Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    sonofzeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    So, I'm making a character for a friend. She's never played D&D before, and wants a Cleric. I'm putting together her spell list, but I was wondering if you guys had any suggestions. The big problem is it's a fairly high level game

    Simplicity is key here. She's seriously intimidated by the system, and terrified of messing things up. I keep trying to reassure her, but I also want to make her sheet as easy to use as possible. All the spells should be easy to understand, easy to use, and I should be able to say everything that needs to be said about them in under a line of text.

    Here's the format I'm using.

    0th level spells (“orisons”) - DC 15
    - Light (make an object glow like a torch for 90 minutes)
    - Light (make an object glow like a torch for 90 minutes)
    - Create Water (creates 18 gallons of water)
    - Mending (makes minor repairs to items)
    - Read Magic (decipher magical writings)
    - Purify Food and Drink (makes rotten/poisonous food safe)
    She's a 9th level Human Cleric, with Wis 20. I haven't chosen domains for her yet, and she has a few nice Spell Like Abilities that give, among other things, a reasonable damage output and some solid Infinite Free Healing (via Eldritch Disciple, which hopefully should make the character easier to use in play, even if it's harder for me to build).

    So yeah, suggestions appreciated, especially if you attach a quick note on what it does and whatnot. I'm making two other character sheets too, in addition to my own, so any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
    Avatar by Crimmy

    Zeal's Tier System for PrC's
    Zeal's Expanded Alignment System
    Zeal's "Creative" Build Requests
    Bubs the Commoner
    Zeal's "Minimum-Intervention" balance fix
    Feat Point System fix (in progress)

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    sonofzeal, you're like a megazord of awesome and win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    SonOfZeal, it is a great joy to see that your Kung-Fu remains undiminished in this, the twilight of an age. May the Great Wheel be kind to you, planeswalker.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
    Douglas's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Mountain View, CA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    As I recall, Eldritch Disciple doesn't actually give unlimited free healing because you have to spend Turn Undead uses to power that ability.

    Given your concerns about simplicity and ease of understanding, I would suggest focusing almost entirely on spells that do not have ongoing effects to be kept track of. Buff spells are out, even though they are among a cleric's best options, because constantly having to remember which set of bonuses are currently in effect would make her fears worse. Things that grant whole new capabilities, like Invisibility Purge or Blindsight, might be acceptable, but anything with a numeric bonus or penalty that lasts more than a round or so should be avoided.
    Last edited by Douglas; 2009-12-07 at 04:36 PM.
    Like 4X (aka Civilization-like) gaming? Know programming? Interested in game development? Take a look.

    Avatar by Ceika.

    Archives:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Saberhagen's Twelve Swords, some homebrew artifacts for 3.5 (please comment)
    Isstinen Tonche for ECL 74 playtesting.
    Team Solars: Powergaming beyond your wildest imagining, without infinite loops or epic. Yes, the DM asked for it.
    Arcane Swordsage: Making it actually work (homebrew)

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Banned
     
    Optimystik's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Tampa, FL
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    As I recall, Eldritch Disciple doesn't actually give unlimited free healing because you have to spend Turn Undead uses to power that ability.
    Correct - applying Healing Blast requires you to burn a turn attempt as a Swift action.

    As for the spell list, it depends entirely on what she wants to do. Does she want to hang back and blast, or wade into melee with a glaivelock and cleric buffs? Does she want to primarily deal damage, or support her team? What's her exact build? (i.e. Cleric X/Warlock Y/ED Z, fill in the numbers.)
    Last edited by Optimystik; 2009-12-07 at 04:39 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    UTC -6

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    Remember not to have her prepare Cure spells, but make it perfectly clear that she can spend other spells for curing power. Perhaps make "Spell Cards" like WotC's Power Cards for 4e, so that she can keep better track of what she's got prepared.

    Some gems, chosen out of the SRD for utility and clarity:
    Level 1:
    Comprehend Languages: Exactly what it says on the tin: Understand all languages for 90 minutes.
    Level 2:
    Animal's Whatever: one subject gains a stat boost for 9 minutes.
    Level 3:
    Dispel Magic: Cancels spells and magical effects.
    Level 4:
    Dimensional Anchor: Stops teleportation.
    Divine Power: Gain massive bonuses to win.
    Tongues: Speak every language for 90 minutes.
    Level 5:
    Righteous Might: Become bigger and smash-ier.
    Raise Dead: Spend diamonds to bring back a dead guy.
    Last edited by Mando Knight; 2009-12-07 at 04:43 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    AslanCross's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Metro Manila, Philippines
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    Use the Touch of Healing reserve feat from Complete Champion. That's practically infinite healing. My first group had a cleric who used it to good effect.

    I'd go with the simple buffs---Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, etc---those have durations that are long enough that they don't need to be tracked in combat. Conviction is a solid bonus to saves, while Shield of Faith is a solid + to AC. (She doesn't need to remember that it's a Deflection bonus; it's up to the other players to do that.)

    You will want her to have utility spells such as Break Enchantment, Dispel Magic, etc---she doesn't have to prepare them all the time, but she should be aware she has them.


    Give her one or two blaster spells--the Cleric has a couple of really good ones, such as Earth Reaver (it's 5th level). She should still get used to rolling dice, no matter what. It's easy enough to state, anyway: "Everything within a 20-ft radius takes 4d6 bludgeoning and 3d6 fire damage; Reflex Save or they get knocked down.)

    Avoid spells like Spritual Weapon, because heck, even I keep forgetting what that does.


    Eberron Red Hand of Doom Campaign Journal. NOW COMPLETE!
    Sakuya Izayoi avatar by Mr. Saturn. Caella sig by Neoseph.

    "I dunno, you just gave me the image of a nerd flying slow motion over a coffee table towards another nerd, dual wielding massive books. It was awesome." -- Marriclay

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    sonofzeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    As I recall, Eldritch Disciple doesn't actually give unlimited free healing because you have to spend Turn Undead uses to power that ability.
    Ah, you're right

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    Given your concerns about simplicity and ease of understanding, I would suggest focusing almost entirely on spells that do not have ongoing effects to be kept track of. Buff spells are out, even though they are among a cleric's best options, because constantly having to remember which set of bonuses are currently in effect would make her fears worse. Things that grant whole new capabilities, like Invisibility Purge or Blindsight, might be acceptable, but anything with a numeric bonus or penalty that lasts more than a round or so should be avoided.
    Buffs should be okay, but should focus primarily on buffing other party members who can keep track of the changes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    As for the spell list, it depends entirely on what she wants to do. Does she want to hang back and blast, or wade into melee with a glaivelock and cleric buffs? Does she want to primarily deal damage, or support her team? What's her exact build? (i.e. Cleric X/Warlock Y/ED Z, fill in the numbers.)
    All she asked for was "Lasers and Healing", so I gave her lasers and healing. =P

    By my limited observation, I suspect she wants some basic blasting, and general party support. I expect her to hang at the back for now, and taking more of a passive roll with the occasional Eldritch Blast until she gets a bit more comfortable.

    As to the build, I'm actually tweaking the rules somewhat in her favour. She's Warlock 1 / Cleric 4 / Eldritch Disciple 5, with homebrew feats to bring her Invocations and Blasts up to what a Warlock of our level would be doing. That way she can have Flight, which should be fun for her, and a decent Essence + Shape. The rest of the party has a Tashalatora PsiWar, and an Arcane Heirophant, so I doubt she'll be overpowered. Mostly it just means that she's less reliant on picking good spells and using them reliably, making the choices a little easier.
    Avatar by Crimmy

    Zeal's Tier System for PrC's
    Zeal's Expanded Alignment System
    Zeal's "Creative" Build Requests
    Bubs the Commoner
    Zeal's "Minimum-Intervention" balance fix
    Feat Point System fix (in progress)

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    sonofzeal, you're like a megazord of awesome and win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    SonOfZeal, it is a great joy to see that your Kung-Fu remains undiminished in this, the twilight of an age. May the Great Wheel be kind to you, planeswalker.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    The vigor line is a good one for healing. It's not your responsibility to keep track of it once you have cast it and it does a fair bit of healing. Heck, you don't even need to make a roll for it.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    Perhaps you should swap Cleric for Favored Soul? I wouldn't normally recommend it for a new player, but if someone familiar with the system choses the spells, it isn't such a problem.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    Perhaps you should swap Cleric for Favored Soul? I wouldn't normally recommend it for a new player, but if someone familiar with the system choses the spells, it isn't such a problem.
    Just a note on this: As a spontaneous caster, once you have your spells, you've got them till level up. You're dealing with the same number of spells to dig through to prepare as you are to learn, but, as a cleric, when you realize "This spell is jank!" you can switch it out the next day.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    May 2008

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    It might be easier to just replace the Cleric's spellcasting with a wisdom-based Generic Spellcaster's spellcasting.

    Spontaneous casting is a lot easier to explain. If you really want, you can move the spellcasting level progression up one level, too, to still be on track with the wizard casting. Domains are optional, and can just be added to spells kown.

    I think it'll be a lot easier to explain, "You know these spells." *point to this*
    _________
    Spell List
    0th level spells:
    -
    -
    -
    1st level spells:
    -
    -
    -
    Etc...
    "You can cast those spells this many times:" *points to spells per day*
    "If you want, you can cast a spell as a higher level spell, but it'll probably be weaker than a higher level spell."
    Last edited by Zovc; 2009-12-07 at 05:05 PM.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Firbolg in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrice Dead Cat View Post
    Just a note on this: As a spontaneous caster, once you have your spells, you've got them till level up. You're dealing with the same number of spells to dig through to prepare as you are to learn, but, as a cleric, when you realize "This spell is jank!" you can switch it out the next day.
    This is why I wouldn't recommend it for a new player, but I would recommend it if someone experienced is choosing the spells. An experienced player can choose spells that aren't jank, or at least not all the time.

    Plus, the new player won't know what spell to switch in. Most of the time, they'll just hang onto the bad spells, because at least they know that they do (or don't do, depending on the spell).

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Oct 2008

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    I'm going to second the spell card idea. Print out a bunch of spells that you know are decent, with multiples of each card. Hand your player stacks of cards per spell level and say "each card is a spell that can be used once. Pick six from this pile, X from this pile, Y from this pile, etc. When you want to cast that spell, hand it to me. You can get it back tomorrow."

    I did this for a new player once. It worked pretty well.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    I totally second what erikun said. playing a spont caster is so much easier for a noob than having to pick spells every "day" . I would suggest asking the DM to allow spell swapping every level (at least to a minor degree-like only 1 or 2 per level) to help her as she better understands what is going on. this way she can dump the jank spells for something that she might find more useful.
    HD
    Last edited by HARLEYDUDE; 2009-12-07 at 05:24 PM.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

    Join Date
    May 2008

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrice Dead Cat View Post
    Just a note on this: As a spontaneous caster, once you have your spells, you've got them till level up. You're dealing with the same number of spells to dig through to prepare as you are to learn, but, as a cleric, when you realize "This spell is jank!" you can switch it out the next day.
    I was assuming OP would be choosing spells (aka building the character) for the noob.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

    Join Date
    Nov 2009

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    Quote Originally Posted by Zovc View Post
    I was assuming OP would be choosing spells (aka building the character) for the noob.
    this is how i read the OP's post as well.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    Quote Originally Posted by erikun View Post
    This is why I wouldn't recommend it for a new player, but I would recommend it if someone experienced is choosing the spells. An experienced player can choose spells that aren't jank, or at least not all the time.

    Plus, the new player won't know what spell to switch in. Most of the time, they'll just hang onto the bad spells, because at least they know that they do (or don't do, depending on the spell).
    Ah, fair. Still, I feel that, if given several days in game, a solid spell list should come about.

    The Cleric Handbook has some general advice, but it's a little limited.

    Working down from 5th level slots, I'd vote in at least one surge of Fortune (Complete Champion) as a personal buff spell with its auto-"I succeed here!" ability. Break Enchantment is the only thing that readily comes to mind that would also eat a 5th level slot, even though it's more of a Plan B spell. Everything else I have at hand is a little too complicated, sadly.

    Main ones for fourth level would have to be Greater Magic Weapon to help out whoever needs it more, Deathward as a Plan A spell, and maybe a Greater Blindsight spell to prevent things from creeping up on the group during the night.

    Third levels give us Darkfire (SpC) for some blasting goodness that the newbie will probably enjoy. The fact that it lasts for multiple rounds also makes it useful. Mass Lesser Vigor should be the healing spell prepped. I'd do 6 of them, but that's taking Triadspell into account, sadly. An align weapon, mass spell may help, again, for both overcoming DR and giving +2d6 to hit, which looks really good when you're starting out.

    For 2nd level, all I've really got to suggest is Shield Other. Maybe Conviction, but that might be first and I'm AFB.

    Resurgence is the only thing I would recommend for first level that doesn't involve recalculating stuffs. Also pretty simple in the "You get another save" is its effect.

    Have the group buy wands of lesser vigor or CLW for the actual healing. Maybe, maybe dropping down the (mass) version at the start of a fight, if no other buff spells are left. Hope that helps.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Wings of Peace View Post
    "See these cookies? Note how while good they taste sort of bland. Now try these, they're the same cookies but with chocolate chips added. Notice how with the second batch we expended slightly more ingredients but dramatically enhanced the flavor? That's metamagic."
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Seriously, can we kill this misconception now? A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He shops for precisely what he means to.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    sonofzeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Remember not to have her prepare Cure spells, but make it perfectly clear that she can spend other spells for curing power. Perhaps make "Spell Cards" like WotC's Power Cards for 4e, so that she can keep better track of what she's got prepared.

    Some gems, chosen out of the SRD for utility and clarity:
    Level 1:
    Comprehend Languages: Exactly what it says on the tin: Understand all languages for 90 minutes.
    Level 2:
    Animal's Whatever: one subject gains a stat boost for 9 minutes.
    Level 3:
    Dispel Magic: Cancels spells and magical effects.
    Level 4:
    Dimensional Anchor: Stops teleportation.
    Divine Power: Gain massive bonuses to win.
    Tongues: Speak every language for 90 minutes.
    Level 5:
    Righteous Might: Become bigger and smash-ier.
    Raise Dead: Spend diamonds to bring back a dead guy.
    Thanks! I'll definitely use most of these, but I think I'll stay away from Divine Power / Righteous Might for now. The way I have her set up, her Eldritch Blast routine is entirely respectable. No point complicating that with melee combat for her.


    Quote Originally Posted by HARLEYDUDE View Post
    this is how i read the OP's post as well.
    Indeed. I'm handing her a character sheet, with a basic "spells prepared" list already there. At that point, the difference between that and a spontaneous caster is "each 1/day" or "6 of these per day", and I think the former is slightly easier. Plus, when she gets more comfortable she can tweak the list as needed.
    Avatar by Crimmy

    Zeal's Tier System for PrC's
    Zeal's Expanded Alignment System
    Zeal's "Creative" Build Requests
    Bubs the Commoner
    Zeal's "Minimum-Intervention" balance fix
    Feat Point System fix (in progress)

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    sonofzeal, you're like a megazord of awesome and win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    SonOfZeal, it is a great joy to see that your Kung-Fu remains undiminished in this, the twilight of an age. May the Great Wheel be kind to you, planeswalker.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    sonofzeal's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2008

    Default Re: Easy Cleric Spell List for Noob

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrice Dead Cat View Post
    Ah, fair. Still, I feel that, if given several days in game, a solid spell list should come about.

    The Cleric Handbook has some general advice, but it's a little limited.

    Working down from 5th level slots, I'd vote in at least one surge of Fortune (Complete Champion) as a personal buff spell with its auto-"I succeed here!" ability. Break Enchantment is the only thing that readily comes to mind that would also eat a 5th level slot, even though it's more of a Plan B spell. Everything else I have at hand is a little too complicated, sadly.

    Main ones for fourth level would have to be Greater Magic Weapon to help out whoever needs it more, Deathward as a Plan A spell, and maybe a Greater Blindsight spell to prevent things from creeping up on the group during the night.

    Third levels give us Darkfire (SpC) for some blasting goodness that the newbie will probably enjoy. The fact that it lasts for multiple rounds also makes it useful. Mass Lesser Vigor should be the healing spell prepped. I'd do 6 of them, but that's taking Triadspell into account, sadly. An align weapon, mass spell may help, again, for both overcoming DR and giving +2d6 to hit, which looks really good when you're starting out.

    For 2nd level, all I've really got to suggest is Shield Other. Maybe Conviction, but that might be first and I'm AFB.

    Resurgence is the only thing I would recommend for first level that doesn't involve recalculating stuffs. Also pretty simple in the "You get another save" is its effect.

    Have the group buy wands of lesser vigor or CLW for the actual healing. Maybe, maybe dropping down the (mass) version at the start of a fight, if no other buff spells are left. Hope that helps.
    A lot of great ideas there!

    Note that she's an Eldritch Disciple, so Darkfire is wholy irrelevant. The only othe one I'll pass on is Surge of Fortune, just because I hate Complete Champion with the firey burning passion of a thousand flaming suns would rather not use material from that particular source. Or something.

    And Conviction sounds like a good idea, too, especially since it is a 1st level spell.
    Avatar by Crimmy

    Zeal's Tier System for PrC's
    Zeal's Expanded Alignment System
    Zeal's "Creative" Build Requests
    Bubs the Commoner
    Zeal's "Minimum-Intervention" balance fix
    Feat Point System fix (in progress)

    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by JadePhoenix View Post
    sonofzeal, you're like a megazord of awesome and win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    SonOfZeal, it is a great joy to see that your Kung-Fu remains undiminished in this, the twilight of an age. May the Great Wheel be kind to you, planeswalker.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •