MitD II: Lighting a candle in the Darkness

[Selene]

I assumed it because you were expecting it to be relevant - without you telling me why it is important, I had to assume a reason. It seems I didn't get the reason you wanted, sorry.

You could have just asked for clarification. There's no need to snap. Again.

[the larva mage]

not sure if these have been mentioned, but:
a formian-
pros-they have one big yellow eye and one little yellow eye, and the big eye is able to cast magic (kind of). they are also lazy, own high qulatiy (almost like art) weapons and armour, but are incredibly ugly. they also are strong. home habitat is the caves of the underdark.
cons- dont realy have the ability to teleaport people, and are not that strong. they can also speak, but only elven, not common.

a grey slaad-
pros-also know as a rift slaad, can teleport people both within a plane and between planes.
cons-so-so strenght.

gnoll-
pro-they have yellow eyes.
con-about as likely as belkor getting into lawfull good heaven.

Yuan-ti anathema-
pro-very strong, made up of an algamation of living snakes and the MitD finds co-ordinating his body to pull things difficult. also, any attacks would hit an individual snake, and may not be noticed by him. can change size. all anathema are striken with maddness, so they are (usally) unable to speak. will leave unusuall tracks.
con-they are all blood-frenzy mad, but maybe this shows itself as immaturity instead. if not mad, then this may explain why he is unusall, but it was Zerhi who cursed them, so unlikely. they also come from jungles, and MitD was found in one, but he wasn't supposed to. more than likely copy-righted anyway.

the formian is curently my favouret (well, a death titan was at first but then i looked at the eviednce more closely).

[DarklingPerhaps]

Um... The eyes and their color probably aren't a clue at all. And the different sizes is just the way he draws all eyes.

[feltex]

Never heard of it. Can I have a link to its stats, or at least to an explanation page?
Grey Wolf

Here are the 1st ed. stats on Dao I posted a few months ago.....

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showt...61#post7171661

Intelligence: Low to Very
Alignment: neutral evil

Their magical abilities enable them to use any of the following spell-like powers, 1 at a time, once each per day:change self, detect good, detect magic, assume gaseous form, become invisible. fulfill another's limited wish (in a perverse way), cause misdirection, passwall, create a spectral force, create a wall of stone. Dao can turn rock to mud 3 times per day and use dig as often as 6 times per day. Dao perform at the 18th level of spell use.

[Sky_Schemer]

I went back through SoD today and one thing that jumped out was the name of the circus, which is "Ding-a-ling Brother's Anachronistic Circus". I have a hard time believing that the term "Anachronistic" is meant as a throw-away joke, or just an excuse for the flying elephant and Batman & Robin jokes later on. My suspicion is that the MitD, much like the other creatures there, doesn't "fit" in the D&D world.

[Shpadoinkle]

In that case I'm going back to my idea of it being a heffalump

[Darklord Bright]

MitD is the flying spaghetti monster.

[Forbiddenwar]

I went back through SoD today and one thing that jumped out was the name of the circus, which is "Ding-a-ling Brother's Anachronistic Circus". I have a hard time believing that the term "Anachronistic" is meant as a throw-away joke, or just an excuse for the flying elephant and Batman & Robin jokes later on. My suspicion is that the MitD, much like the other creatures there, doesn't "fit" in the D&D world.

The circus is anachronistic because circuses don't fit in the middle ages (D&D). That is all.

[Selene]

I'm back to baby Cthulhu.

[ScottishDragon]

In that case I'm going back to my idea of it being a heffalump

It's obviously a jagular.

[Sky_Schemer]

The circus is anachronistic because circuses don't fit in the middle ages (D&D). That is all.

Circuses date back to ancient Rome, though what we'd recognize as a circus is more 18th century. Still, the larger point is that the "creatures" in the circus in SoD are also anachronistic, so I think there's more to it than just a circus possibly being out of place. It is a circus that may be out of place filled with creatures that are definitely out of place.

[the larva mage]

Um... The eyes and their color probably aren't a clue at all. And the different sizes is just the way he draws all eyes.

yet some people think his challenge rating is a clue. that confused me. surly you can just scale the monster up in power? or is that just 4e?


edit: just been archive surfing, and in #97, the MitD says "its not my fault i cant see anything in this darkness" so he has normal vison, not low-light or dark. intersting.

[Kish]

yet some people think his challenge rating is a clue. that confused me. surly you can just scale the monster up in power? or is that just 4e?

Given that everyone who knows what he is also knows he's epic-level (which doesn't mean the same thing it does in 4ed either)..."it's just 4e" is close enough.

And nothing ever indicates the creature in the darkness is unusually powerful for a whatever-he-is.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

And nothing ever indicates the creature in the darkness is unusually powerful for a whatever-he-is.

Indeed, a case can be done he is actually less powerful than one would expect, from Xykon's comment before the tower (paraphrased) that nothing in the tower is scarier than MitD is... or rather than he should be.

Indeed, the idea he is a youngling is very much supported by that, amongst other clues.

Edit:

edit: just been archive surfing, and in #97, the MitD says "its not my fault i cant see anything in this darkness" so he has normal vison, not low-light or dark. intersting.

Unfortunately, we know it to be magical darkness, and thus tells us very little about his visual abilities.

Grey Wolf

[ZerglingOne]

He's some form of Domo-kun. Like Domo with the ability to teleport others.

Evidence: Domo's favorite food is stew, Domo cannot speak, "Domo's expression is "a sort of cheery wonderment. Like when a kid wakes to a room full of presents on Christmas day." <-wiki, he certainly is strange looking, lives in a cave and as such seeing him in a jungle would be odd...

Yeah I'm reaching, but the first 2 points of evidence are strangely compelling to me.

edit: hah, I found more evidence, http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0651.html Explosive farts. Domo has them as well...

[Nerdanel]

On the contrary, I think the MitD needs to be able to sense his surroundings in magical darkness to function in life. Therefore his claim of not seeing anything must either be disregarded as a weak lie or considered to mean the difference between him experiencing the world in black and white as opposed to color. Something like Blindsense doesn't cut it, since the MitD needs to be able to distinguish between black and white Go pieces.

Just compare the MitD's daily life to how the OOTS coped with the magical darkness in the lair of the Mama Black Dragon.

[Forbiddenwar]

Something like Blindsense doesn't cut it, since the MitD needs to be able to distinguish between black and white Go pieces.

He wasn't it darkness then, just in a box. So blindsense could still be an option.

[Adumbration]

Could it be that MitD has some sort of Hide in Plain sight? Even without the umbrella - and, apparently the darkness - the only parts visible of him are his eyes.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

He's some form of Domo-kun. Like Domo with the ability to teleport others.

Trademarked, I assume?

I don't know if this has been mentioned but in frame 4 of 701 the umbrella has clearly bet set on the floor. MitD seems to have to set the umbrella down to pull on the rope.

Yes, it has been mentioned, starting here. What conclusion do you draw from it?

Could it be that MitD has some sort of Hide in Plain sight? Even without the umbrella - and, apparently the darkness - the only parts visible of him are his eyes.

While he was no longer using the umbrella, MitD is still in shadows in 701. I don't think Xykon allows him to leave shadows, so he can only drop the umbrella if there are shadows present to hide in.

In any case, since this is Rich's style, I'm fairly certain that we only see his eyes because Rich does not want to give any clues.

Grey Wolf

[Nimrod's Son]

Circuses date back to ancient Rome, though what we'd recognize as a circus is more 18th century. Still, the larger point is that the "creatures" in the circus in SoD are also anachronistic, so I think there's more to it than just a circus possibly being out of place. It is a circus that may be out of place filled with creatures that are definitely out of place.

As Forbiddenwar said, it is the circus itself that is the anachronism, not the attractions therein.

Freakshow, complete with bearded lady? Trapeze artists? Sword-swallower? Performing elephants and poodles? Clowns? Contortionist? Test-your-strength machine? Cotton candy? These are all things I'd expect to see at a circus, and they're all present here. I've got no idea where you came up with the notion that the attractions in the circus are somehow out of place. Hell, if manticores actually existed, I expect real-life circuses would have them, too.

[Selene]

Agreed. And remember that "anachronistic" means something is out of time, not out of place. The polar bears in the jungle on Lost are not anachronistic. Now if they had been saber-tooth tigers...

[Lord Bingo]

I was thinking, is there any chance MitD could be a Shadow Dragon.

Pro's
1) It can create supernatural darkness which can only be penetrated by a daylight spell.
2) It can cast Dimension Door as a supernatural ability once per day.
3) Its size is Large as a young adult and adult, and Medium if it is juvenile.
4) It has damage resistance 5 when it becomes a young adult.
5) It has an energy breath weapon -I don't know if it is relevant.
6) It's Shadowy and gets 9/10ths concealment from this....

Con's
1) Not incredibly strong
2) I can't really account for the stomp...
3) -also, we've never seen him fly

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I was thinking, is there any chance MitD could be a Shadow Dragon.

Pro's
1) It can create supernatural darkness which can only be penetrated by a daylight spell.

If he could create its own darkness, he wouldn't have needed the umbrella, only an order from Xykon.

Grey Wolf

[Lord Bingo]

To disappear into darkness the Shadow dragon needs a lighting condition other than a full daylight equivalent, so it would need some shadow -hence the umbrella.

A shadow dragon is both clever and wise. It is into trickery and can cast cleric spells as arcane spells.

Also they belong underground and would not normally be encountered in a jungle.

They have high charisma and cause fear, which would account for reactions of both wonder and fear.

[Forbiddenwar]

Re: shadow dragon

Could you cite which source book it is in so we too can see it.

Is "dimension door" a pro or a con? Dimension door doesn't help or hurt your case.

Can cast Cleric spells? Which means they can animate dead. Which means the possibility of MitD being a Shadow dragon is close to nil.

[ScottishDragon]

To disappear into darkness the Shadow dragon needs a lighting condition other than a full daylight equivalent, so it would need some shadow -hence the umbrella.

A shadow dragon is both clever and wise. It is into trickery and can cast cleric spells as arcane spells.

Also they belong underground and would not normally be encountered in a jungle.

They have high charisma and cause fear, which would account for reactions of both wonder and fear.

Mitd doesn't know any magic,so no cleric or arcane spells.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Mitd doesn't know any magic,so no cleric or arcane spells.

Actually, that only tells us that he has been told he hasn't got enough intelligence for INT-based spellcasting. Things like CHA-based spells (say, sorcerer) are still in the works. As for cleric, this almost certainly discards it.

Grey Wolf

[averagejoe]

As for cleric, this almost certainly discards it.

Grey Wolf

Unless I'm missing something, this would seem to indicate only that MitD doesn't have cleric levels. This in and of itself doesn't rule our the creature that MitD is getting cleric spells as part of its advancement, a la solars and astral devas. I seem to remember someone saying somewhere that MitD has high(ish, or at least average) int and low wis, but also that his wis might just be low because he's a child (and thus too low to cast the spells.) Also, a strict reading of that strip just means that MitD can't cast Raise Dead, not that he can't cast cleric spells at all. Other possibilities occur to me, with varying probability. MitD's creature type can cast cleric spells, but MitD doesn't know how to cast them. (Somewhat supported by the fact that he thinks he can, but a major drawback is that there has been no hint of this.) Also, it's possible that he can cast Raise Dead, and RC just didn't believe him. (Unlikely enough that the only reason I posted it is for the sake of completeness.)

Anyways, this isn't a defense of the shadow dragon, as I don't know its statistics. This was purely an analysis of the content in that strip. I'm fully prepared to admit that there may be something I'm forgetting that would contradict this.

[Lord Bingo]

I'm sorry. I should of course have mentioned that the Shadow Dragon is from Monsters of Faerun. It is probably true, though, that the idea that MitD is a shadow dragon won't fly.

[DavidBV]

I think we all are on the wrong track. We're looking for creatures capable of teleporting, or spellcasting; with high Spellcraft, even I myself proposed prismatic dragon. Usually the wish/escape whatever is the bottleneck that leaves out most of the Monster Manual. Not to mention how hard it is to find a monster with such a high STR that fits under an umbrella...

However, Xykon and Redcloak don't seem to believe MiTD is capable of anything but "eating enemies", not a good choice of words for a spellcaster monster. He has been asked to eat the PCs, to eat a certain hypotetical traitor(SoD) and to eat babies. He hasn't been ever been asked to cast a spell, or use other powers, which in the case of Wish, certainly could provide a huge tactical advantage. Xykon doesn't suspect he teleported O-Chul, but he certainly would if we were talking about a monster that can cast spells or have spell-like abilities. Also he asks Tsukiko to check on a ritual, certainly if he knew the base race of MiTD has a huge Spellcraft skill, he could have asked him to help too.

If we add the fact that the base creature is not suposed to speak (SoD), we must come to the only possible conclusion: the base creature is just a physically powerful monster, which rarely talks, and has a huge mouth with which it often eats its enemies. It must NOT be inmune to being charmed (SoD). Other than that, a high Str is the only needed thing. Maybe a young Bulette (just out of my head as example, not a serious proposal).

So why can MiTD do "Escape" or "Wish", or why does it have more spellcraft than Tsukiko? How can it have a 32+ str which barely any creature of that size posseses?

Here's where Rich words come to aid:

the line between something I made up and something someone else made up is a pretty fine one.

The way I understand this, MiTD is a creature not literally taken from any book, but modified, enhanced, for a reason related to the main plot. This other sentence also seems to support this:

Once I started developing the real story that I was telling, around strip #100, I figured out what the monster really was

Why exactly then? and why mentioning that he figured it out when he developed the story? IMHO, because MiTD has a place in that background story, and what makes him a special creature of his race must be linked to the main plot. Snarl Jr. has been proposed before, and I don't think that's possible at all, but now we have learned that the Snarl may not even exist (there is a world where the Snarl should be) so the possibilities are open. In fact, too open to even start guessing until we know more of what's behind the gates.