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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post
    The Black Heron discipline seems to date most closely to the Pre-Reshar Period, given the notes on the discipline indicate Reshar went out of his way to destroy references to it and that he made a deliberate choice not to teach it at the Temple. If that's right then clearly Reshar didn't create it as a style, but it does seem to have been a martial discipline in existence during Reshar's life; perhaps the style first showed up as an outgrowth of the original Iron Heart discipline which Reshar learned, and the references Reshar destroyed almost excluusively came from the documents relating to that discipline.
    That's where I'd place it. I'd call it a rarer Discipline that when Reshar discovered it and it's practitioners, he felt that they were a loathsome bunch for using possessing fiends as a supernatural power source for a martial discipline. Some people who have it use it because of unfortunate situation, but many he found used it for the power it brought. As far as connection to any discipline previous, I could see it spawning from an old order of proto-crusaders who followed dark spirits (the demons in my Kazarzeth PrC) and darker gods, an almost shamanistic approach no doubt followed by a monstrous race of some variety. The practice spread from there into fiend-cults and was used by the power hungry or by potent dark priests in their body guards. Followers of the crystal blades were probably the first of the more modern resurgence of the Discipline, but it spread into other possessing fiends from there.

    As far as other Discipline interactions, I'd place Black Heron (and it's sister Discipline that I'm working on, Silver Crane for those who channel celestials) having relations with Infinite Torment and Dread Crown in that the fiends who learned and know them often know of if not instruct their vessels in Black Heron as well, but where Infinite Torment and Dread Crown rely on many different facets of the fiendish realms, Black Heron relies on the fury of the demonic beast within and channeling it. It's a brutal, in your face discipline that cares nothing for its wielder; it only wants things to be destroyed.

    -X
    Last edited by ErrantX; 2009-12-17 at 07:26 AM.
    Chris Bennett
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  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by The Demented One View Post
    Sleeping Goddess dates back to whenever psionics arose within the setting, which makes this potentially variable. In Eberron it'd be one of the first disciplines ever created; it could very well have been created a year ago within this setting. It has no relation to Diamond Mind, and is instead the result of soul knives and psychic warriors developing martial techniques to exploit their innate psionic powers.
    Well, if they were looking for some place to start from in doing so, Diamond Mind would have been it...
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  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    The alternative to Reshar being a prick is that he was actually HUMBLE enough that he just went with the nine biggest ones, which were most likely to contribute to nation-level conflict, in an attempt to promote world peace and understanding (via people hitting eachother, often with sharp objects)... most everything else was fine by him too, just outside of his mission statement and so he didn't want the Temple's focus diluted. Doing things this way might require tweaking some backgrounds, but nothing major...
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2009-12-17 at 03:22 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Is it just me, or is Reshar kind of a prick?

    I mean, I can see him, sitting in his temple.
    "Hmm. There are 39 disciplines I've hear about. Which ones are good enough for me to teach?"
    and then go and visit other masters in their temples, going:
    "Yeah, you have some nice moves, but know what? I think the Kusari-Gama is a weapon for sissies. Oh, and you? You use mind powers? Yeaaaah... that's just stupid."
    That's kinda what I went for in the Lesser Disciplines stories. He's written as this great hero in the official material, so digging up his dark side is good when adding on to it. Falling Wave? He's a surfacer elitist. Leaping Gale? He's just a jerk. Rending Scream? Same thing. Of course, that backstory is written in-character, so it could well have an agenda to it.
    Last projects, from years back: Lesser Disciplines (Tome of Battle). Also, Never Behind the Curve (multiclassing).

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  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    The Mystic Cobra inventor was a rather devout hobgoblin who had natural affinities for Ironheart and Tiger Claw but was choosing the way of a Crusader hence the connection with Devoted Spirit. Again I'll fluff it better later.

    Therefore I'd say that Mystic Cobra is a post-Temple discipline with roots in the fall of the Temple, that is mostly related to Devoted Spirit and Ironheart but with more focus on maneuverability (ha) then either.

    And I do plan on playing my sohei adept class in our little tournament. (and probably getting my but kicked due to its quirky focus.)

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Shyftir View Post
    And I do plan on playing my sohei adept class in our little tournament. (and probably getting my but kicked due to its quirky focus.)
    Hey, you can fight me! I'm a 3.5 permanewb because none of the games I enter ever last ~.~

    I'm rather looking forward to that tournament either way though. I think I'm gonna do a quick build using the Far Realm discipline because that just looks fun.

    As for Reshar being a ****--to me I think a better explanation would be that one man, no matter how legendary, can only learn (or teach) so much. Or perhaps that he just streamlined everything he saw into the nine disciplines taught at the temple.

    I mean, it's possible that he's a ****, but I think either way it wouldn't be possible to teach all forty-odd disciplines. From a more meta point of view, Reshar is sort of the representative of the source material, so I think giving him a positive viewpoint would be a good way to show that we respect the original.

    Speaking of which--IIRC on the last page the idea of reducing the number of disciplines was brought up. But to me the thought that there are all these competing and related fighting styles being taught is the point of the manual, as that was a huge influence on the history and development of martial arts--especially in ancient China, but even today it continues. I think the "politics of martial arts" would be a really interesting and unique focus for a campaign, and in this case it'd mean the mechanics would dovetail beautifully with fluff and plot, in a way that doesn't often happen.

    Consequently, you don't have to highlight each discipline, either--I think the best way to show that every fighter has their own unique style is to make most characters generalists who use maneuvers from several disciplines, much in the way that most PCs will, in a synergistic or complementary manner.

    At least that's my point of view. Sorry for the tl;dr ^^
    Last edited by Haven; 2009-12-17 at 02:19 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Ok, I was able to get a bunch of the old Disciplines from the Martial Compendium, (Not all of them, unfortunatly).
    Here is a quote with the the Disciplines I have marked with this (+) and the ones I don't with this (-). Some of these come from here, so they may be redundant. Also, USE THE LEGEND. It does help with where thing are with the disciplines and where they come from as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Magocrat
    Martial Compendium Legend
    • (A) Archived material; this material has been archived by the boards.
    • (C) Cross-forum material; this material is posted on another forum.
    • (D) Downloadable material; this material is ready (but not necessarily finished) and can be downloaded.
    • (F) Finished material; this material is finished and ready to be played.
    • (M) For mature audiences only; posted on the Mature Topics board.
    • (R) Readied material; this material is ready to be played, but hasn't been finished.
    • (S) Supplement material; this material requires another supplement to be played.
    • (W) Work in progress; this material has been posted, but it isn't ready yet.


    *Snip*

    Martial Disciplines


    *Snip*
    Last edited by Dante & Vergil; 2009-12-17 at 02:56 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Is it just me, or is Reshar kind of a prick?

    I mean, I can see him, sitting in his temple.
    "Hmm. There are 39 disciplines I've hear about. Which ones are good enough for me to teach?"
    and then go and visit other masters in their temples, going:
    "Yeah, you have some nice moves, but know what? I think the Kusari-Gama is a weapon for sissies. Oh, and you? You use mind powers? Yeaaaah... that's just stupid."
    LOL.

    Even so, disposing with other disciplines does have some historical precedents. Consider A Book of Five Rings. Not only does Miyamoto Musashi, the "Sword Saint", go on at some length about how his school is the best, he takes an entire chapter/scroll to explain how every other school around at the time sucks -- dissing everything from longer swords to polearms to learning many different types of sword strokes. Martial masters aren't beyond vanity, and the best of them recognised their own limitations imposed by physical stature, speed, or strength. Possibly it's a combination of all these things that caused Reshar to abandon the other disciplines -- because they weren't suited to humans such as himself, or because their requirements (psionic ability, for example) weren't something he could utilise.

    Or, on the other hand, Reshar could just be a prick.

  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Double posting, but it's more by way of a running tally of schools and whatnot.

    So far I've got the following subgroupings (and I've arbitrarily added names for the overgroups just because I can )

    The Way of Saltwater
    Ocean Tempest and Ocean Soul

    The Rainbow Disciplines
    Far Realm, Narrow Bridge, Kaleidoscopic Dream, Golden Saint, and Fool's Grip. The discipline of Coin's Edge is tangentially associated due to its (proposed) practice by a former monk of the Monastery of Broken Rainbows. And if you'll pardon the pun, the discipline of Fortunate Assailant looks like the flip side to Coin's Edge, again with a focus on probability and risky gambles.

    The Path of the Obsidian
    Ninefold Damnation, Infinite Torment, Dread Crown, and Black Heron.

    Kh'un Fh'u
    Way of the Gear and Black Rain.

    The Demented One also mentioned that Sleeping Goddess basically dates back to whenever psionics arose in the setting. Grouping it with other disciplines does therefore make that kind of tricky. D.O., would you have any objections if one assumed that psionics are "always" around in one form or another within this setting and therefore that the technique has a history like Solaris Arcanum in that it is ancient but recently rediscovered?

  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post
    The Demented One also mentioned that Sleeping Goddess basically dates back to whenever psionics arose in the setting. Grouping it with other disciplines does therefore make that kind of tricky. D.O., would you have any objections if one assumed that psionics are "always" around in one form or another within this setting and therefore that the technique has a history like Solaris Arcanum in that it is ancient but recently rediscovered?
    An interesting twist with Sleeping Goddess would be if the Discipline itself wasn't ever actually 'taught' to anyone at all. In the Expanded Psionics Handbook, one of the Prestige Classes references a being called the "Golden Mind", which is a sort of conglomerate presence within the minds of all those who who can practice psionics. What if instead of having a master, those who practice the Sleeping Goddess discipline have the knowledge imparted to them by the Golden Mind itself? Therefore, the discipline was always practices and always existed, but Sleeping Goddess was only ever recently acknowledged as a discipline because it literally has no temples or places that taught it. Why bother? It'd be like having a textbook inscribed into your brain.

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Saintheart View Post
    The Demented One also mentioned that Sleeping Goddess basically dates back to whenever psionics arose in the setting. Grouping it with other disciplines does therefore make that kind of tricky. D.O., would you have any objections if one assumed that psionics are "always" around in one form or another within this setting and therefore that the technique has a history like Solaris Arcanum in that it is ancient but recently rediscovered?
    This tangentially brings up something else I've been wondering about--how to incorporate characters who aren't martial adepts into this setting. Reading this paragraph, I'm reminded that the name for the different psionic powers is, of course, disciplines.

    So perhaps psions are also organized into enclaves. In my imagination, martial adepts are going through a renaissance (one which is intrinsically violent, no less) in this setting, one that results in their eventual codification. Perhaps the psions are going through a similar one, or have been through one in the past. (Maybe there's a "Temple of Six Crystals" out there somewhere)

    In this setting I can see wizards (as an institution) as calcified, set in their ways, confident that everything there is to learn about magic has already been learned, and looking down on martial adepts and practitioners of other ways, both for having a way of gaining insight into the universe that wizards don't consider valid and for being in such a state of upheaval and change.

    And clerics are just the holy men, living in shrines dedicated to whatever gods are at work in the setting--I'd expect most to be cloistered clerics, but the regular cleric is starting to appear as well because it's growing steadily more dangerous with the martial upheaval.

    Rogues, of course, live in the margins--they're looked down on by most martial artists for not having the drive to focus on the sublime way, and for instead relying on a single, simplistic combat technique (sneak attack). Nonetheless, dojos still occasionally hire them to steal the secrets of their rivals.

    I was having a hard time figuring out where monsters figure into all this--I'd think that, as opposed to the regular D&D setting, most of the opponents would be humanoids (actually, shoot, I was just thinking humans--racial barriers are probably another angle to the "martial politics") with levels in initiator classes. Maybe a sudden influx of monsters is what precipitated the martial revolution (and depending on when the campaign takes place, they may or may not still be around). But of course, there are also monsters and animals living in the wilderness who in some way inspired several of the disciplines (Tiger Claw for instance).
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  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    I was having a hard time figuring out where monsters figure into all this--I'd think that, as opposed to the regular D&D setting, most of the opponents would be humanoids (actually, shoot, I was just thinking humans--racial barriers are probably another angle to the "martial politics") with levels in initiator classes. Maybe a sudden influx of monsters is what precipitated the martial revolution (and depending on when the campaign takes place, they may or may not still be around). But of course, there are also monsters and animals living in the wilderness who in some way inspired several of the disciplines (Tiger Claw for instance).
    Well, we know that Reshar learned his "first" discipline, Iron Heart IIRC, from a hobgoblin monastery. The blossoming of the martial revolution could have come from an "arms race" between different species or factions within a species. One species clues into the power of martial disciplines and uses them to take on another; their enemy engages in espionage, capture, etc, etc, and learns how it's done, then goes on to develop their own techniques; a third party tries to take advantage of the conflict and learns of the disciplines; knowledge of the discipline gets sold for profit; and so on. Similar to nuclear proliferation in our own time, since, as we all know, ToB is Da Bomb.

    On a wider note, though, possibly we need a closer focus on exactly what we want this book to be. As I understood elliot20's original proposal, this was going to essentially be a catalogue and linking-in of the various homebrew disciplines into something akin to ToB; an expansion on ToB. Somewhere along the line (and I may have missed it) it seems we've expanded from creating an expansion book to ToB to outright creating a campaign book based around it.

    I'm not sure the latter option is really feasible. We're talking about a time period in the past, for a start; ToB itself indicates Reshar lived "three lifetimes ago" in the introduction, and I think a big reason it's sorta-vague on the precise details of Reshar's life and circumstances is because the book was designed to be dropped into an existing campaign universe with a minimum of fuss. I'm still all for creating a more coherent background to the ToBverse, but creating a campaign in that world is going to be massively big even if we cut the disciplines down into even 10 or 11 schools. It would have to span the entirety of Reshar's life and beyond to cover all of the historical periods we're looking at. As some people have noted, it would be a task on the order of cleansing the Augaean Stables (and without a river to diver, either) to try and create some encounter or mini-campaign devoted to each school one at a time.

    If I've got the wrong end of the stick entirely, somebody please slap me down, but I would have thought we should stick to elliot's original focus which was to relate the schools closer to one another, build some more background on the period of the "martial revolution", but really shy away from creating an actual campaign for this project. Indeed a campaign, if there was to be one, should be a secondary project to be considered after we're sure of what's going into this project.

    Just my thoughts. As I say, happy to be contradicted or shouted down.

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    No, I think you're right. Sorry, I just get carried away sometimes.
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  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    hmm... it seems this project has definitely taken on a life of it's own beyond me. My initial intention was simply that, a catalog and some link-ins for a martial arts period with some base structures. But it seems that in doing so, we have also started down a path where we're also creating an entire campaign as well, which I must say, is actually kind of exciting to see.

    I'm kind of torn too. On one hand, I want to basically work the ToBverse into a campaign settings book to itself, on the other hand, that's a big task. Of course, this is now our project as much as it is mine, so I'll let the homebrewers vote on that.

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    I agree that spliting it into 2 chunks, and taking things one at a time is highly desirable.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
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  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    I'm gonna go ahead and drop a link to the Blood Sage discipline I just posted. Not quite complete yet, but hopefully it will be soon.
    Witch Razor Blood Sage
    (Links both lead to ToB disciplines I made!)

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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    I'm going to honestly say that bigger decisions on this are not my business. I'm just gonna focus on my Sohei Adept(class), and Mystic Cobra(discipline), how they would be used or brought into anything bigger is up to others.

    I do hope to create a PrC related to Mystic Cobra.

    In other news, I think Mystic Cobra's connections to Tiger Claw make very little sense, therefor the Sohei Adept's base school choices are changing to:
    Stone Dragon, Mystic Cobra, Devoted Spirit, and Army of One. (Thanks to Demented One for permission to do so.)


    We have NO Samurai equivalent martial class... this needs to be rectified. If nobody else wants it, I'll work on it after I'm done with Mystic Cobra.
    Last edited by Shyftir; 2009-12-18 at 01:41 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    I don't really feel more base classes are necessary, base classes fill the role of something that can cover a broad range of things. A swordsage, warblade, or a crusader could easily fit the archetype of the samurai without having to make another base class. Now, a Samurai PrC that fills in a specific niche of specialization wouldn't be out of sorts (such as an Iaiujitsu master), but a warblade with a katana could easily call himself a samurai and it would be fine. Look at Miko!

    -X
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  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by ErrantX View Post
    I don't really feel more base classes are necessary, base classes fill the role of something that can cover a broad range of things. A swordsage, warblade, or a crusader could easily fit the archetype of the samurai without having to make another base class. Now, a Samurai PrC that fills in a specific niche of specialization wouldn't be out of sorts (such as an Iaiujitsu master), but a warblade with a katana could easily call himself a samurai and it would be fine. Look at Miko!

    -X
    Seconded. Iron Heart/Diamond Mind Warblade is all the samurai we need.
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    I basically came up with the same opinion myself. Although a PrC that has the samurai feel would be cool.

  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Just a heads up guys. Tomorrow I'm going to be in some place without a computer for a week. But rest assured, I will be checking in later.

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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Ok, well, on that note let me jot a few things down here for people to give me feed-back on, because this is something that involves all of us.

    My contribution to this is Falling Anvil. It is right there in my sig. It is a martial discipline based on Bugs Bunny, Wiley Coyote, and The Three Stooges.

    Why should you care? Because I used a rather unique mechanic for getting access to it... any swordsage (or anyone else via Martial Study or Martial stance) can access it any time they like... BUT as soon as they do, they lose access to Diamond Mind, Devoted Spirit, Tiger Claw, and maybe one other discipline (I forget and it is not important). Any maneuvers of those disciplines you have are immediately converted to Falling Anvil maneuvers of equal level. That is all very well and good, but it doesn't help with the fact that if you replace all of the disciplines I mentioned by name with homebrew disciplines, you aren't really losing anything... So, since I think my mechanic there is pretty flavorful, I am going to try to come up with a similar percentage of the other homebrew that I can likewise declare "Incompatible".

    So:
    Incompatible:
    Army of One - The Joker not withstanding, I don't really see any discipline based around Intimidate jiving very well with something that draws its power from the primeval forces of comedy.

    Black Rain - I am sorry, but Yosemite Sam and Elmer Fudd prove that guns are only good for getting pwned when the power of comedy holds sway.

    Black Heron - While I guess you could play on the whole "Jeckle and Hyde" thing for laughs, I don't get that sort of vibe from this. "I feed on your fear" isn't very in tune with "I feed on laughter".

    Blood Sage - I am not seeing the errudite nature of the study of anatomy meshing very well with people who strive to become so disorganized that their own internal organs become misplaced (Seriously, I have a maneuver that works that way... it lets you re-roll fortitude saves).

    Dread Crown - The only SLIGHTLY funny thing about this discipline that I noticed is "Grasp of the Damned"... and that isn't enough to counter its sadistic aspects.

    Narrow Bridge - Death is a downer, and besides, it was invented by monks who DIDN'T go insane in the process, so it must be boring as all get out... I mean monks spend all that time learning to jump really good, and then they don't hardly ever use it to bounce around at random making hooting noises or anything...

    Nine-Fold Damnation - Lawful requirement... which actually makes it kinda cheesy to be able to trade in your maneuvers if you change to NE or TN alignment, but whatever...

    Way of the Gear - Guns and a fairly gritty game (from what I know) that emphasizes group tactics (a Lawful tendency), with military units (Lawful), make this incompatible, despite the funny names for many of the maneuvers.



    Analysis of selected undecideds:
    Coins Edge - This feels like it trying to control randomness, rather than moving with it, if that makes any sense...

    Kaleidoscopic Dream - Chaos aligned, Limbo, random stuff... but somehow it doesn't quite feel right for a strongly allied discipline... probably compatible, if only by default.

    Holy Word - Speaking Truth seems opposite to a discipline based around Bluff... but the 3 Words of Vengence Maneuvers could have a "Three Stooges beating each-other up" vibe to them, and both of them involve "getting the unverse on your side".

    Solaris Arcanium - I am thinking "No", but can't really put into words why I am thinking that... seems too "fancy"... too "precise"...



    Compatible:
    Far Realm - Hey, they both involve going completely out of your mind for the purposes of beating people up! They go together like tentacles and banana creme! Everyone knows that banana creme brings out the subtle aftertastes of tentacles! The newts dwelling in the forbidden chasm have revealed this to us!!!

    Fool's Grip - They both involve hitting people with frying pans... good enough for me.

    Fortunate Assailant - Any discipline that includes a maneuver called "Your Sock's Untied!" is a kindred spirit to Falling Anvil.

    Guilded Fate - The stealth version of having the universe on your side... too bad it is nearly completely unfinished...

    Golden Saint - A much more happy discipline than Devoted Spirit (Blade of the Martyr and the two fear inducing maneuvers not withstanding), and obviously compatible with Chaos since an Eladrin was one of the ones to bring it to the material plane. The emphasis on non-lethal damage, and some of the defensive abilities jive well with cartoonish recovery.

    Twin Spirit - Compatible by default. Besides if you dump-stat Intellegence and take the right feat, your mount may end up smarter than you, which is always good for some sitcom type humor...

    Ocean Soul - Compatible by default.

    Ocean Tempest - A bit Chaotic in its feel. "Ride the River" is missing mechanics.



    More as I get inspired.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2009-12-21 at 06:58 AM.
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  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Heh. If Swordsage recovery didn't bug me so much, I think I would have gone with a character focused on Falling Anvil and Far Realm for the tournie. The hilariously disturbing part is that they actually synergize really well.
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    The hilariously disturbing part is that they actually synergize really well.
    Could you please explain that synergy to me? I have read through Far Realms once or twice in the past, and nothing jumped out at me as far as synergy or lack there-of.

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    I just made up stuff that looked halfway balanced... the most I have got as far as actually analyzing its strengths and weaknesses is: Well, it has a lot of long range maneuvers, and probably more defensive stuff than any other discipline, but all the defensive stuff has drawbacks to it. In fact, if you focused just on defensive stuff you could be pretty hard to kill quickly. But since you would be putting yourself out of the fight with your own maneuvers, the follow up would be hard to deal with. Oh, and it has a BUNCH of maneuvers and does physical (the "<Heavy Object> Drop"s), Electricity (the "Cloud"s) and fire damage (the "Give <Explosive>"s). And since almost nothing but the capstone doesn't involve dealing any damage (and for that you just have to deal one lousy hitpoint...) you can afford to seriously dumpstat strength if you like.

    ... Ok, so that is actually a halfway useful block of information I just spat out. But it just sets up the situation, it doesn't actually make any real quantitative statements about balance.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2009-12-19 at 06:46 PM.
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  25. - Top - End - #205
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Could you please explain that synergy to me?
    Well, nothing gamebreaking (I think), but the feat that lets you take Far Realm maneuvers also makes you immune to confusion and insanity effects (though you seem to have added something saying that such an immunity means you can't use those moves). Also, using the Fallen Anvil ranged moves is a really good way to activate Widening Gyre (which I think Far Realm has only one way to activate on its own--which probably means I'm missing something really obvious, but eh). And since Far Realm save DCs are all based off Cha, that helps with all those Falling Anvil moves based off of Bluff.
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Thank you very much. Those do make sense.

    Now that I reread again, Widening Gyre is a very powerful mechanic (or at least poorly written?). For one thing you can chain it each round, even doing full attacks, also, if you have to do something other than melee attacking, it sticks around as written.
    Widening Gyre: To use this option, you must make a successful attack against an opponent outside of your threatened area. Your next melee attack may be made against this opponent, regardless of range.
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  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Thank you very much. Those do make sense.

    Now that I reread again, Widening Gyre is a very powerful mechanic (or at least poorly written?). For one thing you can chain it each round, even doing full attacks, also, if you have to do something other than melee attacking, it sticks around as written.
    I think the chaining bit should be preserved (because "Widening Gyre"--it gets worse for the enemy the longer it goes on, which is the theme of the tactical feat), but I do agree that it should be rewritten to go away if you don't make use of it in the next round.

    Though there's also the fact that unless you use one particular counter (a really good one, but still) from the discipline, you have to have some other source of ranged attack to make use of it.
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Melee weapons that can also be thrown come to mind. Plus there are a few strikes from other disciplines (especially Desert Wind, with its AoE "XXX's Flame" maneuvers). For sword-sages you can go with a crossbow...
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Was looking through Ocean Soul to determine its compatability with Falling Anvil... I think it is compatable, but I am noticing some editing issues.

    "Wavestride" is purely better than Desert Wind's "Wind Stride"... then again, wind-stride strikes me as a pretty weak maneuver....

    "Fog Mantle" needs to say "Miss chance" rather than "Concealment Gained" on the table for clarity probably.

    The "Wake of the X" maneuvers are probably complex for many people to envision. I recommend posting a picture of with some templates on them if possible... I have taken my best shot at it below, but I am unsure what a 5' cone even looks like in D&D (if the rules are even made to allow it...). Also, the short descriptions make it sound like they discriminate between friend and foe, while the extended descriptions show that they don't.
    Attempts at Wake templates:
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    This only handles vertical or horizontal charges... all templates can be rotated 90 degrees and/or mirror imaged. Will probably add 45 degree diagonals at some point, but I am not making any promises, and even those aren't going to be enough since you might charge to a point 3 squares west and one square south for instance.
    I = Initial position of character
    F = Final location of character
    W = Wake
    ? = Not sure if a 5' cone actually covers any space in D&D, so TECHNICALLY these squares don't get hit... but maybe they should... it could fall under "not enough momentum built up yet".
    S = My desire for better symetry would mean these squares shoult get hit too.
    Movements of 5' to 35' (don't think 5' is possible with that maneuver since it requires a charge, but am throwing it in just for reference to show it doesn't do anything in any case)

    40' to 55' of movement

    60' to ??' Feet (coming later)


    Diagonals (Assumes you base the cone on the back edge of the ending square, rather than the front one. Note that the initial square DOES get hit by the wake in these cases)
    10' (1 diagonal square) to 40' (5 diagonal squares)

    45'(6 diagonal squares) to 60' (8 diagonal squares)
    A = This square does not apply to Wake of the Sea Turtle
    70'(9 diagonal squares) to ??'(? Diagonal Squares)
    A = This square does not apply to Wake of the Sea Turtle
    B = This square applies only to the Wake of the Whale and the Leviathan


    "Wake of the Leviathan" is just a cone behind you at the end of your move basically (unless it is more than 40' in which case it is a rectangle behind that), unless you have something that allows you to turn during a charge. That is worth a note for simplicity, but since such abilities DO exist, it shouldn't be part of the main rule.

    "Bite of the Shark" needs to say if it makes your weapon attack secondary, is a secondary attack itself when used with a weapon attack as well, or if you get your full BAB with it, or what.



    More as I read more... going to have a shot at those templates...
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2009-12-21 at 02:20 AM.
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  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Default Re: The Age of the Warriors - a ToB expansion book idea

    Black Heron and Dread Crown seem to overlap a bit in fluff. Not to say there can't be two fiendishly originating disciplines, but they are a definite pair of candidates for being "related" in the projects fluff.

    I am also fairly sure someone made a martial Samurai. They could choose from archery, mounted and spear to gain an extra discipline (and that is all I recall other than it was posted here).
    Last edited by deuxhero; 2009-12-20 at 05:50 PM.

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