ???
    Dancing Leaf The demented one Counters and Defense Escape Artist longspear, longsword, quarterstaff, scythe, and whip. Swordsages and Warblades
    Knowing Heart DSpeyer Nonlethal Techniques heal sap, net, bolas, quarterstaff swordsages (alternate rule: anyone with setting sun and shadow hand)
    Scarlet Bravura Demented One Selfless Leadership Perform (Oratory) bastard sword, greatsword, lance, rapier, and spiked shield Crusaders and Warblades who are Leaders
    Scarlet Rose Nero24200 Graceful Two-Weapon Fighting Perform (Dance) Dagger, Longsword, Quarterstaff, Rapier, Shortsword Swordsages and Warblades
    Way of the Gear Imp_Fireball Gears of War Concentration ((Not defined)) Warblade and Crusader



    Edit: moved Way of the Gear
    Edit: added Bladed Thoughts and Monkey Paw
    Edit: replaced igotthisname links with reposts
    Last edited by dspeyer; 2015-06-03 at 11:10 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #349
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Not at all sure about your placement of "Gears of War".

    Also "very supernatural" seems a bit of a weak catagory, but I guess it is better than making "Other" larger.

    Also, while TRUE, and even probably USEFUL, I am not sure either way about those being useful for what we seem most concerned about here... to-wit: deciding which of the homebrew PrCs and Base Classes get access to which homebrew disciplines.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2010-01-24 at 02:46 AM.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  20. - Top - End - #350
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    dspeyer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Oops, I skimmed to quickly and thought it was mechanus related. Looks like it links more to the video game. Not sure how well it fits into a pre-industrial world. I'll move it to other.

    As for use, it doesn't really help with the PrC problem. I'd thought it would before I knew what we had. At least one false lead is eliminated. It also may be good for other things.

  21. - Top - End - #351
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by dspeyer View Post
    As for use, it doesn't really help with the PrC problem. I'd thought it would before I knew what we had. At least one false lead is eliminated. It also may be good for other things.
    I would worry about base classes before we start thinking about PrCs. For one thing we have much fewer base classes than PrCs, and for another, they are more... well BASIC. The spreadsheet should be of some help for that, but you are right that the catagories you presented may prove only somewhat helpful, rather than the be-all and end-all.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  22. - Top - End - #352
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    oh my god, you guys are awesome. I want to have both your babies... at the same time, so we can baby's mama drama.

    on PrCs: if there is the case of a particular discipline being ESPECIALLY fitting for it, I think we can simply say that if the Initiator didn't have access to it before, he would have now. We can have that as an alternate mechanic, if necessary. But then we need to make sure that it's at most ONE discipline per PrC.

  23. - Top - End - #353
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Not sure that "Only One" is necessarily a good idea.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  24. - Top - End - #354
    Banned
     
    DragoonWraith's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Alternate Disciplines seems to work about as well for PrCs as Base Classes.

    One thing I've been thinking about is that, once you get past, say, four disciplines, having access to more numbers of disciplines at the same number of maneuvers known is not really much of an advantage. When you're really limited in numbers of disciplines, like with the Crusader where at first level he has to choose 5 out of 6 possible maneuvers, it just doesn't really make a difference if you have 5 or 15 disciplines to choose from. So while the Alternate Discipline scheme can work pretty well, I'm not sure it's a bad thing to also just increase the number of disciplines that each class gets in general. It may somewhat improve the Crusader or PrCs like Jade Phoenix Mage that only get very few disciplines, but I don't think it would make a huge difference so long as the disciplines are relatively well balanced.

    On which subject, Devoted Spirit is going to be a problem. It's simply better than the others. From within Tome of Battle, there are good reasons for that, since the Crusader sort of needs it, but once we start expanding things, it may become an issue. Of the homebrew ones... I've noticed that Scarlet Rose and Storm Soul both have several maneuvers that are strictly superior to others of the same level in the original 9. I haven't read most disciplines as thoroughly as I have these two, but I have actually played with Scarlet Rose and it is mechanically stronger than Tiger Claw, which it is an adaptation on, I think.

  25. - Top - End - #355
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Boston, MA

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    Alternate Disciplines seems to work about as well for PrCs as Base Classes.

    One thing I've been thinking about is that, once you get past, say, four disciplines, having access to more numbers of disciplines at the same number of maneuvers known is not really much of an advantage. When you're really limited in numbers of disciplines, like with the Crusader where at first level he has to choose 5 out of 6 possible maneuvers, it just doesn't really make a difference if you have 5 or 15 disciplines to choose from. So while the Alternate Discipline scheme can work pretty well, I'm not sure it's a bad thing to also just increase the number of disciplines that each class gets in general. It may somewhat improve the Crusader or PrCs like Jade Phoenix Mage that only get very few disciplines, but I don't think it would make a huge difference so long as the disciplines are relatively well balanced.

    On which subject, Devoted Spirit is going to be a problem. It's simply better than the others. From within Tome of Battle, there are good reasons for that, since the Crusader sort of needs it, but once we start expanding things, it may become an issue. Of the homebrew ones... I've noticed that Scarlet Rose and Storm Soul both have several maneuvers that are strictly superior to others of the same level in the original 9. I haven't read most disciplines as thoroughly as I have these two, but I have actually played with Scarlet Rose and it is mechanically stronger than Tiger Claw, which it is an adaptation on, I think.
    Yeah, this is going to be a problem. Similarly, with most of the new disciplines floating around there's going to be close to zero incentive to ever take Desert Wind. There may be a general problem of power creep going on here. Of course, homebrewing rarely makes something that's less powerful than most of the official material, because where's the fun in that? A lot of this may just have to come down to DM discretion. This ties up with the problem of PrCs and disciplines being constructed without necessarily having input to each other. There was a proposal a bit earlier to try to break the various disciplines down by themes as a guide for which PrCs could take which. Another possiblity is just to ask each discipline author to go through the various PrCs and judge which seem to make sense that their disciplines should be alternates for. Some of the standard PrCs clearly shouldn't get any alternates (a Master of Nine for example should really have the original Nine given the fluff).

    Also, while I'm commenting, pointer to two more PrCs that are directly inspired by this thread, in particular the fact that there are a hell of a lot of disciplines out there. Still need a fair bit of peaching before we decide if they are going to be incorporated.

    Edit: Changed some points and added some on further thinking.
    Last edited by JoshuaZ; 2010-01-24 at 06:35 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #356
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Lord_Gareth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2007

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quick note - I know of no incentive to take Desert Wind, ever, even when playing ToB "core".


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
    My extended homebrew sig

  27. - Top - End - #357
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    hmm.... does Desert Wind actually need some boosting? err... of course, that is really beyond the scope of this project.
    Last edited by elliott20; 2010-01-25 at 01:57 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #358
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Well, fire damage has always been the weakest kind. Even in the mid levels, there's so many resistances and immunities going around, that it doesn't really make sense. Therefore, yes, Desert Wind is weak, except for a few speed boosters it has, which I thought were useful.
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
    Après le monde - le gris; après le gris - le monde de nouveau.
    "

  29. - Top - End - #359
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Chania, Greece
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Well, fire damage has always been the weakest kind. Even in the mid levels, there's so many resistances and immunities going around, that it doesn't really make sense. Therefore, yes, Desert Wind is weak, except for a few speed boosters it has, which I thought were useful.
    Just tossing an idea: Why not design a feat that lets a martial adept bypass fire resistance just like the piercing fire feat for arcanists? Wouldn't have a clue bout prerequisites though.

    Complete Shadow Magic! for Pathfinder Rules. (Google Docs PDF)
    Newest: Shadowcaster Archetypes
    WIP:Wordcasting Shadowcaster

    Previous games: Life in Hell
    as Moira

  30. - Top - End - #360
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    A 5th level or higher Desert Wind maneuver that deals fire damage?

    Also, fire damage is good for defeating Regen... although I am not sure how many things really have that.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •