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  1. - Top - End - #271

    yuk Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by lothos View Post
    However we have seem that Rich does allow some variation in OOTS in spells.

    This isn't just limited to copyrighted spells like when V cast "Disjunction" in strip 636, rather than "Mordenkain's Disjunction". There are some other instances of "funny" spells, for example "Evan's forced tentacles of spiked intrusion" from strip 20. This is of course a parody of "Evard's black tentacles". The point is that I can believe Rich might allow a spell in his world that isn't part of the SRD.
    Not exactly. The first is the correct way for anyone other than WotC to call the spell. I'm no lawyer, but my understanding is that the "generic" spell names are free to be used under the OGL, while the legendary personalities who are accredited with creating the spells are copyrighted materiel and can not be used in derivative works. Or something like that. So "Disjunction" is fair game, but "Mordenkain's Disjunction" is right out.

    I think that it is either very clear that the MitD caused the escape, or that Rich is pulling a joke with a very long term windup on his readers. My money is on the former, but then I'm not one of the readers who reads "Thunk! Thunk! CRACK! Squilch" and argues endlessly until the reveal in a later strip that since we didn't see Brainy Pete's body that the NPC cleric didn't bash in his brains with a mace. The strip has great subtlety in a few places, such as with the identity of the MitD, and in all others it only takes some common sense to understand the context. Epileptic trees be damned.


    So, babies need to sleep a lot. Is it possible that the MitD becoming tired after exerting typically unused powers is like a baby becoming tired after struggling to roll over for the first time? This, if correct, would eliminate all of the "But X monster doesn't get tired after using Y power" portion of the debate. My apologies if this was covered previously. It almost has to have been, given the number and the length of all of the MitD threads.

    I wouldn't be surprised (or disappointed) to see the big reveal be something as clever as the theory Schadrach put forth for a templated Efrit granting others wishes. I would be surprised if he was exactly correct, but that's only because I would hope that the more wacky aspects of D&D monster variants such as adding templates would not be involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Firkraag View Post
    I want to add on point 5: The demons&devils were scrying, so it's not unlikely that someone else might be, as well.
    The fiends have said that they are forbidden from acting directly. They are no doubt veteran liars, but they had no need to lie to their new employee on that regard. As for "someone else", well, without being able to point to that someone you're basically saying that Rich can do anything he likes. Which is true, but Rich also seems to like writing a good story. Introducing random extras into the cast to explain things long after they have occurred is typically not an element of good story telling.
    Last edited by BillyJimBoBob; 2010-01-18 at 07:43 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by lothos View Post
    I don't think there is a single argument that in one sentence proves it's not an untemplated Tarrasque.
    Sure there is. Three words: It's too big. If you want one sentence directly from the d20 SRD:

    Quote Originally Posted by d20SRD
    The tarrasque is 70 feet long and 50 feet tall, and it weighs about 130 tons.
    So like I said, it's too big. At the very least it needs to be templated to a smaller size.

    Also, you'd need to interpret "The tarrasque cannot speak." as meaning that it actually can speak, but doesn't. Because "cannot speak" says to me that it's physically impossible for it to speak. Plus fudge the whole thing about how there's only one.
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    So my recollection of several pages of discussion from the prequel to this thread can be summarised as, whoever is responsible for "Escape", we know that:
    • It can't be dimension door or blink because those spells have pityable ranges.
    • Teleport and Greater Teleport in the standard rules require the caster to go along with the other subejcts of the spell. We have seen teleport work this way in OOTS in strip 366 and again in strip 377. Then again in strip 571 we get to see two teleports work this way. In fact there, there are two casters, presumably one divine (raise dead) and one arcane (teleport). (HEY - They could warp the gate with the crimson mantle ! :-). Then Soul Spliced V casts (presumably) Teleport in strip 649 and travels along too (though we don't actually see the spell cast, just the resultant "pop"). Finally when we see Epic Teleport in strip 643 and strip 650, even then the caster (and his spliced spirits) go along for the ride. So although it dosn't absolutely prove that Rich insists the caster *always* goes along when they Teleport, it really seems to suggest that's the way it works in OOTS, which is the standard D&D rules. So.... since we can be pretty certain "Escape" wasn't triggered by V or O-Chul, we know it can't have been teleport or greater teleport.
    • Standard 3.5 edition D&D rules say Plane Shift can be cast so that the caster does not travel along for the ride. However it also says you MUST go to another plane, not another place on the same plane and that "precise accuracy as to a particular arrival point on the intended plane is nigh impossible". Also that "creatures must find their own way back". SO given that O-Chul and V make no mention of "getting back" and have no apparent means to plane shift, how would they get back ? Also plane shift has been depicted in strip 380, strip 385 and also in strip 637. In every case it's been depicted the same way, with a kind of "window" opening. Now true, if "Escape" is plane shift in disguise, we wouldn't get to see the window open in strip 661, because we are so zoomed in on MitD eyes. However I'd expect that we would see a "window" open in strip 663 when they arrive. So given all of this, I think we can be pretty sure it's not plane shift either.
    • Wish and as mentioned a couple of posts ago the psionic ability "reality revision" are stated as being able to "Transport Travellers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions".
    • Miracle can "Move you and your allies along with your and thier gear from one plane to another through planar barriers to a specific locale with no chance of error". This seems to imply that the caster would go along too.
    • Limited Wish doesn't say anything about travelling or transportation explicitly.
    • The Epic Spell "Dreamscape" could be interpreted as providing the "Escape" capabilitiy, as proposed by Nerdanel in the Dream Larva theory. In my opinion it's possible but a bit of a stretch.


    So the only spell or spell like ability that I'm really sure from the standard D&D rules that can definitly accomplish "Escape" is Wish.

    Reality Revision seems an equally good candidate, if psionics is considered. And of course we have Redcloak's statements that I think Grey Wolf first highlighted where in strip 546 Redcloak says it took him ages to figure out if Psionics were being used in this world. Given that from S.O.D Redcloak "knows what MitD is", it seems he would know he was psionic if psionics were being used....

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    (snip)
    I suppose my argument in brief is: Xykon was too angry and too focused on killing V and O'Chul to pay attention to anything else.
    Yes. Xykon isn't that smart and doesn't really think in a tactical way. Sure, sometimes he overplays not being tactical, but I just think he is an "in the moment"... thing. Lots of emotion and little planning.

    I'm not sure if he even saw MitD perform the "Escape" (assuming he did indeed do that). His attention was very much focused on "snuffing you sickening pouches of warm goo right now".

    Quote Originally Posted by CrosisBlackwing View Post
    If it is a spell, a Spellcraft check of DC: 15+Spell Level can be made to determine what spell is being cast. (You must see or hear the verbal or somatic componets)
    My understanding is that spell like abilities do not have verbal or somatic components at all (or material ones) so I'd assume that you can't identify them when being used, unlike a spell.

    So the fact that Xykon didn't realise MitD was casting/manifesting "Escape" is because:
    • It wasn't actually MitD who did it after all and Rich has pulled off a misdirection which he will reveal later in an epic twist
    • MitD used a spell like ability to perform "Escape"
    • MitD used a psionic ability to perform "Escape"
    • Xkyon was too focused and angry to properly watch MitD's actions


    Based on all of this, I come to the rather dull conclusion that the fact that Xykon didn't go "Ahah MitD, you have betrayed me !" is no strong evidence of anything. We have no evidence to say which of these is actually the case.
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  4. - Top - End - #274
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by BillyJimBoBob View Post
    I wouldn't be surprised (or disappointed) to see the big reveal be something as clever as the theory Schadrach put forth for a templated Efrit granting others wishes. I would be surprised if he was exactly correct, but that's only because I would hope that the more wacky aspects of D&D monster variants such as adding templates would not be involved.
    Another possibility that occured to me, to avoid template stacking while retaining the "Grants wishes (it's the only spell that legitimately can do the escape without having to fudge something), but cannot grant them to itself" idea is this: polymorph any object. See http://systemreferencedocuments.org/...ny_Object.html or as quoted below:

    Polymorph Any Object
    Transmutation
    Level: Sor/Wiz 8, Trickery 8
    Components: V, S, M/DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Target: One creature, or one nonmagical object of up to 100 cu. ft./level
    Duration: See text
    Saving Throw: Fortitude negates (object); see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes (object)

    This spell functions like polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another. The duration of the spell depends on how radical a change is made from the original state to its enchanted state. The duration is determined by using the following guidelines.

    Changed Subject Is:
    Increase to Duration Factor1
    Same kingdom (animal, vegetable, mineral)
    +5
    Same class (mammals, fungi, metals, etc.)
    +2
    Same size
    +2
    Related (twig is to tree, wolf fur is to wolf, etc.)
    +2
    Same or lower Intelligence
    +2
    1 Add all that apply. Look up the total on the next table.

    Duration Factor

    Duration

    Example
    0
    20 minutes
    Pebble to human
    2
    1 hour
    Marionette to human
    4
    3 hours
    Human to marionette
    5
    12 hours
    Lizard to manticore
    6
    2 days
    Sheep to wool coat
    7
    1 week
    Shrew to manticore
    9+
    Permanent
    Manticore to shrew

    Unlike polymorph, polymorph any object does grant the creature the Intelligence score of its new form. If the original form didnít have a Wisdom or Charisma score, it gains those scores as appropriate for the new form.

    Damage taken by the new form can result in the injury or death of the polymorphed creature. In general, damage occurs when the new form is changed through physical force.

    A nonmagical object cannot be made into a magic item with this spell. Magic items arenít affected by this spell.

    This spell cannot create material of great intrinsic value, such as copper, silver, gems, silk, gold, platinum, mithral, or adamantine. It also cannot reproduce the special properties of cold iron in order to overcome the damage reduction of certain creatures.

    This spell can also be used to duplicate the effects of baleful polymorph, polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud.

    Arcane Material Component: Mercury, gum arabic, and smoke.
    Then you could work from something like an efreet (just my favorite wish-granter and can do 3/day) that's been polymorphed (since it retains spell likes and supernaturals when polymorphed and thus wish granting ability). Polymorph any object also grants the new forms Int, but not wis or cha (on the chance we're in need of a wis/cha out of lie with the given form). It can also do a pretty broad range of target form types, as well as the creatures own type.

    So the big question for the possibility of poly any object is that we'd need a target form with a 9+ duration modifier that is capable of speech, but doesn't usually speak and is not indigenous to the rainforest.

    The question being whether "SRD monster effected by SRD spell" is outside "possible to guess".
    Last edited by Schadrach; 2010-01-19 at 09:34 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    The problem with a polymorphed-creature theory is that MitD's father is similar to it, at least retaining the big appetite.
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  6. - Top - End - #276
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Firkraag View Post
    Oh, oh, I see what you did there. You are a smart one. Except he's not a forum moderator, and there's no clause against stating "I think it's a Tarrasque, no explanation given", unless I have misread the forum rules. Or have you?
    I never said he was, and I never said you were not allowed to post that you think it's a Tarrasque. I was simply stating that using arguments such as "I can post what I want because I have the right to free speech!" on a forum is just silly, because there are very clear limits on your free speech here, and they're not in violation of the First Amendment. You can post saying "I think it's a Tarrasque" because no forum rules forbid you from making that post, not because you are protected by free speech.

    Anyway, sorry for the derail. The whole free speech is just a pet peeve of mine because it's a "defense" that people often fall back on when it doesn't even apply to that situation.

    Teleport and Greater Teleport in the standard rules require the caster to go along with the other subejcts of the spell. We have seen teleport work this way in OOTS in strip 366 and again in strip 377. Then again in strip 571 we get to see two teleports work this way. In fact there, there are two casters, presumably one divine (raise dead) and one arcane (teleport). (HEY - They could warp the gate with the crimson mantle ! :-). Then Soul Spliced V casts (presumably) Teleport in strip 649 and travels along too (though we don't actually see the spell cast, just the resultant "pop"). Finally when we see Epic Teleport in strip 643 and strip 650, even then the caster (and his spliced spirits) go along for the ride. So although it dosn't absolutely prove that Rich insists the caster *always* goes along when they Teleport, it really seems to suggest that's the way it works in OOTS, which is the standard D&D rules. So.... since we can be pretty certain "Escape" wasn't triggered by V or O-Chul, we know it can't have been teleport or greater teleport.
    Does Dimensional Anchor prevent casting teleport outright, or does it simply prevent the caster from coming along? The way the OP has it worded, it seems like it's the latter, in which case it's plausible at least. RC knows what the mitd is, and has generally good knowledge of the D&D ruleset, if he knows mitd has the ability to teleport, it seems reasonable he'd put the mitd in a box with dimensional anchor on it.

    Of the options in abilities, Wish seems to best describe the events. Mitd is generally unaware of his own abilities, so if he had wish as a supernatural or spell-like ability, he'd probably end up accidentally using it up all the time. This would explain why he seems to expect wishes to come true sometimes (although that could easily be explained in other ways too). Still, since mitd being disappointed by the fact that his wish didn't come true was just random background conversation, not part of the punchline of the comic or really anything else, it seems very plausible that this was a hint at mitd's ability to perform wish.

    The one thing I don't consider very plausible is spell levels. It'd obviously have to be something like sorcerer, a class that does not need to prepare it's spells and that acquires it's abilities automatically rather than by studying (since studying and memorizing spells would require mitd having knowledge of his ability to cast spells, and he generally knows little about his own abilities). The problem with sorcerer levels is that he'd have so many other spells as well, and the ability to cast wish every day (possibly multiple times per day). It seems highly unlikely he has that many wishes available, because he would probably burn through all his 9th spell slots every day just on wishes otherwise. On top of that, he'd more than likely end up accidentally casting so many of the other spells he would have available if he can cast 9th level spells. Especially spells that would illuminate him, or otherwise remove the darkness around him, since he's dislikes constantly being in the darkness.

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    As shown at the start of SoD, Xykon accidentally casts sorcerer spells before he learns to control it. If mitd has sorcerer levels, I don't see why it would be any different.


    One thing I don't recall reading in the OP is the destination. Teleport, dimension shift, or most of those type of spells require a clear destination which the caster needs to specify. Now O'Chul and V went to the perfect location for what they needed. I don't see how there is any way mitd would know where to drop them off. Even if Xykon had been scrying on the location of the SG fleet (unlikely since it would just bore him) and mitd actually paid attention to remember that, the fleet moved shortly before the escape. This would rule out any kind of teleportation effects that requires the caster to know a location to send them to, whereas this would not be a problem for wish since it can easily be ruled that wishing they would escape to safety would cause the wish to send the targets to the location they want to be at.
    Last edited by Morthis; 2010-01-19 at 10:36 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #277
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    I'm back to thinking MiTD is some sort of Cthulhu junior. (j/k - or not?)

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Yay, my crazy spaz theory has support!
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Morthis View Post
    Does Dimensional Anchor prevent casting teleport outright, or does it simply prevent the caster from coming along? The way the OP has it worded, it seems like it's the latter, in which case it's plausible at least. RC knows what the mitd is, and has generally good knowledge of the D&D ruleset, if he knows mitd has the ability to teleport, it seems reasonable he'd put the mitd in a box with dimensional anchor on it.
    Possible if the box is enchanted with a dimensional anchor effect on the contents. He'd still need to touch V and O'Chul to teleport them though, barring the use of gate, teleportation circle, or wish all the other teleport-type spells have that requirement, while Gate and Teleportation circle have slightly different logistic issues (gate has the same problem as plane shift of requiring to go to another plane as well as opening a physical hole in reality that would have been recognizable, teleportation circle is drawn by the caster where he is and has a longer casting time).

    Quote Originally Posted by Morthis View Post
    Of the options in abilities, Wish seems to best describe the events. Mitd is generally unaware of his own abilities, so if he had wish as a supernatural or spell-like ability, he'd probably end up accidentally using it up all the time. This would explain why he seems to expect wishes to come true sometimes (although that could easily be explained in other ways too). Still, since mitd being disappointed by the fact that his wish didn't come true was just random background conversation, not part of the punchline of the comic or really anything else, it seems very plausible that this was a hint at mitd's ability to perform wish.

    The one thing I don't consider very plausible is spell levels. It'd obviously have to be something like sorcerer, a class that does not need to prepare it's spells and that acquires it's abilities automatically rather than by studying (since studying and memorizing spells would require mitd having knowledge of his ability to cast spells, and he generally knows little about his own abilities). The problem with sorcerer levels is that he'd have so many other spells as well, and the ability to cast wish every day (possibly multiple times per day). It seems highly unlikely he has that many wishes available, because he would probably burn through all his 9th spell slots every day just on wishes otherwise. On top of that, he'd more than likely end up accidentally casting so many of the other spells he would have available if he can cast 9th level spells. Especially spells that would illuminate him, or otherwise remove the darkness around him, since he's dislikes constantly being in the darkness.
    Other problem with actual spellcasting is that wish has an XP component which would place a bound on his ability to use it (unless he's long since had the XP to be massively epic and simply refused to level at some point, since he likely hasn't gained much XP since start of comic). Spell-like and supernatural abilities have no components unless so noted in their descriptions, which makes frequent use more possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morthis View Post
    One thing I don't recall reading in the OP is the destination. Teleport, dimension shift, or most of those type of spells require a clear destination which the caster needs to specify. Now O'Chul and V went to the perfect location for what they needed. I don't see how there is any way mitd would know where to drop them off. Even if Xykon had been scrying on the location of the SG fleet (unlikely since it would just bore him) and mitd actually paid attention to remember that, the fleet moved shortly before the escape. This would rule out any kind of teleportation effects that requires the caster to know a location to send them to, whereas this would not be a problem for wish since it can easily be ruled that wishing they would escape to safety would cause the wish to send the targets to the location they want to be at.
    Yeah, wish could reasonably do that "vaguely described" kind of teleport. Wishing them to be "with their friends" or "with the people that left the city", or even "somewhere safe" (after a smack from the plot stick).

    Off question, since I suck at researching the comic: When RC said he "knew what MitD was" had we seen him in a position where RC and/or Xykon could have seen MitD through true seeing or any other effect that would bypass both the darkness and any illusions and/or polymorphs? It would be a reason for RC to *know* what he is (which sounds like that should be a surprise, and not something we'd assume), and Xykon's comment about nothing in the tower being scarier than he is, or at least *should be*, while leaving room for things like the goblins poking fun at him, etc.

  10. - Top - End - #280
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Schadrach View Post
    He'd still need to touch V and O'Chul to teleport them though
    Note that there are several examples of teleportation in the comic where the caster is not touching the rest of the people being teleported, so it is very arguable that Rich is ignoring that particular requirement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schadrach View Post
    Off question, since I suck at researching the comic: When RC said he "knew what MitD was" had we seen him in a position where RC and/or Xykon could have seen MitD through true seeing or any other effect that would bypass both the darkness and any illusions and/or polymorphs? It would be a reason for RC to *know* what he is (which sounds like that should be a surprise, and not something we'd assume), and Xykon's comment about nothing in the tower being scarier than he is, or at least *should be*, while leaving room for things like the goblins poking fun at him, etc.
    RC had seen him in the circus, during MitD's "act". There were no spells cast of any kind, but we cannot really discard that the cloak gives RC some permanent true-seeing abilities. Neither can we discard that RC is wrong about what MitD is, for that matter.

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    but we cannot really discard that the cloak gives RC some permanent true-seeing abilities.
    If memory serves, Redcloak had to cast True Seeing manually to see the Soul Splices.

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Guys, interesting little tidbit I found, MitD says here that he's sitting under the umbrella. He's the same height as he always is, even when he's walking. Think he's floating in some way everywhere?

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by silversaraph View Post
    Guys, interesting little tidbit I found, MitD says here that he's sitting under the umbrella. He's the same height as he always is, even when he's walking. Think he's floating in some way everywhere?
    No, becuase he has tracks. sitting is not literal, in this case.

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Schadrach View Post
    Other problem with actual spellcasting is that wish has an XP component which would place a bound on his ability to use it (unless he's long since had the XP to be massively epic and simply refused to level at some point, since he likely hasn't gained much XP since start of comic). Spell-like and supernatural abilities have no components unless so noted in their descriptions, which makes frequent use more possible.
    That's true, just because mitd is powerful does not mean it's high level, and maybe it has no exp to spend. Still, that doesn't explain the other spells he would very likely cast by accident if he had spell levels.

    Yeah, wish could reasonably do that "vaguely described" kind of teleport. Wishing them to be "with their friends" or "with the people that left the city", or even "somewhere safe" (after a smack from the plot stick).
    Yeah, this is maybe by biggest issue atm. Spells like teleport would need some serious plot power to suddenly drop the two of them off at the right location given that mitd has no real way of knowing where that is. Especially with the new comic now indicating mitd doesn't really know where he sent them. If he had used a spell like teleport, he would have to have known the destination, and there wouldn't be a question.

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    The non-Greater Teleport can transport to a place the caster has never seen. In fact, that is almost guaranteed to happen when the caster tries to teleport to a place that doesn't actually exist.

    So, for example, the MitD casts (Psionic) Teleport while imagining a safe place where O-chul can be with his friends. The place doesn't actually exist, and so the spell rolls 1d20+80 on the False Destination row. The result of the roll is 81 - 92 for Similar Area, so V and O-chul take no damage when they end up in location that is thematically or visually similar to the one the MitD was imagining.

    Now that I think of it, a non-Greater maybe-Psionic Teleport sounds like a very good explanation...
    Last edited by Nerdanel; 2010-01-19 at 07:27 PM.

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    uh, has anyone seen strip 147?

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Acero View Post
    uh, has anyone seen strip 147?
    I suggest you say what you wish to bring up from strip #147, instead of proceeding as though anyone who looks at it will immediately know, because while the creature in the darkness is in that strip, I can't tell what point you're trying to make from it, and I'd rather not guess.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  18. - Top - End - #288
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Acero View Post
    uh, has anyone seen strip 147?
    Yes, multiple times. What about it? Size of MitD? Magical Darkness Umbrella? Something new?

    Grey Wolf
    Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.
    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    then can someone explain how the MitD is spread out on a flat surface? it's not the mouth of the cave; its too small

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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    It's the mouth of the cave.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant
    Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes, characters that have a similar hairstyle just have a similar hairstyle. How many hairstyles do you think there are that can be drawn in stick figure style, anyway?

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Shale View Post
    It's the mouth of the cave.
    then why is RC taller than it when he's been walking in normal posture for the rest of the strip?

    plus, the mouth would touch the ground

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    Beholder

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    There is a slope up to the mouth of the cave. When Redcloak walks out, he is on ground level. The MitD is at Cave floor level, which is below Ground level.

    And Redcloak, being the awesome goblin cleric is up here__________
    So the bottom of the cave is down here... (MitD)..... /
    ____________________________________________/

  23. - Top - End - #293
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Ok, I am going to advance a theory regarding what I thing the Mitd actually is. Before I do let me review a few things. The author has stated that he has been dropping hints about what it is. We have been putting forth ideas and testing them against what we have observed or at least what we think is relevant. Seeing something missing doesnt necessarily mean we can discount an idea based on it being missing. Certain story elements always come first (rule of plot/rule of funny). The author has changed the Mitd to fit his story. The most obvious changes come in the fact that it can talk and its childlike personality. This may allow us to overlook certain things that might cause us to rule something out.
    With that said I am going to state what I think it is and why. Its actually something that has already been discussed. I got the idea from the first post as I was rereading it to figure this mystery out. I had never heard of it before but examining it seems to be the best fit.

    I think that it is:
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    Hagunemnon (Protean):

    Listed as a one off idea, when I went through everything this is what seemed to be the best fit. In addition to the Pros listed I would add that its epic and therefore Xykon would consider it scary. It also has a slam ability that could possibly work for "stomp".

    In reagards to the cons let start with the psionics issues. The leading reason for discounting psionics is that Redcloak (who knows what it is) stated that it took him a long time to figure out that they were using psionics in this campaign. However we have already seen an Illithid and Roy's mother read him a book as a child called "the little psion that could". In campaigns I have been in that didn't use psionics (I never did like psionics but...) monsters like the Illithids could still be used by simply using the effects of what their psionics were doing. This was allowed even though the PCs were not allowed to have it.
    A second point to Redcloak knowing what it is but not knowing about psionics could be that when you make a knowledge check in 3.5 you get more information the higher you roll. He might have had enough of a Knowledge(the Planes?) score to recognize it as an epic planar creature but not enough to know about its psionic abilities. Note also that this could be why the wizard at the circus didnt recognize it (he had Knowledge (Arcana) and needed knowledge(the planes)).
    The second issue with psionics is that the listed abilities for the Hagunemnon don't quite work for the teleport just right. Plane shift doesn't quite work for Escape. The author has shown a willingness to tweak the rules before. By RAW you can't actually summon a titanium elemental. So if the Mitd had different psionic powers (there is a psionic teleport other, alter reality works too) it would still be possible.

    The larger issue is actually its ability to be charmed by Xykon. It has Iron will as a feat, a Wisdom score of 23, and a will save of +32. It can also detect thoughts at will. Fortunately I think we can discount all of this due to the childlike personality that we have discussed before. If this creature is a child of this species the will save and wisdom scores might be greatly reduced. Likewise that explains why its not aware (or now just becoming aware) of its powers. Rule of plot trumps the written rulebooks.

    Last edited by Barlen; 2010-01-19 at 09:08 PM.

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    tongue Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    In the hopes of beating everyone else to it:

    Note that MitD has what appears to be an instinctive Spellcraft roll. If he can tell "half a ritual" before Tsukiko could.

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Hey, so can someone remind me why nobody thinks MitD could be human? Or Elf/half-orc/whatever?

    Ah, nevermind. It makes SoD canon look a bit odd, that's why.
    Last edited by Azukar; 2010-01-19 at 10:50 PM.
    --

    Meta Knight avatar courtesy of Connor DarkDart.

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    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    I know that the color of his speech balloons and the consumption of stew probably already decided this, but this strip really seems to nail shut any possibility of the MitD being undead. He would react differently to Tsukiko's theory if he himself were undead.
    Congratulations, you can link to TV Tropes. This does not mean you have special insight into the storytelling process, much less the author's mind. Stories don't need to fit into neat boxes, you know.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Spod has it right.
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    You not reading the comic isn't going to make this comic any less awesome for all the rest of us.

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by SavageWombat View Post
    In the hopes of beating everyone else to it:

    Note that MitD has what appears to be an instinctive Spellcraft roll. If he can tell "half a ritual" before Tsukiko could.
    Yep. Not only an instinctive roll, but a damn good one. The DC to instantly analyze an incomplete epic arcane ritual would have to be off the charts.

    EDIT: Or, he just granted Tsukiko's wish.
    Last edited by Shale; 2010-01-19 at 11:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant
    Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes, characters that have a similar hairstyle just have a similar hairstyle. How many hairstyles do you think there are that can be drawn in stick figure style, anyway?

  28. - Top - End - #298
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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Out of curiosity ... people have been trying to pin down the MiTD's WIS and INT score, given his various reactions. What if the problem is an abysmally low CHA score?

    At the beginning, MiTD has no force of personality. He is easily led. He is told what to do, and does it; he is told he's stupid, and he believes it ó but he's not, not really. Is this a low CHA?

  29. - Top - End - #299
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Quote Originally Posted by Fish View Post
    Out of curiosity ... people have been trying to pin down the MiTD's WIS and INT score, given his various reactions. What if the problem is an abysmally low CHA score?

    At the beginning, MiTD has no force of personality. He is easily led. He is told what to do, and does it; he is told he's stupid, and he believes it ó but he's not, not really. Is this a low CHA?
    I wouldn't think so, I mean Elan has a high CHA, and he's easily led, and seems to understand that he's not smart,

    I dunno, I'm not exactly 100% on what charisma does in terms of receiving leadership, if that makes sense...
    There's now one less gnome for the Resistance to fight, right?
    The Resistance isn't at war with the gnome!!!
    Well of course not, not anymore. He's dead.

  30. - Top - End - #300
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    GnomePirate

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    Default Re: MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

    Charisma means different things in different characters. Elan's 18 CHA shows partly as physical attractiveness, while Xykon's 25+ CHA....doesn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant
    Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes, characters that have a similar hairstyle just have a similar hairstyle. How many hairstyles do you think there are that can be drawn in stick figure style, anyway?

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